To not know how to deal with DS and DBIL breaking lockdown with vulnerable DF and lying

[5SecondRuleJr]

My parents, DS and DBIL live in the same city, near each other. I live in another city. DS has a DC aged 2. DBIL is a doctor and has worked on corona wards, antibody test is clear. My DF has been told he is on the vulnerable list by his GP. He received chemotherapy and radiation for an aggressive brain cancer starting in Jan and ending a couple of weeks ago. He’s 66, but his doctors have said he’s aged during treatment. We are BAME. He had underlying hypertension and pre-diabetes before his cancer was diagnosed.

DS and DBIL insist on breaking lockdown to visit my DF with their son. I’ve tried reasoning with them and so now they pretend they haven’t been. My DF has suffered some cognitive decline due to treatment so accidentally sent me pictures of him and DM with my nephew taken today. It’s not the first time since lockdown, but DS has never mentioned visiting my parents.

I feel so helpless and frustrated. My DF just doesn’t have the mental werewithal to resist when people visit him, he is so lonely. My DM will never go against my DS, she’s the quintessential golden child. My DS just won’t listen to me and worse, won’t tell me when she visits. My DBIL insists that as a doctor he’s a better judge of risk than me. He’s checked my DFs blood test results on the hospital system and decided DF is fine. I’m just so hurt and scared. They won’t obey lockdown and then they lie to me about meeting.

I have a good relationship with my sister usually but when I called her today to explain how I feel, she asked me to only communicate in writing and now won’t respond to my messages. I just don’t know what to do.

[5SecondRuleJr]

I feel like I’m failing my DF

[Taddda]

I'd be weary of anyone asking me to only communicate in writing...DS or not?

Are they expecting you to report them? (Or have you said you would?)

[MissEliza]

Your 'D'BIL is a dick. He shouldn't be looking up your df's medical records. Are you sure he's actually a doctor as his stance is idiotic. My dh has several doctors in the family. Although they live in a country with low infection rates, they are keeping themselves and their dcs away from their dgm as she suffered from cancer last year. Your dsis sounds awful- refusing to answer your texts. What does your dm have to say?

[7to25]

Your BIL could be in very serious trouble for checking those blood results.

[5SecondRuleJr]

She’s a lawyer and says I’ve been unclear, but it’s not my guidelines?

[5SecondRuleJr]

@MissEliza I called her around 6 and said I’m really upset. She said, I’ll call you back and now isn’t answering my calls

[PixiKitKat]

If he's actually looked up your father's records that is a breach in data protection unless it went through as a subject access request and there is a written form of authority stating DBIL can have access to the information.
You could report him to his hospital for that! It's actually a criminal offence and DBIL can be prosecuted for it.

[Taddda]

She’s a lawyer and says I’ve been unclear, but it’s not my guidelines?

That makes sense with the communication in writing request and her not responding-

Its tricky to know what to advise....They're definitely BU, very- but what are your options without a total rift forming between you and the rest of your family?

Hopefully someone else has some helpful ideas for you, but your not being unreasonable for being concerned for your DF- difficult and impossible situation.

Sorry Op-

[MitziK]

And what Pixi has written is exactly what I'd communicate to the lawyer DSis by email.

[5SecondRuleJr]

@PixiKitKat I’m not sure, but I wouldn’t be surprised if my DF has given DBIL authority. He’s actually been great during the treatment process. I’m not a doctor so I called my dads GP to check if he remains vulnerable. The GP said he is but DBIL feels GPs are just saying that to everyone.

[Taddda]

And what Pixi has written is exactly what I'd communicate to the lawyer DSis by email.

I'd think DS is already aware the OP could do this which is why she's 'shut up shop'....

[5SecondRuleJr]

I’m definitely not going to report BIL. I just don’t know what to do. Usually when DM and DSiS get set on something (like socialising in lockdown) I’ve learnt to leave them to it. Any attempt at discussion is seen as aggression, and they will agree with me and then do what they want to and lie about it where possible.

Should I give up? I can’t knowingly put DF at further risk.

Should I text them and say; your lying and refusal to discuss this has hurt me, please don’t contact me for a few days?

Should I try to reason with them or convince them?

I’m so lost.

[Taddda]

Should I text them and say; your lying and refusal to discuss this has hurt me

This sounds like a way forward- I wouldn't add the 'please don't contact me' yet, but definitely let them know your hurt and why, then see what the response is.

If its continuing to lie to you, then I'd add the 'don't contact me, until we can have an honest conversation'.

[5SecondRuleJr]

I wrote this to my DSIs:
When you lie, you take away my capacity to contribute my opinion. When you lie, you make me feel bad. I’d prefer it if you were honest.

[Moondust001]

I associate that you are worried and nothing is going to change that. But have you considered that your father is an adult and understands the risks he is taking? He is very ill yes, and I'm sorry to say this, but he must know that his entire life is now "at risk" on a daily basis. Perhaps seeing family is more important to him than the risk involved. He wouldn't be the only person to decide that. You aren't failing him. But you might be by pursuing this. Be very careful that this isn't about what you want instead of what he wants. If he is potentially facing his mortality anyway, he may decide that quality of life and family are the memories he wants to take with him. Not isolation and loneliness in a lockdown.

[Taddda]

Personally I'd be a bit more demanding of the honesty and more expressive of how hurt I was due to the lack of it- but I'd say that's a decent e-mail to send.

Wait and see if she responds now Op?

[Dozer]

Sadly, people with aggressive brain cancer usually don’t live long. This makes decisions about covid risk v difficult.

You’re DF presumably has mental capacity to make decisions? And your DM definitely does. They have both decided to see your sister, her H and their grandchild.

[5SecondRuleJr]

@Moondust001
I really understand what you’re saying and that’s part of the reason I posted. My dads cancer was aggressive and difficult to treat and took him to the absolute brink and brought him back. Honestly, he will never be the person he once was. When he was struggling with treatment, I told him if he wanted to stop treatment and try palliative care, I would support him completely. I know how much he suffered for that treatment.

But now he finds it very difficult to retain information and gets very easily confused. If he was mentally well but physically ill, I’d support him making his own decisions. But I feel he’s unable to take a clear decision. When I spoke to him and explained the risks he said he didn’t want to see them. But when they turn up I think he’s unable to resist the temptation. In a nutshell, I’m not sure if he can take an informed decision and I know how much he suffered during treatment to prolong his life. I don’t want it to be for nothing.

[5SecondRuleJr]

@Dozer
If you have experience with brain cancers, he had a primary CNS lymphoma. It was difficult to treat because of his age and the position of the tumour, but if his treatment is successful, the prognosis is about 5 years which is a lifetime of extra time for me to have with my dad.

[5SecondRuleJr]

@Taddda thank you so much for your advice, it makes me feel a bit less alone.

[Khione]

You are being unreasonable. Your father is vulnerable and also has some cognitive challenges. Your family are giving him some life. Without family it is just existence.

Your DS and DBIL are absolutely doing what I would do in similar circumstances.

[Khione]

You are selfishly concerned with having more time with your Dad - which may or may not happen even without CV

Your DS and DBiL are giving him some life more now.

You say he acquiesces to what they want - Maybe talking to you, he tell you what you want to hear.

See him if you can - so long as you have been socially distancing you are very very low risk to him.

Or choose to buy into the fear

[Taddda]

The Op doesn't deserve to be lied to by her family- she has concerns, it's her Dad also and considering what they've all been through it's the dishonesty and lack of regard for her feelings thats the issue here.

They're also distancing from her which must feel heartbreaking-

She wants the opportunity to spend as much time as she possibly can with her Dad following his treatment, but not by putting him at risk...its right for her to question her DS about this.

If I'm wrong about any of this OP I apologise, but I dont think you deserve a YABU on this.

[Moondust001]

The Op doesn't deserve to be lied to by her family- she has concerns, it's her Dad also and considering what they've all been through it's the dishonesty and lack of regard for her feelings thats the issue here.

That's one interpretation. But there is another. The OP very clearly wants what is best for her father, in her opinion. But hers is one opinion, and one which she has stated very strongly. To the extent that she has been speaking to her fathers GP - so, actually interfering because his GP should not be speaking to anyone else about his treatment or condition.

In actual fact the family didn't "lie" to her. They "didn't mention" it, and given that the OP has clearly decided that her father is to have no visits from his family, not mentioning it is perhaps understandable. She says that she has made her feelings clear - and I suspect that she very much has. To the extent that her sister is now saying that she will only communicate with her in writing!

The reality here is that her father (and her mother) have mental capacity. In the OP's view her father has diminished capacity, but that is not the legal view. He has a right to make decisions for himself. If he is posting about the visits then they clearly make him happy.

The reality is that her father may not have that much time left to him, and nobody knows how long the rules on shielding may have to stay. Quite possibly for whatever time he has left, whether that is months or years. If her father decides that a he wants to see his family in whatever time he has left, it really isn't anyone else's right to tell him he's wrong. He is still a functioning adult.

[lifestooshort123]

I'm sorry but I agree with MoonDust. Your parents have decided what they want to do and you might have to just sit back and hope for the best outcome. Please don't fall out with your sister over this - you've made your point now let it rest.