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"But we took you to stately homes" part 3

(1001 Posts)
oneplusone Sat 01-Mar-08 14:10:21

Sorry for starting part 3 if it has already been started but i logged on just now and found the previous thread has reached 1000 posts. And my title is not very inspiring, Ally90, please help!

matildax Fri 07-Mar-08 11:35:18

hello all,
still felling pretty low and very emotional, i think this is the emergency stage or something, so my psychologist called it, I found therapy very draining, even though my last one was really good, i just could not handle the few days after and the panic attacks,especially having the little ones to look after. and such like.
however i do think at some point i will have to return, to come to the resolution, "acceptance" stage that i was told of. i would just like to point out, i did not mean all councellors were dangerous, although i did meet one many years ago, and she was very damaging to me.
ally90, of course hugs are ok!! and thanks for sending me one, smile all of you, have a happy positive friday, and a lovely weekend xx

ally90 Fri 07-Mar-08 12:30:45

Hi Matildax, sorry you had a few bad days, but those days should hopefully start leading to good days in the future, hard to go through those days though...esp with LO's around...

I'm having one of those days today. Friends are the issue today. Discussed with therapist about my friends problem. I seem to be projecting my mother and sister roles onto them. Even tho discussed this all with therapist on wed night, today I open myself up to ridicule and critisim again today with a friend. angry We do have nice chats, but I always say something to provoke a reaction from her. Its like some kamikarzi urge! Lemming like I see an opportunity for someone to jibe at me about something I feel is v important and just go for it...angry. I don't know whether to distance myself from my friend and our mutual friend or to try and set some boundries...but because I'm scared of setting boundries...bit of a vicious circle. If only I could stay in adult...I'm going to have to go back to the chant I had when around my family 'adult adult adult adult'!!

Feel a bit better for that...I know that I am making the best informed decisions for myself and my family and if people disagree that is their lookout. In future I'm just going to have to think 'adult' and bite my tongue alot! And praise myself for being a bit different to everyone else, I may seem to think too deeply about things, but people generally in the end agree I've made the right choice...just takes them a long time to break out of their narrow minded ways to see it!

and calm.... honestly. Some people are IDIOTS! Sorry, their behaviour is idiotic...they are okay as people grin grin grin Now I feel better...!

Rant over!

toomanystuffedbears Fri 07-Mar-08 13:15:47

Hi all,
DD2 arrived safely on Tuesday. Everything went well-3 pushes and she was out.
Oldest Sister was in shock dd2 came so quick. grin
DH was out with ds & dd1 and arrived 10 min late, which was actually good for ds & dd1. I was not bothered at all that he 'missed' it. I didn't have much trouble being glad MS wasn't there, as she'd made a big deal out of it.

Middle Sister has not been communicated with yet...maybe I'll copy her on a brief email to others.
After the Friday "I'll talk to you later" phone conversation, MS terminated my rider card on her shopper warehouse membership. Oooooh, such punishment, she is acting like a jilted lover. (I sent the email on Sunday before I found out about it on Mon.) OS & I agreed: more clarity. wink

I'll catch up reading posts since 3-4.
Thanks again for all your kind thoughts, encouragement, and validation.
Got to go,
TMSB

Sakura Fri 07-Mar-08 13:22:49

Oooh, TMSB, I just got a little shiver at reading your post smile. Congratulations. IT sounds like the birth was fabulous smile smile. 3 pushes!! Must be because it was your second. ENjoy your baby.

Sakura Fri 07-Mar-08 13:28:23

Ally, hmmm, friends.
I was part of a really toxic group during school looking back now. I think Pages discussed this in the first thread- about how we were only attracted to people who must have had issues because the "normal" people appeared boring to us. We needed people who had what seemed like an edge to them, and edge of unhappiness I suppose.
I wonder if this friend was one you've had since before you started working through everything. If so, theres a chance she's probably not good for you. I'm not saying cut her out, but perhaps just keep her at arms length and don't expect too much from her.
I always had a "best friend" (and what a toxic term that is). We were co-dependant, basically. I broke away from that group and believe I couldn't have married DH and followed the path I have done if I was still involved with them because my need for their approval was so strong. If they hadn't have liked my future husband to be, I would probably have been swayed by their opinion.

ally90 Fri 07-Mar-08 13:44:59

Congratulations TMSB grin And well done, 3 pushes!! Lots of hugs to you and your new baby! Really pleased for you, and so proud you have managed to distance your ms at such an important time for YOU and the baby! xxxx

Mikafan Fri 07-Mar-08 13:47:16

Congrats TMSB - now go and relax

ally90 Fri 07-Mar-08 13:52:02

Sakura, she's a recent friend...but kind of got sucked into the friendship by another new friend who befriended me...tbh I'm not truly comfortable with any of the people I have made friends with from going to mother and toddler groups. Always feel a real reserve around them and at times stupidly childish. I know there are invitations for me to act that way...but I really need not accept all of them!! I think part of me is always hoping they will validate my decision to go no contact with my family, feel a bit like a dog trying to please the master...or the child trying to please their mother! Really need a jolt on this part of my behaviour...need my lightbulb moment!!

NAB3wishesfor2008 Fri 07-Mar-08 14:00:31

ally90 I kept hearing noises and I am sure things get moved. I know I am being paranoid as my biggest fear is my mother turning up so I think she has when it really isn't likely.

kaz33 Fri 07-Mar-08 19:10:51

TMSB - well done, we have our own post natal thread grin

smithfield Sat 08-Mar-08 11:49:06

Hi - wanted firstly to say thankyou for all your lovely posts. You brought tears to my eyes with your kind words. Happy hormonal tears, that is.

TMSB- CONGRATULATIONS grin grin grin! Sounds like we had similar experiences. I too was induced and then had a rapid delivery, 3 pushes here aswell, and DH 'almost' missed it. He arrived as she was crowning!

I have been keeping up with the posts... and my goodness there have been some really interesting, thought provoking posts.

Sakura- your response to Attila, really struck me.

I have as you know issues with the way my parents have treated my sister. They always take her side and have supported her financially, and continue to do so now even though she is almost 30.
As a result she has never had to work, and yet wants for nothing (drives the latest sports cars, has a mobile fully paid for, designer clothes).

I think as you say though, this is about control. As long as she is bought and paid for they can control her, so they enable her finacial dependancy on them in order to maintain that control. That's not love.

I on the other hand always wanted to make my own way. I was always punished for my independance, by the withdrawal of any support by them. Sound similar to yourself Attila.

I also recognise where much of this stems from...with my father at least. He had a sister (he no longer speaks to her) She was favoured by his parents.

I think my father replicates this relationship with his daughters. He did initially with me ( I too was given a car etc) But as soon as I became independant I was pushed aside and my sister took my place. I feel this is a position she covets and often blocks direct communication between myself and my father.

Kaz- you said about the course you will be going on and how the foundation belief of that course is that we mimic characteristics of the parent we most want to please/ gain a connection with.

I never thought about this before as I thought I grew up hating my mother, but thinking about it now I believe all along I desperately wanted her to love me. The hatred, aggression came later as a defence to the hurt and pain she caused by being continually rejected/ disaproved of by her. And anger that she never had the ability to love or bond with me.

So it follows that I have definately taken on her personality traits ( and these are not particularly pleasant parts of my personality either). But something to work on for me.

Someone also mentioned (ally I think) the sibling role. As in seeing dc's as our siblings. I posted on here a while back about the rage a felt at ds crying as a baby, mostly when I could not soothe him and wondered if this linked to a memory of being left in a car with my brother as a baby when he was screaming. I was 6 and it felt like we were left for ages (even if it wasnt) and I felt rage toward him at that moment and then also resentment at being left with him when I didnt have resources to deal with him or soothe him.

Also someone posted about being an 'only child initially'. I was an only child until I was six when db came along and then 4 years later ds and younger db (twins). Those first six years were traumatic for me, there was no love or attention and my father left us for some time. So I must have resented in some way the arrival of my siblings when I had still had no love or nurturing from my parents, yet here was another vying for that love and nurturing I was craving. I have intense feelings of jelousy in many areas of my life and I think may be this is where it all stems from.

I havent been able to connect with feelings about this at all but I feel there is perhaps an enormity of unacknowledged feelings around the arrival of siblings. Some of which may be re-surfacing now.

Since giving birth to dd, I have had nightmares regarding ds. I wont go into them now, but I feel they symbolise fears I have about losing my relationship with him. I have had to spend a lot of time with dd, trying to get breatfeeding going and I feel she is pulling me away from ds.
I look at ds and feel sadness and I wonder if am projecting my own feelings onto him?? Or if they are real. It's very confusing.

I also suddenly feel guilt is that I never truly bonded with him. Yet again I feel am I projecting this? It's very confusing.
I did have PND with Ds, and I have always found it difficult to just 'spontaneously' play with him.. although I have fought against these feeling as much as possible of course....so some of my feeling are real, but Im wondering why it has come to the fore so much more now?

Anyway- I also wanted to say 'overall' things are good here. We texted family with news of dds birth.

My mother contracted shingles as a repsonse to dd's birth wink. it's ok....you have all taught me too well to fall for that one. But also think she is slipping as even Middle DB said 'apparently' she has shingles. But that also I feel she shot herself in the foot a bit coming up with a contagious illness this time hmm. She sid however send some lovely flowers and chapagne which I will write and thank her for, and send a picture of dd at the same time.

DD's birth was Incredibly calm and quick enough that I finally got my wish to have a natural birth. Which also meant I got to hold my little girl and feed her straight away.
That had been the most painful part of my previous labour as ds was whisked away to special care, while I was left on a recovery ward not knowing what was happening. all Id wanted at the time was to hold him sad
So this 'was' a very healing experience.

Without the spectre of my mother hanging over me I have also been able to do things my ways this time.

So feeding on demand, and no dummies or schedules. Yes its tough, and I do have moments when I want to yell and scream, because as Danae so poignantly wrote...at times I feel my own unmet needs surface. I feel angry and resentful that she wants to be on my breast 'yet' again.

But I do see the benefits of unconditionally meeting her needs and how happy and settled she has become in a short space and this helps me overide those feelings (well for the most part...).

So I will sign of now, but I wanted to add (if you've managed to read this far!)
...
a hello to the newcomers and to say (especially to Podmog), dont give up.

Its a difficult complicated task, but it brings with it the greatest rewards. Yes everyone here is at a different point in their journey, but it is a continual learning process and what this thread brings is the benefit of everyones experience. Oftentimes that will open your eyes to realisations for yourself which will in turn help you along that difficult journey. And also the benefit of the much needed support, fro those who understand the complexity of that journey.

ally90 Sat 08-Mar-08 12:14:50

Smithfield - welcome back!! grin

Re love then anger hatred towards mother, thanks for that...validates my experience too

Difficulty bonding with ds...thanks again...and how you feel about dd now...yep...thanks again. Its so hard to have so many confusing feelings and have no sleep and raging hormones...everything seems so much worse. Does ds seem happy in himself? Is he old enough to ask what he wants? Like what someone said here, what do I do that you like, what do I do that you don't like?...good questions to ask in an okay way.

Remember it will all seem overwhelming at the moment...so much to cope with, and no nurturing from a mother (well not that you got much last time hmm). You are doing the best you can, you are a 'good enough' mum, not perfect but 'good enough' (as my therapist keeps telling me!). At least you are aware your ds may have feelings about his new sister. Remember you are paving the way for your dd's future now too, so that in itself is draining. Only too easy to shut a door and sleep through the crying.

You can do this, focus on the good you do for both your dc and yourself. You have permission not to be too hard on yourself for the next few months .

Sending lots of hugs and warm fluffy muslin cloths your way xxxx

NAB3wishesfor2008 Sat 08-Mar-08 17:54:06

I would love 5 minutes with my mum so I can say all I want to say and I hate myself for wanting that and for wanting a mum when she has been awful to me.

Chose her men man over me.
Where I was happy, caused trouble so I had to be moved.
Where I was really unhappy didn't make any contact.
Threatened suicide if I didn't invite her to my wedding.
Told my Nan my husband was nothing.

bearsmom Sat 08-Mar-08 18:07:51

TMSB, just wanted to add my congratulations! smile

ally90 Sat 08-Mar-08 18:21:00

Nab, there is nothing wrong with wanting your mum, or rather possibly, a mum that was nurturing...just very sad for you and all of us that we do not have that.

There is no need to hate yourself for wanting 5 minutes to tell her what you feel about her. You have every right to be angry. And every right to be angry face to face. If you did something wrong with one of your dc, would you rather they were angry to you and got it out of their system and you give them a positive response ie listen and acknowledge and apologise, or for them to suffer in silence like you, fearing what response they would get?

Her behaviour seems very focused on getting all the attention on her and away from you. Deliberately seeking you out when she gave you up in the first place to deliberately sabatarge your life is the behaviour of somone very disturbed, or as Attila says 'mad as a box of cut snakes'. I'm not saying disturbed in a dangerous way (something I feared of my mother at my worst points) but someone seeking to make life difficult and unpleasant for everyone around herself.

HTH, got to go and have tea now, but had to reply to your post as it made me feel so sad for you. xxx

NAB3wishesfor2008 Sat 08-Mar-08 18:24:19

She really does not care a jot about me. I haven't spoken to her in years and I can't remember thelast time but it is over 10 years.

ally90 Sat 08-Mar-08 18:27:00

You still want her to change? And one day she will come back and be the mum you always wanted and needed?

NAB3wishesfor2008 Sat 08-Mar-08 18:28:29

She will never change. I am 36 so she must be about 55. My husband would never let her in our lives and that is fine. I just want to make her face up to her actions but she never would and tbh it wouldn't achieve anything at all.

I only lived with her until I was 15 months anyway.

ally90 Sat 08-Mar-08 18:53:49

Just look at what you just typed again...

"I only lived with her until I was 15 months anyway."

It sounds as if you are dismissing your abuse. Because that is what it was, emotional abuse and emotional neglect.

But I could have misunderstood your sentance...

NAB3wishesfor2008 Sat 08-Mar-08 19:20:19

I meant it wasn't like she had been there for a long time and then I had left home.

ally90 Sun 09-Mar-08 16:34:32

Does it matter that you didn't live with her? Your still scared now at the thought of her coming near your house. When I read about your past I was/am quite horrified at the lengths a 'mother' would go to to destoy her childs chance at happiness. No wonder you are so worried she will turn up now, when she did it whenever you were happier as a child.

Did she every turn up unexpectedly at a foster home?

toomanystuffedbears Sun 09-Mar-08 18:26:46

Thanks everyone for your kind thoughts and encouragement.

Thanks also for your insights and grounded guidance because I received an "apology" letter from MS and I probably would have fallen for it if I didn't know what it was really saying.

This is hand written snail mail:
(perhaps to set me straight that email is rude and impersonal?)

Dear TMSB,
Obviously I have offended you in some way and for that I am sorry.
I have been trying to figure it out for some time and have been unable to do so.
I also have not directly addressed it to you before as I didn't want to upset you further.

Please, when you can, let's talk.
By the way, I hope that everything went as well as expected and both you and DD2 are doing well.

I look forward to hearing from you.

Love always,
MS
-----------
She has not acknowledged my email (relationship on hold) and would not do a return receipt as requested...but from this letter I am presuming she read it.
-----------
I see this as the unapologetic apology- "in some way"...
"obviously"- well, what does it take for her to realize her effect-no self awareness until the relationship is angry. I am glad something regarding my feelings is finally obvious to her.
Line 2- unable to figure it out...of course, from her universe, she won't be able to will she?
Line 3- oh, TMSB is the sensitive one, so patronizing and condescending.

Let's talk? There really isn't any talking to her because if the conversation doesn't go her way, she ends it.

My baby and I- just 'by the way'? Diminished again.

Look forward to hearing from me? WTF is this: a cover letter for a job...she-boss, TMSB-employee.
-----------
Also: the day after coming home from the hospital:
MS called here and DH answered. Was the baby born? (Tuesday); is OS still there? (no) can she speak to TMSB? (no, she's asleep and I don't want to wake her) [end of conversation-nothing else-no what did the baby weigh, color hair, did I have natural birth or a C-section, etc.] It was all about the sibling rivalry, matriarchal control.

OS received a message from her (tersely) to return her call. OS did, to get it over with, as she predicted that she'd be blamed by MS for ??? my behavior?
Sure enough.
Why wasn't MS invited down for the weekend when we spoke last Friday? OS said I was about to invite her until she got so nasty on the phone and hung up on me. MS then claimed that it was I who hung up on her. OS stood her ground and said she heard my half of the conversation and saw me hold the phone out so (you) could hang up first. TMSB did not hang up on you. (no response to that)...
so next item...
Why was MS not called when the baby was born? Tbh, I had thought about calling her, but that was an old reflex from childhood training and to be able to resist it at such a time as immediately after delivery...well, I am kind of proud of myself. But OS saw that it bothered me, so she offered to call which would have been a huge gesture on her part for me. OS said the truth: she offered to call for me, and I told her no. Then MS was totally mad that OS didn't go behind my back and call her anyway. shock
MS then used the 'control from beyond the grave' card (as I predicted) and lectured OS that Dad said she (MS) would be the one to 'keep the family together' (after his death) by her being the one to make compromises. OS and I really are having a hard time coming up with an example of when she EVER made a compromise -she is always black and white: her way or the highway.

Any thoughts or comments for a reply will be appreciated.
Initially, I am going to copy the 'relationship on hold' letter and add the birth announcement to it as an addendum. Just the facts.

Yes, this did upset me and yesterday was not good because of hormones and serious fatigue.
But it is also more clarity. And DH is finally telling me what he really thinks of her shock grin.
If she can't figure it out on her own, perhaps I should suggest what she always does when she can't do something by herself-seek the help of a professional. If/when I ever suggest she seek counseling, she'll definitely "blow another head gasket" (OS's term grin).
Got to go-sorry I didn't edit or preview this time.

I hope everyone is doing well. Hello to the newcomers-take care-we are all on your side.

TMSB

kaz33 Sun 09-Mar-08 19:21:29

TMSB - well done, your post speaks of strength and clarity. Go and give that gorgeous baby of yours a hug grin

It reminds me of my mum, poor me and the total absence of any understanding of how much she has hurt me sad.

NAB3wishesfor2008 Sun 09-Mar-08 19:24:46

Ally90

She would turn up unannounced where I was living and expect to just to be bale to take me out. She would also cancel when I was meant to see her at short notice. One time I had been to her house for the day and when the social worker came to pick me up, my mother told her she had only had to hit me once that day.

She used to phone, etc and cause trouble as she didn't want me to be happy with anyone else. I lived with one foster family who were lovely to me and I called the father Dad. She didn't like that and said I had to stop. Eventually I had to be moved. Thanks to someone on here I got their new address and we are in touch. They had kept photos of me for 30 years and have sent them to me. It means a lot as I didn't have any.

ally90 Sun 09-Mar-08 19:37:40

Hi TMSB! Honestly, last thing you need is that letter!

Umm...you told her what was wrong in the email you sent...

"Dear MS,
"Talk to me later?" Don't bother.
It used to be that you'd offer suggestions and advice for me to use in my circumstances, but now you are in the habit of pushing bossy orders on me and if I choose a different solution or answer you become very angry with me. Until this behavior of yours changes, I am putting our relationship on hold.
The plans we have made for you to be here are canceled. I will invite you to visit when I feel I am ready to cope with you. I will send email if or when there is any news, or photos.
Sincerely,
TMSB"

Would of thought that covered the first two paragraphs of her letter???

She's taken the 'blinkered' approach...! Deny your experience/reality, assert ms experience/reality.

Looks like you have it all under control tho.

Love the lack of interest in your wellbeing re phone call, and the checking up if OS there first...lord, how old is she?

Think OS is great, re her asserting your reality. (Pat on back to her from Ally!! That's the kind of sister you deserve!!). Enjoying the 'control beyond the grave' did you ever watch "Only Fools and Horses"? Your in US? The eldest son always said 'before mum died she said...' and it was always to suit his circumstances at the time...Should be on YouTube if you had time (ho ho with baby?!!) to view!

Your doing really well TMSB, putting your needs and wants first. OS and your dh seem to really be there for you too...very important that.

Sending hot fluffy towels your way for the hormones and fatigue. Take care of yourself Allyxxxx

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