Friend terminating pregnancy

[Rachey1969]

I'm really down about this - I'd be interested in some different points of view. My best friend and I are both 9 wks pregnant. There ends the similarities. I have 3 other kids, this is her first, she is very independent minded/ body concious, I'm less so. My dp is supportive, hers wanted the baby but has issues... he's also unemployed and broke. She has no family locally, her mum lives in France. The timing of us both being pregnant is partly because we both talked about it in general terms and partly luck/coincidence. We've both been feeling awful but I know it will pass and what's coming next - she feels fat, sick, miserable and depressed. This is compounded by a pre-existing gastric problem which has been made worse. She doubts she even wants kids at all. Her dp thinks she is making it all up (symptoms and probably the pregnancy as well!). When she talked about termination with him, all he could say was 'at least we could have sex then!'. Bastard! Now after GP was unsympathetic to her symptoms/feelings she has had a referral for a termination. I am quite upset by this (NOT because I disapprove but because I think she is making a mistake) she could have to wait up to 4 wks on the NHS - she'd be 13 wks by then and have to have an operation and all that entails. I'm hoping she will feel better. I'm feeling like a know it all at the moment re pregnancy - I think it will be hard for seeing me pregnant/giving birth/having a baby etc when she should have been. Argh! It's such a mess, any suggestions? She's not really a talker, I don't think she would want to discuss it with a stranger.

[gothicmama]

could you talk to her, listen to why she wants teh termination talk about how you are worried about how she wil feel when you have teh baby reassure her taht she will not be alone is there another GP or midwife you could go withher to who would be more sympathatic towards her symptoms- not really sure perhaps she is feeling scared and alone and fearful of the effect her prg is having on her relationship

[dyzzidi]

Is she generally unhappy or has the pregnancy made her depressed.

Maybe its her DP she should be doubting not the PG.

Sorry I amshort on advice but feel for you when you are PG you become very sensitive to other pregnant women and abortions are usually a very very difficult situation.

[koalabear]

difficult situation

why is she pregnant if she "doubts she even wants kids at all"? isn't this a discussion you have before trying for a child?

in any case, that's by the by

she needs to make up her own mind - i would just be there for her without giving an opinion - ask questions that she can answer without judement or response from you, such as "how do you feel about ....?" "what are you concerned about?" "why do you feel xxx?" - just nod in response - she will need you as a friend after even more than before

[GeorgieM]

Is there any way that your dp coud have a word with her dp and make him see that he's being a completely uncaring so and so? Your dp first time dad right? Maybe they can share worries together over a beer? Could you also get her on her own and have a really good chat to her? Tell her your concerns for her, but be sympathetic to her worries? Maybe eve share some stories about your previous pg's. Could you show her MN? Let her see that there's a great support network here? I guess the thing is at the end of the day she has to make up her own mind. All you can do is present the information that you have to hand (great things about being pg, having kids, watching then grwo up etc) to her in a guilt-free way....and be there for her whatever she decides.

[Rachey1969]

Thanks for your views! I think you hit the nail on the head there gothicmama - she's terrified of ending up on her own with a baby. SHe wasn't depressed before pregnancy - I don't think she knows what's hit her and the awfulness of early symptoms combined with stomach problems. She did want to get pregnant but I think she's amazed it happened first time ( perhaps she would have changed her mind next month). Her dp has massive issues (I wouldn't know where to start) - massive insecurity/jealousy (some of it justified in his past) frankly the guy needs therapy and I don't why she ever thought she could 'save' him. I wish she would tell his family because I think they would be supportive. I really don't want to talk her out of it - it has to be her decision - as my dp says - why can't he just tell her he loves her whatever (which he does - he just says stupid things) and that he wants this baby (which he does but I don't think he feels he deserves it) and that he won't leave her! He very closed, private person, my dp could only talk to him in such a personal way over a (few) pints but I don't want it to look like we're interfering. I am seeing her tomorrow (she does usually feel better when we talk but I don't want to be earth mother know it all!). She loves my kids and is great with them but I think she doubts her maternal instinct (and his!).

By the way I can't show her MN now!

[squirrel3]

Could you show her/tell her about my experience?

She must think very long and hard before she makes any decision, an abortion is so hard to come to terms with, nine years ago I was violently assaulted and raped and was so traumatised by the assault I waited a week before I sought any kind of help. I was covered in bruises, had two broken ribs and they discovered that I was pregnant. I couldn?t go through with the pregnancy and had an abortion. Immediately afterwards I felt relieved that it was all over and I thought I could just put it out of my mind and get on with my life.

But I couldn?t do it, I was dealing with the rape, but the thoughts of the child and the decision I had made were effecting me so badly, around the time the child would have been born I had to have counselling to deal with the guilt I was feeling, I was put on anti-depressants and it was a long hard struggle to forgive myself, its still hard now nine years on.

If she have an abortion is she going to be able to come to terms with it?

She needs to have counselling about this before not after it has happened. I?m sorry if I have made you feel worse in any way, it is not my intention. I think she already knows how hard any decision is going to be, I just wanted her to know that in my experience (despite the way I became pregnant) an abortion was the hardest thing I have ever had to come to terms with.

[Weatherwax]

You could always ask mumsnet to delete this thread and then tell her about mumsnet

[motherinferior]

Rachey, are you sure that she does, on some level, want to go through with the pregnancy?

[Rachey1969]

Oh squirrel - how awful for you I am worried about her future mental health because I don't think she is making this decision in her right mind. I'm finding it hard to understand how you can change your mind about a planned pregnancy when nothing really has changed - they are both the same people -it's her perception of the situation that's changed. I don't really know how their relationship would survive a termination anyway. I honestly think it would screw him up more and that he might hate her for it. I really hope she feels physically better before it happens. Such a mess...

[Rachey1969]

Motherinferior - I'm honestly not sure - but they talked about it beforehand and I talked about it with her beforehand, it wasn't an accidental conception. This is now or never with her, if she doesn't go through with it, she will never have any more, I'm sure. (she's 34 btw)

[motherinferior]

Is it really (34 isn't actually that late for a pregnancy)? You know her, I don't...but I do know suddenly realising the reality of prospective parenthood is a rather nasty shock for some of us, and that may be what's changing her mind.

You know her, I don't. And I may be talking rubbish, I usually am.

[Rachey1969]

No, you're right it's not old, it's more what she thinks - but she has had one previous long term relationship and I think she feels that because they didn't do it then, she'll never do it. I can't pretend to her that it's not a nasty shock!

[Rachey1969]

Ok, that's a thought but she's not really a great talker in the same way I am.

[squirrel3]

It sounds like she's just scared, I really hope that she doesn't make a huge mistake. She needs lots of reasurance and as I've said counselling before she does anything, please urge her to seek some. She needs to talk, talk and talk some more before making a decision.

Has she thought how she will feel when your child is born if she goes through with the abortion?

I really wish the very best for her and it must be so hard for you being pregnant yourself.

[Rachey1969]

Yes, I agree Squirrel - I hope she talks to her mum (in France) - I think it's difficult for her to open up. Will try to persuade her to talk to a helpline or something. I think the (22 yr old) GP who referred her did a crap job - she obviously didn't counsel her. I don't like to go on about my baby too much - I did tell her to push for a scan cos it might make it really come home to them both. They'll scan her before a termination though won't they? (or is that only for pre 9 wks medical terminations?) That will be hard.

[assumedname]

I don't think you should push her either way, just be supportive and listen to what she wants.

[Prufrock]

Rachey - I do think this is her decision, and teh best thing you can do is to support her whichever decision she makes, but the fact it is a planned pregnancy does make me think he may be making the decision because of how crappy she feels now, and might regret it when she is not so hormonal.

Rhubarb's site here has some info on antenatal depression which you might find useful to pass onto her.

I had terrible pregnancies, and both times I considerd terminating because I didn't know if I could cope with 9 months of feeling like I did. Both were completely planned, I had the full support of a wonderful dh, but with ds I even got as far as booking a GP appointment to discuss it before DH persuaded me I would cope (though even he doesn't know how close I was). Now I know I made the right decision, but in teh fog of early pregnancy it is very easy to take a wrong decision to make things better in the short term.

[Rachey1969]

Despite having my own agenda, I'm not trying to push her either way, I just want her to make the right decision for her, not a knee-jerk 'just get rid of it'.

[Blu]

To be really, really hard, it is as important to consider the effects of someone having a baby they don't really want as it is to consider the effects of any guilt they might feel. I wonder how many poor children suffer because of this?

Rachey, hope you can help your friend be clear about what has changed for her...and what her biggest need is.

Congrats on your own pregnancy.

[Rachey1969]

Yes that's true and thanks - it's difficult to not be emotional when I'm pregnant myself! Dp has suggested I back off a bit, I'm just feeling a bit helpless because I'm the only one that knows.

[Rachey1969]

Blimey - where did that come from... 'friend terminating pregancy' sponsored by humzingers fruit stix... what a bizarre world!

[Blu]

Being the only one that knows must feel like a responsibility - but it isn't really - you don't have to do anything except listen - which is the best way for her to realise her own direction, anyway.

[Rachey1969]

Yes, you're right, I'm taking this too personally - she's an intelligent woman. I'll try and keep my opinions to myself unless she asks for them!

[haven]

personal experience...god..

when i was pg with dd, i was 19 and well ready to give it up. didn't want a baby. well, my sister said to me..(she unfortunately had an abortion) sis, every year when (her son's name) turns another year older i am reminded that i would have another child older than him and another child that would love me. For some reason, that was the only thing she said to me and that is all it took.. I agree with some and say just listen, but sometime when people are in a pg situation all they think of is the bad so it makes more since to make it go away.