should i just get over myself?

[green]

Could i ask for a reality check please?

My husband is a 'good' man and he is a great dad. We've had some serious ups and downs (prob more downs that ups)- I've had post natal depression, he's had an affair. We have been in couples therapy on and off for 4 years.

The basic problems are that he is emotionally not HERE, very very distant. I'm not sure if he is unable or unwilling to make an emotional connection? Secondly, I feel often undermined by him.

Should I just get over myself and realise that marriage is a comprimise and I need to find other ways to be happy - I appreciate my self esteem is my responsibility and maybe I need to fill my life more with other supportive people to fill our lack of emotional bond.

Anyone else had this and made a decision to leave in order to find potential greater happiness, or is that a really risky game to play?

[HappyWoman]

I am sure we all feel like this from time to time. My h had an affair and i know that if i thought he wasnt 'here' emotionally i could not stay.

I do believe in marriage but it is a 2 way thing and you need to have your needs met too.

If you think he can change then i would say stay and make a go of it if not then maybe you have put up with too much and need to call it a day.

Dont feel bad about that - we all live and learn and sometimes it takes us a lot longer to realise what is missing from our lives.

How about trying to do something else to make yo feel happy - something just for you not the marriage. you may need to take small steps to find that happiness.

[green]

Thanks HappyWoman.

I guess the thing is that if we all feel like this from time to time, is it not just self indulgent to leave?

Plus, also the thought of leaving and the inevitable pain that would certainly cause in the short term is hard to contemplate at times.

I don't think he can change - 4 years in therapy without even a glimmer of a desire on his part to form more of an emotional connection. He sees this desire in me as too needy.

Can I add another facet also to this rant. We moved up North a couple of years ago from London where I was born and bred for a job opportunity for him. I soooo want to move back to London but it is almost non-negotiable for him. This means that where previously I had friends and family to provide that emotional support our relationship was missing, now I am also very isolated and alone up here.

[NAB3wishesfor2008]

I really don't think you should just make do, or get over yourself.

You both need to have a proper talk about what you want from the future and see how it goes.

I wish you luck.

[mumblechum]

This may sound harsh, but tbh if after 4 years of counselling nothing has changed it sounds like you're flogging a dead horse.

Marriage should be the one relationship which makes all the crap in life seem ok. It should be the refuge from all the stress of work, or whatever problems you have in life.

If it's not that, it's not worth having imo.

[CountessDracula]

Have you had your own therapy as well as couples?

[AMumInScotland]

I can't help thinking that if he is not able/willing to give you emotional support, but understands from the counselling how much this causes you a problem, it is unfair of him to separate you from the people who did give you that support.

A partner does not need to fulfil all our needs single-handed, but he should recognise that this is something you need, and help find ways to help you make up the gap.

[green]

Is that realistic though mumblechum? Maybe my romantic ideals have been so eroded I don't know what is reasonable to expect anymore.

Do many people have a marriage where it is the one relationship which makes all the crap in life seem ok? That sounds bloody wonderful.

We've talked about the future, but its almost out of his grasp of understanding. Nothing permeates.

[green]

I have been in therapy on and off alone also since getting PND after birth of first child. Just recently found a great new therapist here, so am starting again.

Look, I guess I have guilt because I know I'm not easy - I'm probably quite high maintenance. But having said that I can't remember a time that any desire to talk or get reassurance about anything whether work related or relationship related wasn't seen as a burden by him.

I do feel very miserable at not being around my sister in London especially. Because he doesn't have close relationships with anyone really I don't think he really understands this.

[AMumInScotland]

One way of getting a perspective on relationships is to imagine yourself in 20 years time if you carry on as you are - can you face that prospect?

Emotional distance is not great, but there are people who are just like that, and 4 years of therapy should have got some result if it was going to. Undermining you is another issue - why does he do that? Have you challenged him about it? Even if he's distant, he doesn't also have to be like that.

[mumblechum]

I know I'm very very lucky in my marriage but it certainly hasn't always been easy.

that you're feeling so unsupported. Hope that things improve for you.

[AMumInScotland]

Marriage is supposed to be about "mutual support and comfort" - if you're not getting that, then there's a problem.

It can take a lot of work to maintain a relationship, but it sounds like you've been trying. Is it just you who's pushed for the counselling? Does he seem to have any awareness that there is a problem, or does he just think it's all you being needy?

[green]

No, that prospect is bloody awful.

Undermining is a symptom I think of the built up resentment between us. I am undermined primarily because of the fact that we are so different - I am needy, unstable, not a 'naturally' good mother because I find it difficult sometimes (PND etc). He finds that a burden and therefore is resentful about it. I am resentful of him because I have found him to be so unsupportive.

Even after 4 years, we can't seem to let the resentment go I fear.

As I type this it is all sounding really bleak isn't it?

Popping out for a short while now, but thanks so far for all your comments. I know its a cliche, but it really helps.

[green]

Hi AMIS
No mutual support and comfort at the moment, but I'll be honest and say at the moment I'm probably not giving it either as I feel so demotivated.
Yes, I have pushed counselling but to be fair he hasn't resisted and in fact has said he finds it useful. But the problem in his mind still is firmly that I am needy.

[Blu]

I thnk it's a very fine balance.

Amongst the (*happily) many very happy in-tune and actively coupley couples i read about on MN I suspect there are also many making the best job they can of keeping it all going through the years of early parenthood. I think our parents generation saw coupledom as a job fro the purpose of keeping a household and children going - we sometimes, perhaps, see it as a source of happiness and everything else has to be negotiated to facilitate our main purpose - happiness.

Of course it isn't healthy to be unhapy or in a relationship which is destructive. But i have read a couple of accounts recently by peope who said they 're-discovered' their marriage once children were older, having been through tough, lean years during small-childhood.

Would you be happy to sit it out if you thouhgt there was a chance of 're-discovery' in a few years? Do you have an instinct as to whether this might happen?

[Blu]

got interrupted and x-posted with a lot of recent posts - so my post desn't really address your issues.

[AMumInScotland]

Sounds like you're both unhappy and know something has to change, but have different ideas what the problem is... shame the counselling doesn't seem to have got you anywhere, I thought it was meant to help you both understand and respect each other's pont of view, and that doesn't seem to have happened.

My own recipe for dealing with stuff is share a bottle of wine and do some very honest talking. Only the two of you can decide if you've just got to a point where there's no way forward together and you'd both be happier living apart, or if you can find enough common ground to have another try at making it work.

[missingtheaction]

do you have children?

[missingtheaction]

doh! sory, jsut re-read your first post. ok, so how old?

[green]

they are 7,4 and 18 months. I know its a hard time and I know it will get easier, but I don't think that solves the problem.

We are going back to counselling next week and I am going to get a bit tougher whilst we are there I think. I think we have floated along with the day to day struggles and not asked the bigger question if you know what i mean. although we had a chat over christmas and both said that if the marriage was like this in 5 years we wanted out.

I guess I'm still just not sure what to expect in a relationship. I'm a romantic at heart and want to SHARE my life with someone, not co-exist if you know what I mean. That doesn't sound too much to ask I don't think but as I said, maybe I need a reality check. Although it seems like you all agree with me....

[AMumInScotland]

Well, if you're both aware that there's a problem, and restart counselling with a clear view of what you're trying to achieve, then hopefully the counsellor will help clarify things for you both.

All relationships have their ups and downs, and small children do make it difficult, but if you've both been feeling unhappy for years and neither of you feel you're getting what you need out of the marriage, then this isn't just a "get over yourself" level of problem. The romantic early years do settle down to a more "background level" of affection and getting along together, but it doesn't sound as if that's what you've arrived at, and you certainly shouldn't settle for the way things are at the moment.

[green]

thats a good way of putting it - a background level of affection and getting along together.

[AMumInScotland]

I'm sure there are a lot of other ways of describing how a working marriage might look after the initial honeymoon period is over, but that's how I tend to think of it... I often think in terms of graphs, so the "ups and downs" of married life are quite a visual thing for me .

Everyone's relationship is different of course, and others may say theirs work along quite a different line and they're very happy with it...

[green]

Yes, I like the visual imagery too.
I've been thinking some more about your replies, I guess the point I get stuck at is my own worries that I am expecting too much and that a year down the line as I am in my small flat with 3 kids not coping and very lonely I will think, 'oh, it wasn't that bad'. I know there is no answer to that and no one has a crystal ball, but what gets you to the point where you are ready to make that leap?
I know I'm not happy, but how much of that is ME and not US?

[toomanydaves]

Green isn't this (your last post) what your therapist should be discussing with you? I am amazed to read your thread as I am going through an almost identical process. I too am the needy, labile one in our relationship, and he is the emotionally distant workaholic. After a year of my telling him/showing him/ that I am unhappy, he finally woken up when I told him very clearly that I didn't want to be married to him any more. We are going to therapy together and I am going alone, to answer for myself your last post - "I know I'm not happy but how much of that is ME and not Us?" I am hoping that therapy will give me some insight into this - that I won't then jettison everything for ridiculous, immature reasons rather than sound ones.
As for your co counselling I think 4 years is too long to be struggling with no sign of progress. Has the co counsellor not unpacked his aversion to neediness?

[green]

I say 4 years on and off - 3 different bouts (with different people as we have moved about a bit).

I think part of the problem with unpacking his aversion is that as I am more emotionally literate and willing to face up to my own faults I often will accept and offer up ways in which I am contributing to the problems. He kind of uses this as a green flag to blame me and not see the complexities and his part played IYKWIM.

I know I'm not perfect and that our relationship has come to be through BOTH of our actions. But it feels like I am the only one who is willing to/is capable of admitting fault and adapting respectively.

TMD - can I ask you how you found the strength to say this -what was the straw that broke the camels back, and do you have kids etc??? No worries if TMI but it would be good to know.