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Sexual Coercion - perspective please

(33 Posts)
GilbertMarkham Fri 14-Aug-20 08:46:01

Reading several threads on here recently has reminded me about some (to me) weird behaviour by an ex that has stuck in my head.

If I wasn't interested in having sex with him, he would act a bit huffy and annoyed, but most importantly, he would on occasion go and masturbate and in retrospect make it obvious he was doing so.

One occasion that sticks on my head was when we went on a break to a nice place, we had had sex at one point but later I think.i wasn't up for it and he made it clear he was going to masturbate (quite huffily to my memory) and he then did so in bathroom, with the door open I think. I remember being able to hear him and feeling uncomfortable and bemused (because no man I'd ever been in a relationship with had five anything like that ... They wouldn't almost announce they were going fir a wank and they would do it discretely/privately if they were).

Lots of other issues emerged in the relationship and it over those, but I've thought about this is increasingly every time I see a threads with sexual coercion on here and wonder; is that what that was.

Was it a weird type of (attempted) sexual coercion, and when I didn't say "oh dont go and wank, we'll do ABC" or not say anything but show myself to be up for it, he chose to do this weird passive aggressive thing of making it obvious he was wanking or wanting me to hear it?

It's hard to describe, it was almost like "fuck you" wanking grin.

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GilbertMarkham Fri 14-Aug-20 08:47:21

*it ended over those

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ConfusedNoMore Fri 14-Aug-20 08:56:54

Weird and passive aggressive. I suppose it could be seen as coercive but my ex was much more overt. He'd grab and paw me. Tell me my body was "half his anyway". Be angry and aggressive for long periods of time. Tell me we weren't meeting the national average of how many times! Call me a nun and frigid and tell me to see a sex therapist. And... In the end... Turned out he was screwing prostitutes in our house. Nice guy hmm

Glad we're not with our exes now op!

GilbertMarkham Fri 14-Aug-20 09:05:01

Weird and passive aggressive.

That's what I thought.

Tell me my body was "half his anyway". Be angry and aggressive for long periods of time. Tell me we weren't meeting the national average of how many times! Call me a nun and frigid and tell me to see a sex therapist.

Wow; sex pesty, entitled, coercive, abusive ... I suppose we shouldn't be surprised he turned out to be a user of sex workers too, though still shocking.
Dude sounds sex obsessed and obviously totally lacking integrity.

Ironically the man I'm referring to above referred to prostitution as "paid rape" .. which I agree with.
Pity his judgement in that area didn't carry across to other aspects of his life.

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GilbertMarkham Fri 14-Aug-20 09:10:16

Mine was nowhere near as extreme as the above, but he would get huffy and annoyed if I didn't want to have sex. He would mention our sex life had dwindled (which it had to be fair) and he says a couple if times that "he'd wondered how a thirty something girl could fancy a forty something man and this confirmed it". He apparently didn't wonder that when he was chasing me and asking me out confused.

But the huffy, passive aggressive wanking thing was .. weird. It made me uncomfortable at the time, and I've thought about it as possibly coercive since then.

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SoulofanAggron Fri 14-Aug-20 10:13:01

I had one very similar to this. He said 'Oh WHEN are we going to have sex.' I was actually slightly assertive and said 'when I want to, and not before.' He said 'I should hope so.'

So, not only was I expected to have sex when he wanted regardless of whether I wanted it or not, I was also expected to be in the mood whenever he wanted.

After this exchange he lay and had a wank next to me.

Then he left, after telling our friend I was 'a tease.' He was an older guy but even so, how dated is that comment?

Anything that makes you feel pressured to have sex is sexual coercion. The storming around and the wanking, the comments.

Weird and passive aggressive. I suppose it could be seen as coercive

It is coercive.

He'd grab and paw me. Tell me my body was "half his anyway". Be angry and aggressive for long periods of time. Tell me we weren't meeting the national average of how many times! Call me a nun and frigid and tell me to see a sex therapist

The comments and pointed display of moods are coercion. The pawing on top of it is also sexual assault. That doesn't mean OP's experience isn't sexual coercion. It is.

Ironically the man I'm referring to above referred to prostitution as "paid rape" .. which I agree with.

Some men pretend to be 'woke' to try and impress women/ get away with things by having a front of being that way.

I've had to go into therapy and one incident is particularly disturbing to me. I've mentioned it on here before but I won't stop mentioning it when it's relevant, it was so awful. sad

I was trying to talk to him about something deep but cheerful, as a friend (which we supposedly were- friends with benefits.) I finish a sentence and he quickly went 'that's good now s* my c***.'

It was so rude- and yet I did it, when I didn't want to at all, I was wanting to chat. What profoundly disturbs me is that I did it, even though he'd been so disrespectful. sad It was like the nature of the relationship was such that he had complete control over my actions. I think it can be hard to get across to people how awful it is. It literally makes me sick. Thinking about it, I suppose because it was sexual assault. I didn't want to do the thing at all, and he could talk to me that way and I didn't tell him to fuck off, because I was so scared off losing the 'friendship.' He had manipulated me into such a state of lack of agency that I did that to someone who had spoken to me that way.

It's just dawned on me that him doing that probably means he knew I would do it, too. If he thought it would lead to any other outcome, he probably wouldn't have said it. envy
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Anyway, sorry I whittered on in your thread @GilbertMarkham . It won't happen again. I suppose part of what I'm saying is that this pressure etc and our responses to it can be very damaging.

How do you feel after realizing this?

Another ex I recently realized was abusive in a lot of ways. Realizing it actually made me feel better, as it kind of made sense of how difficult the breakup was, because that was when he did most of the verbal/emotional abuse. Before, I didn't know why it effected me so much.

iamthrough Fri 14-Aug-20 10:20:25

I have been wondering the same about my now ExH re sexual coercion.

He got very huffy and emotional if we hadn't had sex for his expected frequency. He wanted to introduce a "quota" of 3 times a week for sex, I never agreed to the "quota" system but if we hadn't done it for a short while the huffing started. He often told me to go to the Drs to get pills to increase my sex drive. Towards the end he said i must have sexual dysfunction or be menopausal. I had to have a hormone test to prove i wasn't. He was never ever forceful thank goodness but over the years I learnt to just get on with the deed - regardless of weather I wanted to or not as it made life easier.

Before we eventually divorced we had counselling for a bit - and the counsellor suggested that he may have been a little addicted to sex.

In your situation I'm not sure I would count it as coercion - but I would say its weird. Kind of depends how the rest of his behaviour was. I do find it astonishing how many threads on here - and tales from real life friends, how men seem to feel entitled to sex when in a relationship. It's like they forget they still need to make an effort for us to WANT to have sex with them? or that sometimes we just don't fancy it - and that should be OK?

GilbertMarkham Fri 14-Aug-20 10:27:45

Anyway, sorry I whittered on in your thread

Whitter away smile.

It's interesting you experienced the "passive aggressive" wanking thing too.

I'm not quite sure what the psychology of behind it .. is it "look at what i'm having to do because you won't have sex" or "you may not want to have sex but I'll make you aware of this/experience this whether you want to or not", I just don't know.

There is def a fuck you element to it.

I mean, unless you specifically choose to do mutual masturbation or one person chooses to "masturbate" the other; it's not something you do in someone presence, you do it privately. It's inappropriate.

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Sakurami Fri 14-Aug-20 10:28:07

2 of my exes got huffy if I didn't want to have sex. And I stopped wanting to have sex with them because of that behaviour and also because we weren't intimate emotionally so I didn't want to have it. Whereas if I'm happy with them and feel connected and they put effort into our relationship, I have a high sex drive.

peonyfairy03 Fri 14-Aug-20 10:28:47

My ExH was like this he thought that as his wife it was my duty the same as washing up and cooking. He would then mastabate when I went up to bed in the lounge and leave the dirty tissues on the work top for me to clean up the next morning.

GilbertMarkham Fri 14-Aug-20 10:57:38

Im trying to imagine, if my partner didn't want to have sex on a particular occasion; going and masturbating with or without sex toys in sight or hearing distance of them, then leaving lubricant or tissues or something lying around in their way ....and I can't; because I'd feel pathetic and petty and quite aggressive. No such concerns for them apparently.

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GilbertMarkham Fri 14-Aug-20 10:59:12

There's seems to be a. "you won't have sex with me so look what I have to do!" mentality that seems childish and entitled (and back to passive aggressive) behind it.

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GilbertMarkham Fri 14-Aug-20 11:05:16

Kind of depends how the rest of his behaviour was

The relationship ended for various reasons but he was also controlling, insecure, jealous etc. (At least he was trying to be controlling and we were clashing because of it).
The longer I was in a relationship with him, the more chauvinist I found him.
He was also prone to temper outbursts, he describes himself as "fiery" but "there's no harm in me and that's what matters".

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SoulofanAggron Fri 14-Aug-20 11:18:18

@iamthrough OP said he also did the 'huffs.' So it is as much coercion as the incident you describe with your ex in that respect. More so when on top of that he was doing the stropping off to have a wank.

Shirley2020 Fri 14-Aug-20 12:14:47

Just found out well basically caught my husband red handed having a wank watching porn. He blames STRESS where as hes been neglecting me for past 2 years only having sex maybe once a fortnight ...no intimacy whatsoever not even a kiss or a cuddle ...and now I know why it was because the basket has been getting his thrills from watching porn and then on the poor occasion he did think of me was wen he actually wanted to feel a physical presence around his manhood he would get me to 'jump start' his motor ...I am crying as I text this .. .for 2 years I'm thinking that my poor hubby is tired overworked stressed and feeling low ...how fkn stupid was I 😢

Doyoumind Fri 14-Aug-20 12:18:44

My ex would nag and nag and call me a disgusting, ugly bitch if I wouldn't so I suppose there are degrees to everything.

SoulofanAggron Fri 14-Aug-20 13:48:15

so I suppose there are degrees to everything.

@Doyoumind I think most degrees of it are unacceptable and dumping offences. At most they could be told once that it's not ok, then when they do it again, dumped.

I even feel uncomfortable when I hear of someone asking/telling their partner they want more sex. Even if the person said it nicely, the person being asked would still feel a degree of pressure.
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Another reason I'm happily single is I CBA with the 'chores' of sex. Like you mightn't feel like giving oral or manual sex for long one time, if at all that day or whatever, but you feel you have to do it as it's expected as part of sex.

There are some women who don't give oral at all. I kind of admire them for that. I mean, I know some people like it but I think for a lot of women it's a chore, at least some of the time. I have a friend whose wife doesn't do it. He is quite happy with what they do do.

Pokske Fri 14-Aug-20 14:00:20

Yuck what a bastard. I would throw a bucket of cold water over him when he goes to "relieve himself" in the bathroom with the door open. We are not animals but he really does behave like one.

GilbertMarkham Fri 14-Aug-20 14:14:16

My ex would nag and nag and call me a disgusting, ugly bitch

So that was going to make you likely to want to have sex then or in the future?

And chauvinist men think they're more logical than women. hmm

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GilbertMarkham Fri 14-Aug-20 14:15:55

I would throw a bucket of cold water over him when he goes to "relieve himself" in the bathroom with the door open.

grin I should have.

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Doyoumind Fri 14-Aug-20 14:22:29

Gilbert it was to make sure that if I wouldn't have sex with him he was going to make sure I never felt comfortable having sex with anyone ever again. Plus he would get upset, apologise and then go for the make up sex angle. He was a genuinely abusive twat.

SoulofanAggron Fri 14-Aug-20 15:55:18

He was a genuinely abusive twat.

@Doyoumind It certainly sounds like it. sad Glad you're free. flowers

trogladite Fri 14-Aug-20 17:09:01

Its not okay to say that this type of sexual coercion isnt as bad. It makes you feel as used and disgusting as more 'physical'sexual assaults and you havent even got the 'kudos' to say heres the bruises/heres the evidence cause although you both know its happening they deny it.

Its psychological abuse in one of its most sinister forms.

My stbxh did this after the birth of my daughter, silent treatment for days until i had sex. I cried through it cause i was in so much pain, he cracked on then after he was done was all 'awww are you ok?' And gave me a hug. After hed knowingly put me through intense pain when i wasnt ready. Its sick - and its not "less bad" because he didnt physically force me, it makes it harder to heal from in many ways (or different rather than harder, but certainly not easier)

trogladite Fri 14-Aug-20 18:05:26

That anecdote was one of the worst occasions btw, i had 9 years of passive agressive coercion into sex prior to that... and he wondered why i never wanted it - he actually blamed me, and i believed it!

ConfusedNoMore Fri 14-Aug-20 18:52:29

@trogladite "My stbxh did this after the birth of my daughter, silent treatment for days until i had sex. I cried through it cause i was in so much pain, he cracked on then after he was done was all 'awww are you ok?' And gave me a hug. After hed knowingly put me through intense pain when i wasnt ready. Its sick - and its not "less bad" because he didnt physically force me, it makes it harder to heal from in many ways (or different rather than harder, but certainly not easier)"

You are 100% correct and I'm sorry if my post up thread implied anything else. I also suffered this from my ex post partum. I remember clenching my teeth through the pain after congratulating myself for getting baby to sleep so we could find a window to have sex. He stopped when I kept wincing in pain and said "this is shit" before abruptly pulling out leaving me in tears as he went back to his computer. I felt like nothing. He had no empathy at all. But he was v abusive in many ways. Because some of us have had more going on, doesn't mean we should take away from other's experiences.

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