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Seriously we seem to live in a world where fault lies with the victim....why?

(43 Posts)
Fightingback16 Sun 09-Aug-20 12:03:57

Sorry for another question like this!

I’ve been reading other people’s threads who have other people making them defend there position as a victim.

For example, if you left yourself be abused then that is your problem. Also rape trials on the news where how the women are dressed is brought up....how does this effect the actual crime?

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Fightingback16 Sun 09-Aug-20 12:13:18

Probably can answer my own question, patriarchy. Makes me mad!

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namechange12a Sun 09-Aug-20 12:29:56

Look at the way women's sexuality is viewed historically, from the time of Eve eating the apple. Genital mutilation, breast ironing, body covering and women even being imprisoned for being raped in some countries.

Rape survivor's clothes, including their underwear, would be handed to the jury during rape trials so they could see how the 'slut' had led on the accused. We think we live in a modern society but the stats on rape convictions prove otherwise.

I remember the trial of a man who had tried to sexually assault a 9 year old and the judge said, 'She's no angel.' No, that wasn't in the Victorian age, it was the 90s when, incidentally it was decided that rape was no longer acceptable in marriage.

lookslikeleaves Sun 09-Aug-20 12:40:09

Why Women Are Blamed For Everything: Exploring Victim Blaming Of Women Subjected to Violence and Trauma

Brilliant book by Jessica Taylor, published earlier this year.

H1978 Sun 09-Aug-20 13:31:52

It’s true the victims are always the first to be blamed and the perpetrators have any number of excuses as to why they did what they did.

kerfuffling Sun 09-Aug-20 13:36:59

I agree, it is always the victim being blamed, or the school, or social services, or the police etc etc etc for 'failing to prevent it' and never the evil bastard perpetrator who committed the crime.

Having said that, I do think that the probation service and the courts sometimes need to explain why they let the dangerous fucker back out in the first place.

heartache590 Sun 09-Aug-20 13:46:27

Look at Tedx and the feminist who spent a year with MRA. We have the run off still from the 90s attitudes, but it is compounded by the use of false allegations by a minority of women, without understanding the severity of the allegation, for strategic personal gain.

Nobody agrees that rape is right, but there are no repercussions on making a false allegation that causes a man to lose his job, his home, his children and in some cases their life without even being charged for the offence.

Women cant even be legally charged with rape, even if they drugged and forced themselves on a man. Work that one out!

VettiyaIruken Sun 09-Aug-20 13:51:20

I think a other element of it is fear that it could happen to them
So they tell themselves that the victi. did X, y, z wrong and you would never do that.

I wouldn't go out alone at night/wear a mini skirt
Right down to I wouldn't leave my window open overnight / walk down the street with my fancy phone in my hand.

And then the arguments about where taking personal responsibility for your safety and security crosses the line into victim blaming.

Regretsy Sun 09-Aug-20 14:20:42

Hah I just started a thread on how I’m pissed off with the patriarchy. Can we form a secret patriarchy fighting team. Over 26 women and children have been killed by men in domestic violence in the U.K. since the start of lockdown alone. I say over as that stat was taken about a month ago. I don’t think you’re really wondering why, I think you’re rightly pissed off. It feels like trying to fight a tidal wave.

Regretsy Sun 09-Aug-20 14:24:37

I’ve been trying to think of an education programme to combat it and all I can think of is educating the girls on how to avoid men like this. That’s how strong the system of patriarchal oppression is, I can’t even fathom a way of educating boys on this. And educating boys is something I have over 7 years experience in, including those in units who have attacked women!

namechange12a Sun 09-Aug-20 14:34:10

@heartache590 There are repercussions for making fake allegations against people, as I'm sure you're aware. Wasting police time and perverting the course of justice.

Fake rape claims are absolutely miniscule. It's something like 2-4% and those include charges 'judged' to be false, not found to be false.

You are turning this discussion, yet again, into a what about the menz derail.

Fightingback16 Sun 09-Aug-20 14:40:37

Some men also suffer in this one size fits all society, we all suffer, women more so!

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Fightingback16 Sun 09-Aug-20 14:42:23

Some young men at my work having a discussion and one says to the other “you’re such a women”! Great, these are the next generation!

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Thisfucker Sun 09-Aug-20 14:43:31

heartache590

Look at Tedx and the feminist who spent a year with MRA. We have the run off still from the 90s attitudes, but it is compounded by the use of false allegations by a minority of women, without understanding the severity of the allegation, for strategic personal gain.

Nobody agrees that rape is right, but there are no repercussions on making a false allegation that causes a man to lose his job, his home, his children and in some cases their life without even being charged for the offence.

Women cant even be legally charged with rape, even if they drugged and forced themselves on a man. Work that one out!

That didn't take long. A post blaming women.

SerenityNowwwww Sun 09-Aug-20 14:44:18

I think it was Socrates who explained it thus...

Man walks down the street and gets hit on the head and his money is stolen - not his fault

Woman walks downs the street - ITS ALL HER FAULT

GilbertMarkham Sun 09-Aug-20 14:58:08

Rape survivor's clothes, including their underwear, would be handed to the jury during rape trials so they could see how the 'slut' had led on the accused. We think we live in a modern society but the stats on rape convictions prove otherwise.

Very recently a barrister in the republic of Ireland defending a rape defendant/raised that the woman was wearing a thong/g string during the trial.

I used to wear a thong because wine s magazines told me for years that visible panty line was terrible looking, uncouth, inelegant etc. Apparently all that time I was unknowingly telling men I wanted to have sex.

Incidentally I was also sexually harassed by an American man in a train station who shouted something about my shorts and added "no panties, I see!" because.i was wearing a thong so big pant lines didnt show through my white shorts. I was 21 in a different country and was incredibly shocked and embarrassed.

But we're always sexual, slutty temptresses, right.

GilbertMarkham Sun 09-Aug-20 14:59:02

*women's magazines

Fightingback16 Sun 09-Aug-20 15:06:49

Everyday I plaster make up on my face....why?

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Krazynights34 Sun 09-Aug-20 15:11:20

@heartache590 - women cannot rape because we do not have a penis (that is the legal definition). If a person has a penis they can rape. Otherwise they cannot.
People without a penis can and do sexually assault men however.
But given that the majority of people I’ve spoken to about my sexual assault (I wasn’t the perpetrator!) either described what happened to me as “flirting”, one poster on MN describing it as “not sexual assault” but “being overfamiliar” , “not sexual” m, “not a crime” and “it’s not like he grabbed your tits”, (and most of those comments came from women), I’d really like if it were compulsory that education included teaching children what inappropriate touching/sexual assault/rape means.
False claims is such a red herring- anyone who gives an interview to a police officer and makes a false claim leaves themselves open to charges as a pp said.
Just look at the Times coverage of the rape allegation by the unnamed MP.
Institutions are set up to stop victims being able to be taken seriously- we don’t even need to get to a tiny percentage of false claims to undermine women’s truths.

AuntMasha Sun 09-Aug-20 15:11:55

I think women are conditioned by prevailing patriarchal attitudes to blame themselves too.

One of the prevailing attitudes which we’ve inherited from African slavery is the myth that all black men want to rape white women. Ida B Wells in her book, ‘Southern Horrors’ states that this view is a ‘projection’ perpetuated by white men because of the horrific frequency with which black women were raped by white men under slavery. What I’m trying to say is that patriarchal systems seek to alleviate the guilt of oppressors by finding ways to blame their victims. I think it’s utter cowardice and an attempt to block progress and discourse, to shut victims down so that their plight doesn’t prick the consciousness of the dominant group.

Whenonedoorcloses Sun 09-Aug-20 15:12:49

I am a victim of rape by my ex boyfriend while together in a relationship, it's so confusing and leaves you powerless, and I was advised to not press charges by a womans aid refuge I had to live at after I left him because of this. I sometimes bump into my ex who has now gotten married and all so honky dory with him while I recover silently. I am far from being alone. I have spoken to many women who have silently walked on because no one is interested in protecting you. The police is useless and yes the blame will always lie with the victim.

GilbertMarkham Sun 09-Aug-20 15:30:03

women cannot rape because we do not have a penis (that is the legal definition).

Unless you're a trans woman of course - who we can't call a trans woman hmm.

GilbertMarkham Sun 09-Aug-20 15:30:49

Apparently sex crimes are now being recorded and reported as being by wimen, when it's actually trans women.

SerenityNowwwww Sun 09-Aug-20 15:31:23

GilbertMarkham

*women cannot rape because we do not have a penis (that is the legal definition).*

Unless you're a trans woman of course - who we can't call a trans woman hmm.

Yes.... Up to a point, Lord Copper...

plantlife Sun 09-Aug-20 15:43:50

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