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help re my previous thread.

(57 Posts)
idontlikecricket Sat 03-Jan-09 23:34:08

Did post on my original thread half an hour ago but am feeling awful so please respond.

Can't work out how to add a link to my original thread, so just copied and pasted the most relevant bit.

Ok so I am back
Just talked to my husband about our relationship etc.

Am I going mad or is this slightly insane? Since my husband is saying how terrible our marriage is, how he doesn't feel he can work on it, we are such different people, does he think we will be together if we didn't have kids etc, I told to him think about the repercussions of his actions - i.e me finding a new man, our DD getting a new stepdad. He told me to stop guilt tripping him and making everything so black and white.

I told him that I'm not - he's the one that's wanting to separate, not me. I'm not denying there's things we could have worked on, but I think marriage is about commitment and making it work and sorting out issues.

His response is that he doesn't want to work at something where ten years down the line he realises he is just as unhappy. I told him it doesn't need to be like that.

I'm confused as to where he is coming from re a separation. Does he mean separating with a view to sorting out problems and potentially making things work, or is he talking about permanent separation. His repsonse is that he doesn't think at the moment we can make anything work so he wants to separate (no commital there then).

He doesn't like it if I say that it's his choice to leave, not mine. He says "oh so it's all my fault then". If I say it is his choice to choose whether to stay and sort it out, counselling, working on it or to leave and face whatever the future may be, he doesn't like it because he says I am making it so black and white and trying to guilt trip him???? How can I be guilt tripping him by spelling out the obvious?

He's made me feel really confused and keeps telling me I am guilt tripping him. But I keep saying the guilt is his because it's his choice to walk away - we all have to make choices in life and deal with it.

I told him to grow up and face his responsibilities.

I am rapidly getting peed off by this childish viewpoint of his.He seems to think that I'm making things so easy and that I'll be happy as long as I've got my little family and "he can stuff his problems" (his words)?????

Am I going insane or is he being slightly unreasonable, I mean if you choose not to work at something and walk away, you can't tell your wife you are guilt tripping them?

Sorry I am just so tired of this bull.
goodness, thinking about it. because i have called him selfish, immature, unkind and words to the like before and I'm now being accused of guilt tripping am I a toxic person????

Also, I can get a little bit needy because he's made me feel unloved???

Gettingagrip Sun 04-Jan-09 00:12:55

gaslighting

idontlikecricket Sun 04-Jan-09 09:16:49

"Some abusers consistently "forget" making the promises which are most important to their partner, thereby causing her more pain and confusion. Whether the Gaslighting abuser intends on the lies or not, the result is still the same, leaving the victim in emotional peril." Quote from a website I read.

Now whilst I don't think my DH is 100% a gaslighter by nature - he did do this. He arranged to go on one of his hobbies with another woman. He had said to me in the past that he wouldn't do something on his own with another woman, he'd go in a group (because of past problems and how I feel about that). He text a friend of his y'day to arrange just that. When I asked him about it he first said he'd never agreed not to go on his own with another woman. Then said what's the problem, we are supposed to be separated so why are you bothered? I told him would he mind if I bought our DD along and came and watched and he said "so what you're going to follow me now". He knows exactly how I feel and the reasons why I feel like that.

Hence the big discussion above.

He also tells me the problems are too much to overcome in our relationship, he's tried and he feels there is nothing more to give. No specifics.

He uses previous examples of things i.e. the fact that I didn't want him to get a motorbike because I was worried about it (had a friend die on one, know someone else seriously injured on one). Ok so I totally over-reacted and said "if you get a motorbike I'll divorce you". A very stupid thing to say. I reacted like that because I didn't know how to explain myself, because he never listened to my reasons and also made me feel so ignored that eventually I would burst out with these ridiculous comments. My faults, i know. I can't blame him for saying that, it was me, it was stupid and totally ott. However when we talk about our relationship he uses that example of a way of how I stopped him doing things and how I never understood him and held him back. This was 5 years ago! Its like he never forgives me for things I've said in the past. He won't move on from it. I've told him I overreacted and it was wrong and I would listen more fully to his plans and ideas and not overreact, but it's like he's so unforgiving and wont forget.

He can't forgive me for any of my faults in order to move on and make things better.

If he had a really crazy idea about something or something I wasn't keen on, and I didn't want him to do it he'd say "no body tells me what to do, I do what I want". I tried explaning to him that in the course of a relationship both parties would have to disagree on things, make compromises etc, but he'd still go ahead and do what he wanted, because "he's been told all his life what he should be doing" and he's wants to do what he wants. i.e doing courses and hobbies that would really eat into our family time.

Ok so I now realise that sometimes just because there are differences in the way people view things and the things people want to do, and I have to accept that he might want to do things that I don't agree with, it's like he's not listening and won't forgive me for overreacting in the past.

idontlikecricket Sun 04-Jan-09 09:34:51

Oh and when I tell him he wouldn't be able to carry on with half his pursuits without me because I'm at home with the baby - he doesn't even say thank you, he says well tell me if you want to do something. Totally taking for granted how unthanked (word??? I feel?

CatOfOneTail Sun 04-Jan-09 09:48:17

When my ex-husband was being like this it was because he was already involved in an affair. He did all that stuff about trying to blame me for everything because he couldn't face taking the blame himself. I was a sahm, doing my best, by no means perfect and I tried so hard to put 'right' the things he said I was tormenting him with. This of course just made him feel even guiltier so gave rise to more off the wall accusations. Is it possible he is already seeing this other woman?
Lots of love and support to you, don't believe what he is telling you about yourself

idontlikecricket Sun 04-Jan-09 09:57:25

I asked him that and he told me that he's not and if I'd seen her I'd know I have nothing to worry about.

I don't think he is seeing anyone or having an affair but I do think he is trying to make me push him out, so he can absolve some of his guilt at leaving.

idontlikecricket Sun 04-Jan-09 10:12:42

He knows why I don't like him doing things on his own with other women. Last night he texts one of his friends to see if she wants to do something and she replies along the lines of "HI honey...." Now she might have just been using that phrase, but I didn't like it and it made me feel really insecure.

When I just asked him about how strange it was that this woman and him use the same terminology "honey" (he never used to say that and now does). He told me I was pathetic.

Bit upsetting seeing that he did have a fling with someone when we were separated before, only told me bits and pieces over a couple of weeks and never really understood how devastated I was. And I think, deep down, never 100% showed remorse.

I said I think its unfair that you called me pathetic, seeing what happened in the past, how he knows how I feel (and also because he said he wouldn't go out on his own with another woman).

He just walked off. Now I feel in the wrong and completely idiotic. He makes it out like Im picking holes.

I'm so fed up with this crap.I don't want to separate and I don't want our marriage to break up, but is he being unreasonable or is it me?

AnyFuckerForAMincePie Sun 04-Jan-09 13:37:35

he is BU

you are right, he is trying to make you make that final decision to separate for good

so he can not look like the one who broke up the family

he is playing mind-games with you

you are in pieces, I can tell

stop letting him into your mind, you will never win

let him go, no more "discussions", stop trying to understand, you never can

Gettingagrip Sun 04-Jan-09 13:57:17

OF course he does not do these things '100%'. If he did you would be out of there as fast as your legs would carry you. He does them just enough to make you think it is you that is mad and irrational, but just NOT enough that you finally throw on the towel.

They have all read the same book. They are all the same. It just gets worse and worse until you are suicidal and go totally mad.

Trust me....you must protect yourself, and more importantly, your children.

You can never ever win. Its like dealing with the devil.

xxx

sickofthisrain Sun 04-Jan-09 14:02:34

hi idontlikecricket, I so feel for you and unfortunately have to say that your OP could have been written by me. It's like being emotionally beaten up, H gives me lots of reasons why he isn't happy (I'm boring now I'm a SAHM, I don't understand him, I never ask about his work, we don't share any interests, he finds our home life mundane blah blah blah) but offers absolutely nothing constructive to improve things. THe conversations are pointless, they only serve to distress me and nothing is achieved apart from a sense of upset and uncertainty. THings get back on an even keel and it all happens again.

Have challenged him a little in the past few days and started telling people a little of what's been going on. He is now the most caring cheerful H in the world, and has gone off to his DP's, probably to make it seem as if I was hormonal and overreacting when I sobbed on the phone to MIL yesterday. (Very very out of character for me.)

Have decided to give him this week to think about what he wants and commit to either staying together and working on things (including going to Relate) or start making plans to live separately so I can get the dc's sorted before they're of school age.

I think with your H there are bound to be trust issues because of what happened in the past. I would be very suspicious of a text which started "hi honey" but wouldn't get close enough to my h's mobile to ever see one, so at least you're more aware!

Please keep posting. I'm so interested to know how things work out for you.

idontlikecricket Sun 04-Jan-09 16:35:52

Well before I finally crack up (and believe me I'm nearly there....had a year of this treatment, two - three years of a moody husband) I made the decision to go and visit family oseas. I'm going with my DD this week. Booked it and all. Stuff him and his sodding mind games.

When I come back, if he hasn't changed his tune (and I dont expect him to have THAT much) then hopefully I'll have plucked up the strength to throw his stuff out the window and tell him to sort himself out. I can't anymore.

I always wanted to be there for him and help him - but at what cost???

I realised it tonight, although I am pre-menstrual so everything is worse, its not like me to burst into tears all the time, feel like I'm not worth being around and feel like I shouldn't even exist.

Thanks for all your advice, and SOTR good for you and hope the Relate goes well.

I guess I'm trying to protect him from going off, making a mistake and realising what he's lost, but I can't help him anymore and he doesn't want to help our marriage.

I think sometimes people have to learn the hard way. Maybe he does and if Im still here - who knows? I will never give up on the hope of being a family, but it will have to be a changed one.

sickofthisrain Sun 04-Jan-09 16:39:45

Good on you, hope it all works out well for you! I totally understand where you're coming from with the protection aspect of it but they're adults as much as us and have to be accountable for their actions.

idontlikecricket Sun 04-Jan-09 16:45:08

So true.

I wanted to say to you on a positive note about learning the hard way.

I know someone whose DH was exactly the same. Said the same thing as our DH's. Went off and left his wife. Lived with another woman v.briefly. His ex-p was going to divorce him but spoke to him last minute. Was strong and told him that if his attitude had changed she would consider taking him back.

He jumped at the chance. Over a year later they are doing very well. He admits he was COMPLETELY in the wrong with his attitude. He said he didn't really think like what he was saying, it was just his skewed up perception of life.

Having been out there and seeing that everyone else wanted what he had, he missed with DW and DC desperately and now, appreciates exactly how lucky he is and fully acknowledges his fault.

So there is hope.

But I'm thinking of you.

ohappydays Sun 04-Jan-09 16:51:12

Like Cat ofonetail - my ex was just like this - I couldn't do anything right. Every single thing I did was wrong. Guess what - he had been having an affair for over a year and was trying to justify himself to himself and family. Is he trying to push you to do something he hasn't the courage to do - have a snoop around and see what you can find out.

idontlikecricket Sun 04-Jan-09 16:56:27

I am a master of el snoopyness and there is nothing

If I ask him he gets angry with me, as if to say how dare you think that of me!

CatOfOneTail Sun 04-Jan-09 17:03:01

ohappydays - that's just what I was going to suggest. It's only worth doing if you really really want to know the answer though because when you find out for sure it's a lifechanger. Eventually I went through my ex-h's briefcase while he was asleep (pre-laptop/mobile phone era!) and found the evidence. It all made much more sense immediatly - explained why I could never be in the right and why he could never approve of anything I did or said. He needed to be able to leave me (3 mths pregnant with our ds)and our dd aged 8 months for his 'true love' and couldn't come up with a way of doing it that didn't make him look like exactly what he was.

idontlikecricket Sun 04-Jan-09 17:03:03

I'm gonna hijack his phone and check the numbers.

To be honest though I don't think he has the time.

I think he is just an arse with an attitude.

CatOfOneTail Sun 04-Jan-09 17:17:46

I really hope there is nothing to find. But just in case, have you checked msn logs on your computer? Or considered that he might have a second phone you don't know about? Seems extreme I know, but it really does happen.
Just reading back over the bits where he is making you worry if you are a toxic person. All you have done is respond as anyone would do to the sort of behaviour he is dishing out to you. Please, whatever you do, don't sign up to what he is trying to do with you. Whatever he says to you is just him trying to make himself feel better by making you out to be a shit.

idontlikecricket Sun 04-Jan-09 17:30:47

I will check them out.
How wierd is this - we were just talking and laughing about things. Isn't that a bit strange for someone who thinks his marriage life is awful?

I really dont think he truly appreciates what a terrible marriage is all about.

AnyFuckerForAMincePie Sun 04-Jan-09 17:33:52

I'm so sorry IDLC

Please don't hold out for that last minute reprieve. It sounds like he has already moved on emotionally from you. He is waiting for you to give the final kick up his arse cos he doesn't have the courage to do it himself.

idontlikecricket Sun 04-Jan-09 17:41:38

True.

I'm so confused as to what the hell has happened.

I think getting away from it all will be for the best. Although he's saying how much he'll miss our DD.

He still can't see that I'm not guilt tripping him by telling him what the consequences are of his actions (i.e. if I move on) He still says that is obvious but I am guilt tripping him!

If I ever was to be happy with him again he'd need a major kick up the backside.

When I laughed at him earlier i almost stopped myself from saying he needs help (he went to the doctors and they he sounded depressed but face to face they didn't think so????) and he said "don't tell me, I'm depressed, there's something wrong with me...."

I am concerned about his wellbeing though. He switches off all his feelings so he can move on. That's how he deals with life. He sometimes says he feels like giving in and ending it all. I managed to get him to the doctors and that's what they said!!

I guess he can only help himself.

P.S. Did I say because I'm on the internet alot, he reckons I'm having an e-affair with a toy boy, or I'm gonna meet someone else when I go and visit family??? Strange.

idontlikecricket Sun 04-Jan-09 17:43:17

sorry should read re doctors "they said he sounded depressed..."

AnyFuckerForAMincePie Sun 04-Jan-09 17:48:42

Yes, getting away from his mind games will be helpful.

He can only help himself, and anything you try to do will be interference, or neediness, or guilt-tripping him.

What a pillock to say you are guilt-tripping him. His own behaviour should be making him feel bad, you have done nothing wrong.

He says he will miss DD hmm

Does he realise if you split permanently, he will miss her lots more? Oh sorry, to point that out will guilt-trip him.

Maybe some distance away from each other (properly) will focus his mind on what he has to lose.

I would need to keep in my mind though, that any reconciliation would have to be because he cannot live without you, not dd.

idontlikecricket Sun 04-Jan-09 17:52:04

I know. I want him to be with me, for me.

He asks would we still be together if it weren't for DD. I honestly don't know.

Dont get me wrong I am not trying to play the victim, I know I am to blame in some respects because I didn't completely understand his points of view and didn't respect him in certain ways (a lot of my problem is not thinking and being more measured in my viewpoints)- but he says he just can't take it anymore.

Who knows.

AnyFuckerForAMincePie Sun 04-Jan-09 18:14:38

You don't sound like a horrid, naggy person to me.

BTW, I didn't agree with some of the latest comments on your other thread where people said you should spend more time trying to understand his POV. It sounds to me like you are going round in circles and as far as he is concerned only his complaints are valid.

Has he tried to understand yours?

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