What would you do? Advice please! *Long*(63 Posts)
Sorry in advance for the length of this.
Background. DH and I used to be madly inlove with eachother. We fell pregnant with our first DD within 2 months of being married. We both agree that this was way to early but would not change it now. We just had another DD (3 months).
He has never said anything to hurt me or upset me although we have had our fair share of arguments over silly things.
In January he went out for his dad's bday. He never came in until 4:30am and text me the whole time saying he was waiting for a taxi, loved me, see me soon ect. Next morning he was asleep on the couch. I picked up his clothes and shoes and his phone fell out of his pocket. It was turned off so I went to turn it back on for him. He woke and saw me and lept up trying to get the phone from me. We have never had secrets. He uses my phone all the time and I use his. So immediatly I was thinking what the hell does he have to hide? Turns out he had gone out, taken his ring off, made up a story that we were divorced and kissed 2 girls, got thier numbers and text them thru the night. He rode home with one in a taxi and walked the rest of the way home. I was torn apart by this. He told me he did not love me anymore and that he was leaving. I love him so much and since he had never ever done anything like this before I knew something was wrong. We have had a lot of stress and I think he needs help although he does not see it. So we talked a lot and in the end I am not proud but I begged him to stay and work on things. We went to councelling and he cried and said he did love me and he does not know why he did what he did. We moved on...
Then...he had a bad day at work on Wed. Said he wanted to go for a walk so he left after the kids were in bed to clear his head and think. I proposed the idea of him going back to school. He came home and said we would talk tomorrow (thurs). Thursday he comes home and we are all lovey and kissing and made plans for a date night in the house Friday. I get in the shower and he gets in with me. We start talking and he is telling me about his ideas and 5 year plan ect. Said the scary thing was that he wondered if we would be together in 5 years. I said why do you think that? He said that he has not felt close to me the last few weeks (I am on anti-dep for PND so it has not been easy living with me but I am getting the help I need and trying to be me again). I agreed that we have not been as close. We got in bed and cuddled up and I said well if we keep going the way we are and not doing something about it then there is a possibility we wont make it for 5 years. I asked him if he still loved me and wanted to maybe make a plan so get close again. He said he didn't. He said he loved me, but he didn't. He wanted to leave. I was shocked as 30 min before we were in the shower together and talking about our date the next night! We talked and cried and he ended up back in bed with me. He kissed me and I cried thinking maybe it was the last time we would kiss. He came home from work early on Fri to talk. He said that he feels like he has failed at everything he has done and he knows we won't last so it would be easier to leave now. He said I deserve better, he is holding me back ect. I told him I love him for him and not what he does. I don't want him to leave. I could not live without him and I hate that guy has this hold over me but that is how it is. I think he is really confused and possibly depressed since I have been. After a lot of talking and crying we ended with the fact that we love eachother and our kids and we did want this to work so we are going to try everything we can. He said on new years eve we will decide. I had to agree with him to make him stay and work on things. He said he didn't want to hurt me anymore. I said he hasn't hurt me yet but if he left then he would.
I just hope that I have shown that this is not my DH at all. The only reason I am still head over heels for him is because I know the man I married and I know he is still in there and I want him back. Because he goes from one extreme to another in a matter of days is what makes me think he needs help. Last Friday we went out and were like love puppies making everyone sick watching us! Then the next friday he wants to leave? I can't make him get help and talk to someone unless he realizes there is a problem and wants help.
So what do I do? What if he decides to leave New years? How can I get him help without pushing him? Otherwise we have a perfect relationship. We hardly argue and we love our kids. We laugh all the time, and we enjoy time together, we just dont much time with 2 kids under 2. I am so confused...
Thanks for reading and sorry so long again!
My initial thought is that the arrival of children very shortly after you were married really meant that you had no time to enjoy just beng together as a couple. Has your PND and the striain of two children has undermined the relationship from his point of view?
Men find children a shock as it fundamentally changes the relationship with their DW/DP. To be honest, I did stupidly wonder for a while if DW still loved me after DS1 arrived. Of course she did.
Sorry to ask this but is this also partly about sex or lack of it from his point of view? Men tend to feel much more 'in love' after sex but women need to feel 'in love' to have sex. Apologies, and do ignore me if that is way off the mark.
On a positive note, I do think there is a willingness to work on this from his point of view but you need outside counselling help to make the most of that willingness.
your assessment seems very likely to me - he does seem very erratic, and up and down and certainly there seems to be a lot of love and affection left in the relationship. hmm. it's hard to get someone to realise they need help, often a neutral person outside the relationship is better placed to do it. does he have a brother or a good friend you can talk to?
Thank you so much! Yes you are right. Our children have been reason for much stress and as a result we have put 'us' on the back burner. There are days that we only talk about kids and house stuff and not about us as people. I used to be much more fun and I do know that has not been the case as of late. So I do feel for him as I know I have been so different. However, I need his support more than anything right now so I ccan get back to me. Feels like a big circle...
You are right with the sex thing too so don't feel bad. I am BF and on anti-d and that has had a major impact on my sex drive. I always had a higher drive than him. I actually remember when we were dating he said to me 'No means no' at one point lol It has been weeks since I have felt like it. I actually feel low because yesterday after we decided to work on it, we had sex. I wanted to show him we still had it. It was great. He still has not said he loves me though so I kinda feel dirty but he is my DH. Confusing I know.
I agree with outside help. We did it before and we did not like it as it was more of a listening session rather than 'help'. What about him? Do you think he needs to see his GP or maybe go to counselling himself? He did say that if he still feels this way in a few weeks he will see the GP.
Can I be completely honest? I really don't want to upset you further because you sound really sad but he sounds like a teenager.
WTF is this I will tell you on New Year? You as a couple are not deciding this, he is. You want to stay together and be a couple don't you? so it is not a joint decision.
I can appreciate how hard this must be for you. My first exh did this (I have two!) and I was destroyed. In the end he decided to stay but I never really forgave him and ended up leaving him a year or two later.
I think he sounds as though he is restless and not sure he wants to be committed anymore. He is already experimented outside of the relationship and I think he will probably continue to do that.
Of course no-one should stay in a relationship where they are not happy. I think he probably does love you but wants to shag around too, if he has not been already.
I think you need to ask yourself what YOU want, not what he wants, he is taking care of that fine by himself. I would be tempted to scare him a bit by telling him to piss off until he made up his mind but you have to be prepared that if he does he may choose not to come back. I am not advising you to do that, just saying that is what I would do.
Don't make excuses for him, please don't, he will already be making enough for himself.
He does not really have anyone to talk to. He is not a talker. Yesterday he told me more about his feelings than he has in 5 years. It was like a new door was opened and I was happy to be let in. I just listened and let him talk. He is closest to his dad. However, his dad has made it known that if he left he would not be welcome in his home and he would dissown him. I am also American and his dad said he would pay for me and the girls to move to the states if that is what I wanted, which I don't think I would do as I don't want to take the girls from DH. They need him even if he does not live with us. So, DH has nowhere to go. I don't want him staying with me because it is the easy option though. I want him to want me for me.
sunfleurs You are right. What I want is him. I don't want to be walked all over though. I always thought I would be strong enough to kick any guy aside if they did all this, but I have realized that my love for him is outweighing my strength.
In 5 years he has never strayed other than the time in Jan. Which is why when it happened that I thought this is not him, something must be wrong. I know he has no confidence in himself and maybe he was trying to make himself feel wanted or see if he still had it. I don't know. He said he does not know why he did it, and he was so drunk he does not even remember their names or what they look like. He also hardly drinks, so again a one off.
The hard thing for me is, I am happy. Day to day, I want to spend my life with him. We have had issues yes. But one day we are perfect and the next, out of the blue, he says all this. So I refuse to believe he really feels this way. How can someone switch on and off like that so fast?
I did think about letting him leave but I am afraid he won't come back. Also, what if he does and it is to late. My girls do not deserve to have a dad who comes and goes when he wants to either. He either stays, or goes...that is it. If he left I would hate him. I would not be able to ever understand a man who would walk out on his 21 month old and his 3 month old for selfish reasons. I don't get to walk when I feel enough is enough. So why should he?
I spent years making excuses for my 2nd exh, we married young, he is depressed, he hates his job, I don't give him enough attention after the dc etc etc etc. He was none of these things. He was just selfish and didn't want to be married to me, well he did actually but totally on his terms. I should have stamped on it early but I didn't and it went for far longer than it should have done.
I could well be that your dh is depressed. His dad's black and white approach to things probably doesn't help. Ime though, most men who behave like this are not, they are just selfish but because they were so loving and supportive at the beginning we keep trying to get that man back. I spent years trying to do it. A short, sharp shock would define what is going on here I think but it is very difficult to do. I didn't manage it but I wish I had.
What does your gut feeling tell you? Do you think he is depressed? I have been depressed and I can tell you now I didn't want to get off with other people, in fact I clung to the ones I was with and family members because I needed the comfort. However it does manifest itself in many different ways.
Personally I think he is. I have PND and I know that for me, one min I want a cuddle and closeness and the next I want to be left the hell alone. My emotions change by the second it seems and there are days where I think I don't like him although I know I do and it passes quickly. I would never act on it or say it to him though as I at least understand what is real and what is my depression. I don't think he wants to admit something may be wrong with him. His answer for everything is 'I don't know'. If he never finds the answers then he will fall and I can't stand by and watch someone I love so much fall so hard because they are to proud or to selfish.
But I cannot imagine my life without him. If something happened to him I would be hospitalized. My other half would be missing and I would physically hurt. He said he would feel the same...doesn't that say something?
If he is depressed, he needs to see his GP and start some kind of counselling, perhaps it would work better for him if he went alone. I have found it very helpful in the past.
I am sorry to hear about your PND, I had it too and it was just awful. The worst I have ever felt. All this with your dh can't be helping. You say you can't stand by and watch him fall because of being too proud or too selfish. If you try to take on too many of his problems yourself you will end up falling yourself. He has to try to take some responsibility and find out for himself why he is feeling the way he does. You cannot do that for him.
I agree. I cant make him get help if he does not want to. I also dont want him to throw everything away because he is to afraid to ask for help. I want him to talk to somone alone too. I really think it will help him to be able to talk to someone outside of the situation.
I don't think you will get through this without professional help - e.g. Relate etc. Your husband sounds very confused. So sorry you are having to go through this .
Is it possible that he is seeing someone else? Men who do the, 'I'm not good enough for you' thing never say it because they genuinely mean it. They are trying to make you feel better about being treated like crap, whether you know you are or not.
There is no way he is seeing someone else. He comes straight home from work and usually spends all his time at home with us. We check eachothers emails for bills and whatnot and phones are interchangable. Just the way we have always been not like we check on eachother.
I think that part of the problem is him being home all the time with us. I think he needs time to be him as well. I can't make him get a hobby though.
Call me a massive cynic - I usually am - but...
Why did you have to "agree with him to make him stay and work on things"?
That's his responsibility, not yours and is also a common ruse in putting the onus on you for anything subsequently going wrong in the relationship, because if he doesn't stay or doesn't bother trying, he'll claim it's your fault, not his.
I think that if he isn't already seeing someone and hedging his bets until New Year's Eve, then he's planning on playing around until then and if you find out about it, he'll make the excuse that you were on some kind of "break".
Is there anyone he might be fancying at work or something? Things don't necessarily have to have happened. My gut instinct tells me there is someone else involved in this equation. I have heard it all too many times to not hear warning bells at the way your dh is behaving.
Oh dear I am SORRY you are having to go through this especially when you have PND.
However I agree with others who are starting to post. You are not thinking about what YOU need and want from this r/ship but are being "blow in the wind" by your H and waiting to see what is his next move.
He certainly sounds very mixed up and I wonder about some sort of identity crisis - presume too old for mid life crisis as such young children?
I also wonder if you idealising your r/ship as you mention having outside help in the past which wasn't helpful, so presumably there were some problems?
The thing that you MUST realise is that A cannot change B's behaviour unless A changes their behaviour. At present your H knows that he can mess you around with all this "yes, no and maybe" stuff without any threat that you will react adversely to this.
You need to take some control of this situation not only for your own sake but for your H's as well, as this over compliance is not doing him any good and is giving him permission to continue to mess you about.
I know you want and need your r/ship to continue and with such young children I can well understand this. However I think you must try to act strong and resolute even if you don't feel it which I'm sure you don't.
What about telling him that you have had enough of all this uncertainty and changing minds and putting time limits on your r/ship etc and it is not good for either of you. Remember stay calm and strong..........act the part if you can............insist that you find a counsellor (a good one this time - not someone who just talks at you - a good counsellor should manage the therapeutic process) look on the British Assoc of Approved Counsellors.
If he believes that you are starting to put boundaries around his behaviour it may help to change things. BUT you must be consistent, no more doing anything to make him stay and say he loves you etc.
Remember "if you do what you have always done you will get what you have always got."
Sorry to be directive but I sense that you need som direction right now. What is his job by the way and do you have any friends/family who can support YOU while you are going through this. I suspect you might not want toadmit to anyone that you are having these problems but that has to be faced and you need to stop making excuses for your H.
Sorry but I too would not rule out that he has designs on some other woman even if "nothing is happening" - and this could well be the cause of all this uncertainty.
Take care of YOU
he sounds like he feels guilty about something.. hope not though
I hear what everyone is saying and i do appreciate the advise. I know there is nobody. He is not that clever and when he messed up in Jan I knew in less than 6 hours what happened, where he was and also who he was with. I got the whole story before I even asked him and he was honest and admitted to the details I already knew. He is in a work environment of just men, so I pray it is not someone from work lol
He also wants sex allll the time. I have not felt like it because of BF and PND. If he were seeing someone I think he would go off me and be distant in that way.
I am going away tonight to stay with his dad. Taking the youngest so I can BF and he will stay with the older one. Maybe we need some space and I will be able to think a bit. What I want is him. Nobody is perfect and I don't expect him to be a saint for the rest of his life. What I can accept though is him throwing the towel in. I just want him to want me too.
nananina Yes, we did seek advise before. It was in January after he did this the last time. Before then however things were great. Even the day of the crime we had a great day and even had sex. Then he went out that night, made his mistake, and said he wanted to leave the next day. I just cannot accept that he really feels this way. We have since been happy (odd days here and there of course) Last Friday we had a great night out and we felt like us again. Then a week later it goes from one dynamic to the next? I just don't get it. That is why I think maybe he is going through something and needs advise/help/therapy...
Can you get hold of his phone again? Check his email? I'm concerned he's cheating on you, feels guilty and also is hoping that he can leave you without being the bad buy so it's going to be drama city until you kick him out.
I'm really sorry and I hope I'm wrong.
I actually used his phone the other night to get the number for our babysitter as I didn't have it. A text from his dad came then and I read it to him. He did not seem shady in anyway while I was handling his phone, if that makes sense?
Also, I was in his emails yesterday to get the password info to pay a bill online. I suppose he could have another email address I don't know about but we have one comp and he has not messed with any history. He does not use one at work.
He has such low confidence that I really find it hard to believe he is in any place to be finding someone else right now. I know I could be wrong and maybe I will kick myself later, but as I said he is just not that clever or has the patience to cover it all up so I would not find something.
Well I am at his dads house now with DD2. I hope this does not backfire and he likes being without me. I asked him if he thinks that is a possibility before I left and he said the usual 'I don't know'. What if he does like it better with me gone and decides to leave? I feel so helpless. Do I just have to accept that this is it and try to pick myself up? I would be in pieces. I just cannot believe this may be it. Am I lying to myself to make it easier? Love sucks to be blunt.
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