A long story about one uncle potentially exploiting the other vulnerable uncle ...

[blahblahnamechangeblahblah]

I'd be grateful for some advice. It's a long story ...

In 2007 my grandma died. Leaving her home to her 3 children. My mum was the youngest. She has ... had ... two older brothers. The sale of the house was split three ways. They all were due just over £100k I think.

My lovely uncle, the oldest, has suffered from schizophrenia for most of his life. Due to this, wanker uncle, the second oldest, was in charge of the estate, I guess.

It turned out that wanker uncle didn't actually transfer lovely uncles share to him. Instead he bought 'him' a flat, then gave him the change. But he didn't actually buy the flat for him. The flat was bought in wanker uncles name.

A few years later, lovely uncle had to move into residential care. Leaving the flat empty.

One day, some time before covid, he asked my mum to take him to his flat. When they got there, it was clear that wanker uncles son was living there. Mum said that it made him feel stressed, he had heart troubles. My mum didn't want to cause lovely uncle any more stress as he was clearly anxious when my mum called wanker uncle to confront him about it, so she put it to the back of her mind.

Last year, lovely uncle got diagnosed with terminal cancer. Due to his poor health and weak heart, it was recommended not to undergo any treatment. So they gave him a couple years to live. It is unclear if he really understood what was happening.

A couple of weeks ago, he was in hospital. We were all worried this was going to be the end. But he was discharged and they said it was his medication dosage.

Yesterday lovely uncle was rushed in. He was suffering from complete organ failure. They said he had days. But my poor, lovely uncle died in the early hours of this morning.

Wanker uncle is ignoring my mums calls and texts. The care home that my uncle lived in has commented to my mum about not hearing from that arsehole.

Wanker uncle is such a steaming wanker. He was a teacher at my school for a short while. He took one of my classes. I said to my friend, 'that's my uncle. He said im fat' he heard me. And in front of the whole class he said, 'you are fat'. And everyone laughed at me. He essentially gave them all permission to call me fat.

My grandpa lived in another country. For some reason, wanker uncle decided to ask him to buy me a new guitar. In his email he recommended grandpa send him the money as my mum couldn't be trusted not to spend it. What?! How fucking dare he!

When my grandpa died, he told his partner that she didn't need to send anything over for anyone. My grandpa used to write screen plays. I'd have loved to have one. Plus the hundreds of photos he had of me and my sisters.

And now this. He's conned my lovely, sweet uncle of 100k!!

I've told my mum she needs to get legal advice. Is it fraud? Can it be proved? I think it can be, as there will be evidence that wanker knob face never gave him his share. And the flat being in his name etc.

Maybe we should just let it go? It's one thing telling an old woman who has just lost her partner not to worry about sending anything overseas, but quite another 'buying your brother a flat, with his own money and putting it in your name'.

Is it just fraud, or is it financial abuse of a vulnerable adult?

I'm sorry this is so long, but im so sad for my uncle. He was such a sweet, sweet man. So intelligent. His life was just awful. He has suffered so much with his schizophrenia. And now he is just dead after living such a hard life. And this fucking arsehole exploits him.

Not sure if the background info is relevant. But I wanted to paint a clear picture of the kind of man he is.

[blue30]

If the flat was in nice uncles name wouldn’t it have been taken to pay for his care fees?

[blahblahnamechangeblahblah]

Well, the flat was bought for him to live in. Which he did live in. At the time, he wasn't expecting to not live independently.

He's only been in the care home for a couple of years. The flat was bought in 2008ish.

[Babyiskickingmyribs]

I’m sorry for your loss OP. Your anger is understandable. It does sound like wanker uncle exploited lovely uncle’s vulnerability to improve his own financial circumstances. But before you start trying to address by establishing whether anything illegal had occurred, have a think about what you want to achieve. Lovely uncle has just died, so he can’t directly benefit from any financial retribution you might manage to get from wanker uncle if he has acted illegally. Maybe park the thought and revisit it again in a few days or weeks when this bereavement is less raw and you are in a better position to think about what you want to happen next.

[Orangejuicemarathoner]

what did your nice uncle not have that you think he should have had?

What do you want to happen now?

Who would inherit the flat if it had been in nice uncles name?

[blahblahnamechangeblahblah]

@Babyiskickingmyribs

I’m sorry for your loss OP. Your anger is understandable. It does sound like wanker uncle exploited lovely uncle’s vulnerability to improve his own financial circumstances. But before you start trying to address by establishing whether anything illegal had occurred, have a think about what you want to achieve. Lovely uncle has just died, so he can’t directly benefit from any financial retribution you might manage to get from wanker uncle if he has acted illegally. Maybe park the thought and revisit it again in a few days or weeks when this bereavement is less raw and you are in a better position to think about what you want to happen next.

I guess all I want to achieve for him to not 'get away' with it.

I won't be doing anything. If anything was to happen, it would be my mums call. I think her plan is to sort out the funeral, and then she may speak to a solicitor. But she might not.

[PaterPower]

It depends on how your nice uncle wrote his will.

If he (for instance) split his assets in half between his two siblings, and those assets are lower than they should be because of his brother’s fraudulent behaviour, then your Mum might think it’s worth pursuing.

But it’s going to be difficult now to prove there was fraud. Your abusive uncle will just claim that his brother set the flat purchase up in that way because he “didn’t want the hassle” or because he knew he’d not long left. Even if it’s BS, it’ll be hard to disprove now your nice uncle is dead.

[Babyiskickingmyribs]

Is your grandpa’s partner still alive? Could you write to her yourself and ask if there are any family photos or one of his screenplays that you could have to remember him by? Sorry for the suggestion if that's no longer possible. Did you get your guitar in the end? One way to reduce your (totally justified) feelings of anger towards wanker uncle is to reduce the influence he is allowed to have in your life and in particular in your interactions with any family members. Accept that he is a wanker and he lacks respect for you. Give up expecting him to behave better. Bypass him in any future interactions with wider family - basically if he ever tries to speak on your behalf again you go directly to the other person and tell them what you actually want to say, let them know you don’t agree with whatever wanker uncle has said and that in general they should ignore anything he says about you because he has form for not consulting you first and not considering your feeling and needs. He’s probably a wanker to them too.

[chipshopElvis]

If your uncle with Scitzophrenia has support from a mental health team, you can let them know the situation and they may be able to advise.

[Mantlemoose]

I'm sorry for tour loss. Lovely uncle sounds just that. Practically care home fees would have been c£1k a week so if he was in a couple of years most of the £100k would be gone. Much as I would be of the I'll do this and this mindset in all honesty the stress isn't worth it. I wouldn't however have wanker uncle in my life at all.

[Longdistance]

So WU conned his brother out of money and is now going to give the flat he bought with LU money to his son. I wouldn’t let that go.

[TheYearOfSmallThings]

You could of course consult a solicitor.

But I can see reasons for not buying the flat in the name of the uncle who suffered from schizophrenia. It could affect his care entitlements, he could lose it through debts or poor financial choices, and (since it cost less than £100) the value would have disappeared in care home fees almost instantly.

Nor do I see much point leaving a flat empty when someone is not likely to be able to return to it.

I'm just not sure that your nice uncle suffered a real loss here.

Certainly your uncle should sell the flat and share the proceeds, and I would not hesitate to suggest that.

[blahblahnamechangeblahblah]

@TheYearOfSmallThings

You could of course consult a solicitor.

But I can see reasons for not buying the flat in the name of the uncle who suffered from schizophrenia. It could affect his care entitlements, he could lose it through debts or poor financial choices, and (since it cost less than £100) the value would have disappeared in care home fees almost instantly.

Nor do I see much point leaving a flat empty when someone is not likely to be able to return to it.

I'm just not sure that your nice uncle suffered a real loss here.

Certainly your uncle should sell the flat and share the proceeds, and I would not hesitate to suggest that.

The problem with my cousin living in the flat isn't that he lived there, not really. I can't imagine my uncle would have begrudged his nephew a place to live, it was that he was never asked. It was done behind his back, and when he found out, he was distressed by it. The flat is in a sought after area, surely if the concern was having the flat empty, wouldn't it have made sense to look into letting it out?

In regards to care home fees etc, if this is the case, that he was genuinely trying to ... protect (not sure of this is the right word, because surely buying property in another's name in order to avoid having to pay for your own care is some kind of fraud?) him, then fair enough. And maybe that is what has happened. But knowing him, I don't believe it to be true.

[blahblahnamechangeblahblah]

@Longdistance

So WU conned his brother out of money and is now going to give the flat he bought with LU money to his son. I wouldn’t let that go.

I don't know if he is planning on giving it to his son, my cousin, just that he has been living there for at least 2 years. Without nice uncles permission.

[blahblahnamechangeblahblah]

@Babyiskickingmyribs

Is your grandpa’s partner still alive? Could you write to her yourself and ask if there are any family photos or one of his screenplays that you could have to remember him by? Sorry for the suggestion if that's no longer possible. Did you get your guitar in the end? One way to reduce your (totally justified) feelings of anger towards wanker uncle is to reduce the influence he is allowed to have in your life and in particular in your interactions with any family members. Accept that he is a wanker and he lacks respect for you. Give up expecting him to behave better. Bypass him in any future interactions with wider family - basically if he ever tries to speak on your behalf again you go directly to the other person and tell them what you actually want to say, let them know you don’t agree with whatever wanker uncle has said and that in general they should ignore anything he says about you because he has form for not consulting you first and not considering your feeling and needs. He’s probably a wanker to them too.

Yes, I did get my guitar. My grandpa sent the money, and knob uncle bought it, and gave it to me. With the email inside the case slagging off my mum. The guitar is a treasure to me, because it's from my grandpa. I ignore any connection with the uncle.

I assume she is alive, but I don't know how to contact her. I've never met her, nor spoken to her. I might see if she is on Facebook. But I don't even know what I'd say.

We don't really have anything to do with him anyway. There isn't really any wider family. Pretty sure the last time I saw him was my grandmas funeral. I don't usually have any trouble pretending he doesn't exist, but with recent events, the disgust at him has returned.

[freshcarnation]

Have you seen a copy of the original will.

[blahblahnamechangeblahblah]

A little update from me ...

Mum has finally got hold of my uncle. She is satisfied nothing untoward has gone on in regards to uncles flat and apparently he is the one the who brought it up first.

So, I was probably overreacting because of his treatment of us all over the years.

Maybe this sadness will help my mum build bridges with her brother. As I know the loss of both of her parents, not getting on with wanker uncle and now the loss of her oldest brother has left her feeling a bit alone in the world. She has also gotten back in contact with a cousin, so hopefully the funeral will be a nice occasion where everyone can reconnect and remember just how wonderful my uncle was.

Thanks to those who commented.