am really upset and am going to rant so this will probably be long a boring

[stillhurting]

i work nearly full time in quite a demanding job; i do all the housework and we have a dd, who i sort everything out for, which i obviously don't mind. my dh works very hard and long hours and i feel like we don't get that much time together, which i really miss. i've been reading that stuff about blokes who do more in the house have better sex - well, i think we proved it last night

dh has been away on a course, but ultimately it was a holiday. and i feel like i sacrificed a lot for him to go - family time, a holiday together, a holiday full stop, had to rearrange my work, all chores etc (yes i know i sound self-absorbed). he came home and asked if he could go to bed for a nap, then when he got up and sat on his arse watching me make tea, tidy up, he turned his nose up at getting dd ready for bed, but he did (she has really missed him, as have i). he then sat on the pc while i tidied around him. i commented that he could be helping so we could sit down together (not having seen each other all week), a hint he didn't take and then he noticed i was getting peed off, so i told him why: ultimately i think he is a selfish pig and i feel completely undervalued. he didn't say anything which generally means he recognises what i'm on about.

anyway, he then said he was going to bed about 9.40 and went and he wasn't bothered whether i joined him or not i did go up, because i wanted to be near him but he went to sleep and so i came downstairs again in tears.

dd woke up in the night - i got up, then got up really early this morning came in our room and he went into her room so i am exhausted again because of his selfishness.

i am still hurt and upset and angry this morning because how can he be so selfish and be so unbothered. we haven't seen each other for a week and he hasn't done anything to help us get some time together, he hasn't considered me at all.

he probably thinks i'm being unreasonable and nagging (perhaps i am) but how can he not see, him doing sod all to help and aim towards some time together is really hurtful especially when he has had a holiday. he didn't even thank me for him being away perhaps that's the worst bit as i feel completely under-appreciated.

thanks if you got this far, i feel better for ranting.

[macdoodle]

I think Daphne that unless you have a H like this you have NO idea how hard it IS to "get" them to help.....of course we are somewhat to blame in that we just get on with it and expct them to somehow KNow what we want/or aks without sounding like we are nagging....
Please talk to him PROPERLY before it is too late, this build up of anger and resentment was a big contribution to my marriage breakup

[stillhurting]

believe me i am no martyr! nor am i doormat.

i do know what you mean, daphne, but i refuse to tell a grown up what is perfectly obvious. i'm not his mother. i didn't let him sit on the pc he did that himself which is inconsiderate.

my problem is not so much that i did the bulk but that he could see i was busy and that the help would speed up the process. it annoys me that he was not bothered about spending time with me only that he was being so selfish doing his own thing. making sure he was ok.

we agreed together that he would go on this week away, and by not recognising my part in that, or the hassle it is when he is away, again i think is inconsiderate.

[stillhurting]

i think that's right, macdoodle. we've always pretty much had a partnership. i don't stand for the crap for any length of time but i'm no tyrant and am usually pretty laid back. i guess i could have said no to the holiday but then that would have been pretty selfish of me and perhaps that's why i'm so pissed off with hime this morning.

[HappyWoman]

I think i too have been there - and i too know the resentment and problems that it can cause.
It doesnt matter what he is doing the fact that YOU FEEL undervalued is enough.

You do need to try and talk to him - but again this is not easy without it sounding like nagging.

Do try and let some of the resentment go though - do you really need to tidy around him? let the mess be - it will still be there next day/week/month. If he can live with it why dont you try too? It is not about striking as such but only do the things that make you feel better.

You need to find a partnership where you are both happy about it.

I am more than happy to work in a messy kitchen and making the beds is a really low priority to me - but h prefers a tidy kitchen and likes the bed made - so he does those things - if they dont get done i dont moan (as i am not that bothered). However i like the washing to get done and not pile up - so i takle that before doing others jobs.

Accept that you cannot do everything and find some middle ground that you can both live with.

I also think you sometimes need to 'teach' men how to treat you by making the effort first iyswim lead by example.

Anyway good luck with it all

[NotQuiteCockney]

But ... maybe he thought that taking some time to destress etc was more important than tidying?

You say you 'obviously don't mind' doing all the housework and sorting everything out for your DD. That doesn't really ring true ...

[HappyWoman]

Again i think i have been there too.

My dh used to go on quite a few 'jollys' from work - he thought he 'deserved' them and i would always feel slightly guilty if i said i didnt want him to go iyswim. But if you really were not happy then you need to say that otherwise why would he know.

I have learnt to say when i am not happy now and yes sometimes it does end in a argument but at least if he still 'does as he pleases' he KNOWS how i feel and can not say 'but you agreed'

So do you think you are a bit cross with yourself?

[Hecate]

Don't make his tea. Don't tidy his stuff. Don't do these things. Say things like "we need to do X and Y, I'll do X while you do Y, or would you prefer to do X?"

You need to be very direct. "I cannot do everything around the house myself. I need your help."

Leave things undone. His washing for example. "I'm sorry, I didn't have time. I need more help around the house tbh."

Or even get a cleaner.

Or say "Come on sweetheart, this isn't fair. We both work, I know your employment is more hours than mine, but when you factor in all the hours I put in around the house and with our kids, I'm doing about twice your hours. All I'm asking for is fairness. We're both tired. I just can't carry on doing all this alone. I'm too worn out."

My dad has never lifted a finger. He sits on the sofa while my mum does everything. He will call her from upstairs to fetch him the remote control that is next to the tv , or to fetch him a drink. WTF?

You should see his office - piled high with dirty cups, which double as ashtrays, fag ash everywhere, plates...and there it all stays until my mother cracks and cleans it up. His car is disgusting.

And then she moans about him and how he never does anything. Er that's because you've fetched and carried for 35 years and never made a stand, Mother. I don't know who I want to slap the most - him for running her round like a skivvy or her for not telling him to get off his arse and do it himself.

She says things like "If I don't do it, it won't get done." Well so what? If you can't do everything, then leave out those things that inconvenience him. don't wash or iron his stuff. Grab yourself a snack but be too busy doing other stuff to make him a meal. Not in a passive aggressive way, but in an upfront, telling him "I am not your slave, do your share or do without." way.

[Hecate]

ok, in the time it took me to type that, there's been lots more info!

But I would say about your comment "but i refuse to tell a grown up what is perfectly obvious"

It is perfectly obvious to you. You are assuming therefore that he sees things the same way, has the same priorities and thought processes and reaches the same conclusions as you. That's your mistake. It's not 'perfectly obvious', it is only that to you. You do need to tell him.

[QS]

A very good post (or two) from Hecate.

I would add a slightly different perspective, but that is because I dont quite get how a work related course can also be holiday. In my previous job I was travelling a bit. None of that was "also a holiday". The closest I got to "also a holiday" was a 5 day conference in Dubai, set on stunning Jumeira Beach, with a little bit of free time in between to enjoy the beach, or events organized by my employer such as dinner at the golf club, trip to the desert. It was fun, it had some elements of holiday, but because I was there with my colleagues and senior management and directors and presidents (not clinton you see) over from the US it was really NO HOLIDAY, and I came home totally knackered.

Maybe your dh was simply tired. Maybe he had learnt a lot, maybe his brain was busy digesting, maybe he had done a lot of networking, and been "on his toes" the entire time.

If you "let him" go away on a work related course, you cant really expect him to be thankful. My dh travels a lot, he comes home exhausted, it takes him a day to get into the swing of things. I leave him be. I dont moan, I dont ask him to help, not that day.

If this is a one off, I would let it be and stop being a martyr, I sense you were possibly deliberately doing a lot so he should see exactly how busy you have been. No point. The male brain dont get that. HE, on the other hand, was possibly thinking, "cor, I have been away all week, and wifey is more into tidying than me. Why cant she just stop it and sit down with me and ask what I have been up to?" In the grande scheme of things, tidying is not THAT important.

[hurtingless]

thanks for the replies. you all make a lot of sense and it is the type of thing that i would reply if i had not been the op, iyswim. the thing about the interweb is you can't always convey the absolute picture and it always has a potential for a different interpretation, which is why i don't usually post in relationships, especially after an argument as i said i was ranting after stewing all night, so i don't know what i expected

we have talked this morning and he knows i was upset and why and recognises how he appeared to be very selfish. he has apologised and says he knows that he doesn't always do enough stuff that would enable us to have more time together, which at the minute is precious little.

we have a lot of conversations that begin with " i'll do x, if you do y..." or " this is hardly fair is it..." and generally he does respond to that.

i meant i obviously don't mind sorting out our dd, i do mind housework - i hate, but i don't like living in squalor

his course was not work related, it was definitely a holiday, ourdoorsy stuff. and i didn't mind him going, until he came back and pulled that stunt. i wasn't doing any more tidying than just clearing the floor of dd's toys so we could walk on it, not trying to prove how busy i'd been.

anyway, thank you again. i do feel a lot better and he probably isn't the jackass i would make him out to be. we usually work well together. perhaps he was tired but the denial that i might have been too ratted me off, and that he thought sleeping was more important than talking to me (i know how self-absorbed that sounds)

[Hecate]

glad you're feeling better. It does you good to have a right old whinge from time to time!