Relationship with 4yr old daughter is crap

[Gobbo]

Please please someone give me some advice.

Me and my daughter DO NOT get on. She is four years old, very naughty and cheeky and is in total adoration of her father.

When he is at work she is quite good for me but as soon as he is home she changes into a little demon, she is cheeky, calls me names and does everything that she knows she is not allowed to do. If I try talking to her in calm a rational voice she just stands and pulls faces at me so I find myself CONSTANTLY shouting. It got so bad earlier that I just put baby in the pushchair (hubby is incapable of looking after anyone but himself and can just manage a 4 year old) and went out for an hour to calm down, as soon as I walked through the door she looked as though she had been waiting for me and started again.

I really do not know what to do, I hate shouting at her but it is the only way I can get through to her and it breaks my heart when she cries. I find myself counting the minutes until she goes to bed and dreading it when she comes home from school or gets up in the morning.

Please help

[genia]

Hi Gobbo
My ds is 15 months old so I cannot relate to life with a 4 year old, but I did watch quite an interesting programme on tv a while ago where there was a little girl who was constantly having tantrums for her Mum (a single mother so no Dad around all the time). They showed how the little girl would be waiting for the mother's reaction after screaming so the advice to her was to not react so much (probably easier said than done). She would ignore the tantrums and this helped A LOT. By the end of the programme the mother and daughter had a much more loving relationship where their affection for each other was obvious, and the mother felt able to show how much she loved her daughter. Maybe your dd sees you "rising to the bait" and things it's even more fun because of this (these are certainly the dynamics between dh and I!). If she sees you getting on with your own life and leaving her to it she may quickly change her tune as it sounds as if it is attention that she wants.

[aloha]

Oh, I do feel for you - it sounds awful - but I think you have to stop shouting as it obviously isn't working. I agree that she probably wants the reaction her 'misbehaviour' causes. There is a book I highly recommend called the Social Toddler by The Children's Project that gave me a lot of insight into behaviour and clear and practical strategies to managing it. I think that despite its title it would be equally useful in your situation. She is clearly testing your love for her and it must be upsetting. I also think that when she stands and pulls faces the best thing to do is to ignore this (hard though it is) and even just to walk away. Then her actions become pointless. Say what you have to say - 'don't climb on the kitchen worktop' get her down, and then walk away. Don't be drawn into a slanging match! Good luck.

[Tamz77]

My best friend had a similar kind of relationship with her little boy (my godson) from sometime after he turned 2. Please don't beat yourself up about it; my friend for one is the most patient, loving and generous human beings on the planet and a devoted mother. Some kids are just testy and the ages of about 2 - 5 are the mini-teens! She got professional advice about her situation and I'm not sure that there is a one size fits all policy on solving this. But she was told what the other posters have basically said: don't get involved in shouting, just walk away. This is harder than it sounds with a child who is doing all in its power to bait you but it does seem to work in the long run. Ignore bad behaviour and reward even the tiniest bit of good behaviour with fulsome praise and loads of cuddly attention. If the bad behaviour got really bad, my friend was advised to restrict his movement until he calmed down. I don't mean she tied him up or locked him in anywhere, but if he was throwing things or hitting her, she would sit down and hold him so that his arms were restrained, until he agreed he would stop either throwing or hitting. I guess this is something not everyone would agree with and I'm not particularly advocating it, just throwing some ideas out there.

Also it sounds as if your other half isn't being the help he should be, I would have thought that if he backed you up in tellings-off and discipline then your dd would be more responsive. It certainly sounds as if her behaviour is directed solely at you and not dh; maybe she enjoys the fact that daddy allows her to get away with upsetting mummy? This could just serve to reinforce her bad behaviour. My friend's troubles were doubled because she was a single mother; she has since married and having 2 parents enforcing rules of behaviour in tandem and in support of one another has vastly improved things. That and the fact that the boy has simply grown out of much of his bad behaviour, having got a bit older, learnt a bit more about boundaries, and started the new school experience. So things will get better! And it's not uncommon at all.

[suedonim]

Poor you, Gobbo, it sounds really hard. It sounds as though your dd is playing you and your dh off against each other - divide and rule, kind of thing. It's best if you can present a united front so it might help if you can agree with your dh what is important to you, behaviourwise, and do your best to ignore the rest. At the end of the day, whilst it must be bl%dy annoying to have to listen to the remarks or see the ugly faces, your dd will probably get bored of them if she gets no reaction.

Another idea to try might be to head off the behaviour by doing something together around the time that your DH gets home or get into a routine where your dh has the baby for half an hour while you and your dd can read an exciting book or paint your nails together, do up each otehr's hair - something that would make her want to behave when she's with you. Good luck!

[Jaybee]

My dd went through a similar phase at about the same age I found that ignoring her did work eventually. I would move her to the dining room and just say to her that I am not going to put up with her rudeness and then ignore her. I used to wear one of these portable tape players with the little earpieces and had a tape of my favourite, happy, music - when she started I found it much easier to ignore her if I could focus my attention on the music. Initially, she would shout, slam doors etc. but she soon realised that it was having no effect.
I also think Suedonim's suggestion of doing something fun together when dh comes home - my dd loves cooking and if she is making something nothing will distract her.
What does your dh say to her when she is playing you up?

[zebra]

To me it sounds like Gobbo's DD is vying for attention from her daddy; it's a kind of rivalry for daddy. I wonder if you look at it that way if you can reduce the competition; perhaps let her have her daddy to herself when he comes home? Gobbo can just leg it to the far end of the house for a while. Then she doesn't have to push you to establish who is dominant when it comes to seeking his attention.

[kkgirl]

Gobbo

I sorry to hear about your troubles. I know exactly how you feel, I have 3 very strong minded children, one of my twins in particular is defiant until the n enth.
As genia said it is all about attention and pushing the boundaries. You do not say how old your baby is, and if she is jealous of the baby, and has it become worse since.
I have found that humour can help, since you can end up with confrontations about everything under the sun and in the end you get nowhere. Try to make sure that its only the really important things that you discipline her for. I have found that you can be on their backs for ever otherwise. Try to show that you love her, and turn things into a game if you can, like in our house, bedtime can be very difficult, as in getting them to leave us and go to bed!!!! So we say, "right we are going to play a game where we count to ten and you have to pretend that you have disappeared". Works a treat.
Also you could try the star chart, very hard work, especially if you have a baby to look after as well. But its worth trying to try and change negative into positive.
Hope some of this ramble helps, but try to enjoy life, mine are now 6 1/2 and 9 and becoming more independent by the day, and you realise how precious their baby and young days were and you can't go back, so if you can make it more bearable everybody is happy.