Not sure I can put this into the proper perspective, please help me.....

[BandofMothers]

DH ( not actually married tho ) and I have been having troubles for so long I can't remember what it felt like to not have it.
He did not live with us for nearly 2 yrs when financial matters came to a crunch and during that time I put up some walls and we grew apart. He came round after work every day once he found a job, one that he is still in 2 yrs later which is great, but didn't really help me much. I had a 2yo when I moved out and was 3 mths pg with dd2, who is now 2.

I think a lot of trust issues are present now regarding money tho he is trying to prove he has changed and can be more responsible and provide for us.
The trouble is since he moved back in last Nov we have been on a rollercoaster of nearly breaking up and then having a HTH and trying again.
I have gone off sex BIG TIME, which is unusual for me, I am not sure if it's him or the sex. I still find him attractive, just am so tired and not in the mood.
This is a huge problem for him and he nags me and nags me. We have had big talks about this and he has asked how he can fix it, my answer is give me space, leave me alone, stop asking and nagging. The rejection is horrible for him, yet he keeps asking and nagging me.
Well...on monday night it all went a bit horrible. He asked for some relief as sex is off the menu and he doesn't like to do it himself, I said no, he nagged me and tried to guilt me, saying he couldn't sleep as he was so horny and he just wanted me, that if I had just done it when he asked I could be finished by now etc. I continued to say no. I don't want to, I never use bullshit excuses, but I don't want to doesn't seem to be a good enough excuse for him. He stormed out the bedroom calling me names, and hissing at me in teh most horrible voice, he was so angry, I could hear him ranting downstairs from the bedroom. I thought he had gone to sleep downstairs and had a bit of a sob into my pillow, then he came back up. I am not scared of him, but I lay still. He climbed back in adn said, nastily, that this will be the last time he shares my bed, ever.

So, the next day I am dressing dd2, gettting ready to take dd1 to school and he comes in the rooom kisses me and says don't be grumpy. I was shocked and pissed off, but let it go as the girls were about. Later on teh phone he asks why I am being off with him. HE DOESN@T REMEMBER ANY OF IT!!!!!!
I was amazed, he had had 7 beers, but that is not enough to get him drunk, so there is no reason he shouldn't remember, but he claims he doesn't. I was so furious I spent the day lookign for a house, but now I am not sure how I can be mad enough to break up with him over it if he doesn't remember, I'm not even sure I believe him, tho he seems genuinly not to.
I am so confused, how bad was this in the grand scheme of things, cos I dont know if I can judge properly anymore, it felt very bad to me, and I dont think I can be the woman who puts up with this kind of crap, also what else could he do then not remember.

AAAARGH, I just dont know.

I have to go now, but please respond to me

[NotQuiteCockney]

The obvious suggestion - have you considered counselling? The sex thing sounds difficult, he should know better than to hassle and whinge, but it can't be fun for either of you if sex is off the menu.

[Dior]

Message withdrawn

[Anna8888]

Have you had any couples therapy/Relate?

It sounds as if your problems need outside help.

[BoysAreLikeDogs]

BoM

He sounds rather scary tbh - a bit of mind games perhaps? Does he do this to you a lot?

Also the fact that 7 beers does not make him drunk is a bit alarming.

[Annya]

Perhaps he is saying he doesn't remember it cos he's embarrassed? But whether he remembers it or not, he did it and made you feel dreadful. A year of rollercaster relationship sounds awful, what's the point, really? He is clearly making you unhappy, I guess the children must be aware of the rows/tension too.

[missingtheaction]

if you can't bear to have sex with someone it's a big warning signal. go to relate. On your own to start with.

either he doesn't remember, which is downright weird, or he does and is lying/embarrased. either way it's a problem.

why on earth do blokes think that waving a stiffie in your face is going to make you want to have sex with them? I suppose it's because that's what happens in porn and that's what they want to happen. urgh.

[ladystardust]

Going to be very blunt -
This is bullying abusive manipulative bevhaviour and absolutely not the sort of scenario to tolerate if either of you want a mutually respectful, loving and close relationship.
I had the one - got out - now I have the other.
Please don't tolerate this or believe his bull shit.
It sounds difficult and painful but I would remove myself from this atmosphere.

[Blu]

"how bad was this in the grand scheme of things,"

Hard to say...because it sounds as if it is the grand scheme of things that is the problem. You are stillnot confident about the money, trust and responsibility, you generally don't want sex with him, etc etc. Obviously th incident was serious for you, because it made you very upset...and he turned nasty.

Why DO you want tobe with him, and for your relatonship to work? It might not be about whether you feel amad enough to break up with him - i.e you just stay as the default - but about what it is you want to keep, and what it is you want to improve. If not much...well that gives an answer.

[Blu]

Man to say - though in isolation, the idea that he expects you toprovide a source of sexual relief separate fom any love and affection is pretty revolting.

[Janni]

The way I read it though, Blu, is that he is desperate for love and affection and his constant nagging for sex is his rather sad way of trying to get it.

I agree with Dior about him being embarrassed now and pretending he doesn't remember.

I find that even if I'm off sex I really don't mind making DH 'come'. In fact, I think it's no big deal - makes him feel I'm not rejecting him, even if I don't feel like having sex myself.

There is a definite need for better communication in this relationship if it has any chance of surviving. Bandofmothers - your DH sounds like he wants it to work, even though he doesn't have much clue how to fix it. I'm not sure whether you believe it's worth saving though and that's why you are repulsed by the thought of any sexual contact at all.

Don't let it go on like this. Decide to make it work, or decide to have counselling to help you make it work or decide to end it.
It sounds like a miserable state of affairs at the moment.

[BandofMothers]

Thanks for the replies. Janni you are right that he wants or even craves the affection and he does feel that when we have sex that everything is alright and that is how he gets the closeness. Over time I have closed off, I used to be extremely tactile and affectionate, but I find it hard now because of all the crap that has happened.
The nastiness is a problem, as is the drinking, which he does every night. I think I have closed off too much and now don't know how to get back. We have decided to try relate as he really does want the relationship to work. I did want it as much but am now wondering whether to cut and run. When it is good, it is great tho and we get on very well. There is no laughter anymore. I don't think the girls pick up on it too much, most of the discussions go on when they are in bed, or the other room.

I imagine he is frustrated, but don't see this as a good enough reason to nag, guilt trip me and generally be rather nasty to me. When he is angry and we argue, not great screaming rows, but heated debate. He says things that are very hurtful, and whether he means them or not after the heat has died down, he still says them so they are things he is thinking about.

I am a runner, I do tend to up and leave when it gets tough, but now I have 2 children to consider and it makes it more worth fighting for, I am also a lot older and see that that really isn't the way to deal with the problem.
Sadly I find that when asked the question why do you stay, or why do you want to work it out, I find I have to think hard to come up with an answer.
It has been a long weary time of confusion and I sort of want it to end.

[Janni]

Bandofmothers - it does definitely sound like there is some good stuff worth saving and it is certainly worth giving Relate a serious go, as long as you are also prepared to look at yourself and your own strengths/weaknesses in the relationship, not just at his faults

Believe me, it is so not just your partner who feels that if the sex is right everything is right - that's a very common male trait. Sex to mena is release, reassurance, excitement, affirmation and if they're not getting any at all from their life partner they can feel seriously crap about everything, perhaps leading to the behaviours you describe in your partner.

I hope you manage to work this out, for all of you xx

[Janni]

Sorry, I don't mean to sound like I'm on his side over yours, I'm not. It sounds like it's been very hard for you and it's a real pain when you're being pestered for sex you don't feel like having.

Could you find any pleasure in the fact that he still desires you so much?? Could you find him attractive again, if you managed to work out the emotional problems between you?

[BandofMothers]

The annoying thing is I do still find him attractive. The initial problem with sex wasn't him. I just didn't feel like it, I was very tired and just didn't want to. Then he started this whole cycle of bugging me which has just got worse and worse and seems to have gone from annoying to a bit abusive in his reaction, and I have just lost the ability to gauge how bad this is cos to me it seemed like a bad enough thing to say "see ya" over. Then I thought perhaps I was over reacting, but the fact that he can't remember it makes me feel like I really can't be as mad at him about it as I normally would be.

I expect to be treated with more respect than this if I am going to stay around. I just thought I would ask MN how bad this really is. To me this could be a deal breaker as it seems now a smaller step to even more abusive bhvr, potentially. This is where the confusion sets in.

[BandofMothers]

It is great that he still fancies and wants me as much as when we were first together (6yrs ago) but he has to realise things aren't the same. We have 2 kids of 5 and 2 they have done some damage to the nethers which can make sex uncomfy sometimes, there was a lot of stuff when he didn;'t live with us. He asks how he can help fix it, but when i say leave me alone, let me come to you, he accuses me of everything being on my terms, it's only when I want it etc, so I can't really win. Then he doesn't do what he says he will.

[TheProvincialLady]

Is he getting help for the alcohol problem? Because without it your relationship can't go anywhere positive. Drinking every night and drinking 7 beers without getting drunk is a big red flag.

His reaction to you not wanting sex is abusive and I can completely see why you have gone off the whole idea. I didn't have sex with my DH for nearly 18m after a difficult birth that left me very sore...not once did he treat me like this. He was very understanding and it helped a lot. If he had reacted like your DP I don't think I would have felt like resuming things either - sex is about love and respect.

[BandofMothers]

He doesn't thikn he has a problem with alcohol, he says he can go without if he wants ( tho he rarely does)and he drinks less now than he used to which is his excuse for drinking as much as he does now. His mum is an alcoholic and I have made it clear that I wil not be around if he is going to turn into her in 10 yrs. He says that would never happen.

I just don't know how much of what he says I believe any more. H ehas broken a lot of the respect and trust and tbh I am not sure if he can redeem himself, but I do feel somewhat obliged to let him try. He has kept this very good job for 2 yrs now, and that seems to be all he thinks he needs to do.

I thikn I am just really tired of it all and am not really sure I have the energy for it anymore sound like a right lazy moo.

[LilRedWG]

Only read the OP so far BoM but can I ask - had he been to sleep and woken up? The reason I ask is that DH - who is normally the most placid man around - occassionally has strange 'episodes' similar to this.

The first time it happened I thought that he was going to hit me and went and spent the night in the spare room. In the morning he came to find me and asked why I was there . He honestly didn't remember the horrible, horrible things he said to me and the nasty tone he said them in.

We've figured out now that these episodes seem to happen when he is very overtired or stressed and he looks awake (eyes open) but it is almost like sleep walking/talking as he has no recollection of it the next day.

I've learnt to recognise when it's starting to happen and just tell him to roll over and go back to sleep - if I catch him soon enough he does. I don't often tell him when it's happened now but he usually guesses as I'm quieter than normal in the morning.

Hope this is of a little help to you. x

[BandofMothers]

No def not been asleep before it happened, we had been up watching tv. Then went to bed and it all kicked off. Just think I should be able to say no if I want without all this shit. It'a horrible and the pressure I feel to do it when I don't want to is immense, but that would be wierd, I have been there before iin previous relationship and I will not do it when I don't want to, and don't see any reason why I should no matter how horny he may be. It irritates me that he thinks I should, tho he says he obv doesn't think I should what he says and does seems to suggest otherwise.

[TheProvincialLady]

"He doesn't thikn he has a problem with alcohol, he says he can go without if he wants and he drinks less now than he used to which is his excuse for drinking as much as he does now."

But what do YOU think? Does all that spound reasonable to you? Do you really want to spend the next 10 years just waiting to see if he will turn out to be an alcoholic?

I say this because my brother has a very similar attitude to your DP and he thinks he is okay because my dad is a real alcoholic. So if his whole life has not fallen apart (yet) he is doing all right. He is wrong though.

[Janni]

I totally agree about the amount of alcohol he consumes being a big warning sign of trouble ahead if he doesn't tackle it.

It's hard to know whether he would be more or less motivated to tackle it if your relationship improved.

I don't know why, but I can't help feeling a bit sorry for him - he just sounds lost and really unhappy, desperate for affection. Why do your posts make me think that? am I completely off the mark?

[BandofMothers]

No not really. You are quite close to the mark actually. Some of the things he said to me when he was raging were that I am hard, and cold and emotionless. In truth I have put up walls I dont know how to break down, but he has contributed to that with his actions. He says I am unfair to think back on the past to judge the present but dont we all.
He asked me again this evening, and when I said can I just have a few days without him asking he froze me out. Which is what he did last weekend which started this thing on monday off. So now he is barely talking to me, blanking me, pretending I am not there, and he went to bed at 920 without saying goodnight, or even telling me he was going up.

So it seems if I don't agree to sex, or other stuff to compensate then I get frozen out. Seems like emotional black mail to me, he would probably say it is self preservation, but I dont think I can live like this anymore.

[Janni]

It does sound like you have reached an impasse and that you could benefit from outside help to get you talking to each other again. I don't think he can get past the hurt that, in his view, you don't fancy him any more and that's partly why he's being so cold with you now. I think you have been massively hurt by him and want him to earn back your love and respect...

Have you looked into Relate or other sorts of couple therapy?

[HRHSaintMamazon]

I imagine he knows he was wrong to behave the way he did and rather than admit that he is pretending it never happened.

TBH i dont think this incident is the problem, there arem other more deep set issues here that need resolving. It sounds as though you allowed the relationship to move forward before you were really ready. you were right to seperate until he could prove he had changed...but you didnt wait long enough to convince yourself.

I agree that you need professional help with this relationsdhip and you should consider counselling.

[Tortington]

after many years of fighting it i ahve come to the conclusion that dh will drink on a friday night always and a saturday night 90% of the time.

we have the agreement that he must sleep on setee when drunk.

its no fun sleeping next to a drunk person.

i tell you this becuase maybe if you say to him that if he drinks he has to sleep on setee then if he is drinking every night he will be on setee everynight.

tell him you will only have sex with a sober man. for your own dignity. its his choice.