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Can stbx stay on the mortgage and it not effect his ability to get another mortgage?

(104 Posts)
Rainbow03 Tue 11-Jun-19 22:35:17

If my stbx can’t be removed from the mortgage after a divorce as I don’t earn enough to take it on solely, is there anyway to stop it from effecting his lending ability on a new flat? I can afford it on my own but the bank doesn’t view it that way.

I don’t want him to be effected and I would take 100% liability for it!

Rainbow03 Tue 11-Jun-19 22:38:15

If he has to declare the current mortgage payments then I doubt he could afford a 2 bed flat!

Aquamarine1029 Tue 11-Jun-19 22:38:42

Unless he makes enough money to afford both the house and the flat solely on his own, his debt to income ratio will be too high to get approved for the flat.

Manclife1 Tue 11-Jun-19 22:39:04

They’d have to take into consideration the current mortgage so would affect how much he could loan.

Aquamarine1029 Tue 11-Jun-19 22:39:21

Of course he has to declare it. It's on his credit history. There's no hiding it.

Mary1935 Tue 11-Jun-19 22:39:32

No basically - he can check with a mortgage broker who will tell him what he can borrow but they will add in your mortgage and what’s owed. He needs to contact mortgage advisors.

emotionalaffair Tue 11-Jun-19 22:41:01

He'll also need to pay extra stamp duty and possibly have to get a mortgage with a lower loan to value as it will count as a second home.

iboopyournose Wed 12-Jun-19 00:01:32

If you pay the mortgage soley yourself for a period of time you can apply for him to be removed from the mortgage as you can prove you can afford it and pay a fee to the bank and a solicitor to remove him from the title deeds.

Singlenotsingle Wed 12-Jun-19 00:04:07

He'll just have to rent for the time being, won't he?

Rainbow03 Wed 12-Jun-19 08:11:43

He won’t rent. The deal for me to stay in the family home is that he can buy a flat. If he can’t then all other deals are off and he will dig his heels in and make it very difficult. We will then have to sell and I will struggle to house me and our son.

MotherofTerriers Wed 12-Jun-19 08:14:19

Could you take a second job temporarily to improve your own credit rating and take over the mortgage

Rainbow03 Wed 12-Jun-19 08:22:10

He has offered to put his part of the equity in the house in a trust for our son and to then use all he saving (about £25,000) to use as a deposit. I have agreed to this as the alternate is him becoming a monster! I thought it seemed fair that he take all the savings as he needs to house himself and son when he has him! Does this sound bad?

Rainbow03 Wed 12-Jun-19 08:23:47

I have our son 5 days a week and I work 3 already, 2 of those days he has our son. When he starts pre school can 100% pick up lots over overtime!

TheBrockmans Wed 12-Jun-19 08:28:56

Also consider that he might need to pay additional stamp duty if the flat is seen as a second home and he is not off the deeds within two years.

palahvah Wed 12-Jun-19 08:29:20

In addition to the advice from pp above, I would also contact a mortgage broker and see what they would advise you do to put yourself in the best possible position to get the mortgage by yourself.
Have you checked your credit file - is it up to date, on electoral roll, etc?

Rainbow03 Wed 12-Jun-19 08:36:49

Yes I’ve been an done a soft mortgage and it’s literally my earnings stopping me from getting what I need. I signed up and checked my credit score, it’s 999.

Can you be off the deeds and on the mortgage?

OliviaBenson Wed 12-Jun-19 08:38:41

Don't agree to anything without legal advice. You need to ensure you get a fair settlement and that isn't dictated by placating your ex.

LemonTT Wed 12-Jun-19 08:41:09

Can you both afford a two bedroom property ? If so that meets your respective needs and that is the solution you both need to work towards.

titchy Wed 12-Jun-19 08:46:41

Ffs don't agree to him putting th equity in trust for your dc- you need it. Lawyer up for the sake of housing your dc.

Lairydea Wed 12-Jun-19 08:53:21

I don't think equity is viewed the same way as savings when splitting assets. Are you married? Either way I think you need legal advice before you go much further - forget about placating him, if you're splitting up his issues are no longer your concern...

Rainbow03 Wed 12-Jun-19 09:21:57

Yes we married, 11 years. I’m going tomo to see a solicitor to talk through what he proposed. Otherwise we are going to have to sell which neither of us wants as the house is an investment for our son and has been in my family for a long time. There is a large chunk of money, about £60,000 that my parents gave to me for it after we were married and I want to protect it
He has said that if I bring in lawyers he will fight it, quit his job and stay at home on benefits, I don’t have money to fight him with lawyers when we are only talking about £150,000 although including equity which is about £120,000. I have no savings of my own.

titchy Wed 12-Jun-19 09:26:57

He's bullshittinf. If he quits his job he won't be able to buy anywhere else will he. Call his bluff.

Rainbow03 Wed 12-Jun-19 09:30:30

But if he quits his job he said he is going nowhere, he will not move out the family home. He is serious, he is crazy!

LemonTT Wed 12-Jun-19 09:33:55

You will struggle to protect money you received during an 11 year marriage. It is all in the pot at this stage unless you have an agreement that says otherwise. This is probably an unreasonable red line.

Your settlement will be based on need. And as far as I can see you don’t need to keep the house. This is your issue and this red line is causing the legal problems. His ask to have sufficient deposit for a 2 bed is actually on the reasonable side. So when you ignore his bluster he has a good case. Plus the money in trust isn’t going to be a settlement for you which will be his obligation in the divorce settlement. His obligations to his children are dealt separately and cannot be negotiated away.

Rainbow03 Wed 12-Jun-19 09:38:30

My only problem is I couldn’t afford a 2 bed flat and I can’t get a mortgage so I don’t know the solution. What we have now is only a small bungalow, about £50,000 more than the cheapest 2 bed flat in our area. All I could think of is asking my mum to help me, she is in a position to but I don’t know if they would accept this.

Rainbow03 Wed 12-Jun-19 09:40:05

The bungalow has 2 small bedrooms and a room we couldn’t even fit a cot in, it’s small.

titchy Wed 12-Jun-19 09:42:45

There's no money in trust...

His idea won't work as others have said so you'll have to sell the house. If he quits his job, you'll have to sell the house - and may well keep more of the equity.

Either way you'll be selling the house. Lawyering up means you get a bette deal and maybe some of his pension.

Rainbow03 Wed 12-Jun-19 09:52:47

His pension he relatively new, he asked me to set it up, it’s probably worth about £13,000 now.

ceirrno Wed 12-Jun-19 10:48:38

@emotionalaffair He'll also need to pay extra stamp duty and possibly have to get a mortgage with a lower loan to value as it will count as a second home.

That won't be an issue, there's an exemption for that in scenarios like this

Rainbow03 Wed 12-Jun-19 18:31:57

The other option I was given by the lawyer was a Mesher order where we can determine the triggers. For example he told me he doesn’t want me meeting a man and letting him live in the house.

I thought that you would only need to sell a house if it was much bigger than your needs?

TheBrockmans Wed 12-Jun-19 18:43:53

he told me he doesn’t want me meeting a man and letting him live in the house.

But he could get on with his life and get a girlfriend? He could be constantly questioning you and ds about your love life real or imagined. Doesn't sound ideal.

Rainbow03 Wed 12-Jun-19 18:51:39

I don’t think he would like a man in any house I owned at the moment, hopefully this will disappear eventually.

Tbh the family home doesn’t remind me of him at all. I did all the decorating myself and with my dad. Me and my mum did a lot in the garden. He had absolutely no interest in anything.

Rainbow03 Wed 12-Jun-19 18:54:22

All the memories I have of my dad from the last few years are in that house, all the decorating and the laughing and joking. Then he got cancer and died last year. I had lived away for 15 years prior so don’t have so many memories then.

stucknoue Wed 12-Jun-19 18:59:22

We are going to be in the same situation, I spoke to a mortgage broker who said he can get a mortgage but he is a high earner and we have a low mortgage with tons of equity. If needed though I will borrow from my parents

Rainbow03 Wed 12-Jun-19 19:29:05

Our mortgage is just under £60,000 with about £140,000 equity and my stbx earns 5x my salary.

TheBrockmans Wed 12-Jun-19 22:07:19

I don’t think he would like a man in any house I owned at the moment, hopefully this will disappear eventually.

He probably won't but at least if it isn't a condition of you staying in the house he won't have any say over it. If it is a condition then it gives him a licence to scrutinise your lifestyle whilst living his own as he sees fit.

Mycatatetherat Wed 12-Jun-19 22:52:22

If your mortgage is just under £60000 can't you get a job that will enable you to afford to take it over? That's a low mortgage.

Rainbow03 Thu 13-Jun-19 07:06:28

I was just thinking what happens with the family dog? My stbx doesn’t like her so she is with me. Do I get doggy maintenance. Finding a flat that’s takes a dog is hard, would I have to give her away😕

Rainbow03 Thu 13-Jun-19 07:33:03

@Mycatatetherat I work 3 days at the moment and have Ds 5 days and he starts pre school in September. Then I will have 2 more days to work overtime which would hopefully boost my mortgage if I applied then. Maybe we could have an agreement that I will get him removed by then, either with my overtime or borrowing from my mum. Hopefully he can get another mortgage in the meantime with our payments included, they are about £270 a month.

Rainbow03 Thu 13-Jun-19 07:34:09

I just remembered when I went for my mortgage in principle in my name I don’t think I included CM as he refused to pay it but has changed his mind now!

Mintypea5 Thu 13-Jun-19 07:36:58

@Rainbow03 some lenders won't count child maintenance towards income as it can change so just double check.

Rainbow03 Thu 13-Jun-19 08:00:14

I’m pretty sure mine does but I’ll check!

LemonTT Thu 13-Jun-19 11:04:23

One of the issues both of you need to take on board is that the more you debate and faff around on entirely resolvable things the more this is going to cost you both. That £25k could easily go on legal fees meaning you will need an even bigger mortgage.

It is pointless negotiating CMS. It is not within your gift to do this. It is an entitlement for your child and any agreement can be overturned. Just work it out now based on CMS so you know your income and he knows his liability.

Really there isn’t that much to negotiate here. A half decent solicitor should give you an indication of what your % share will be. The same for him.

There will be some back and forward and perhaps you will need a Mesher Order and maybe he will agree as long as it lets him buy.

My advice, be realistic rather than sentimental. The later will cost you both money. Also Ignore his bluster as it is meaningless. Work out how you can afford this or another home and put in place a realistic plan to achieve it. Because a Mesher order is a deferment of a problem not an avoidance. At some point you will need to give him a share of the equity.

Bluntness100 Thu 13-Jun-19 11:13:38

Basically work out three times his salary. As a general rule. This is his maximum mortgage on his own.

So for example he earned 50 k a year. This means max mortgage is 150k. Split between two properties. One mortgage is currently 60 k. As such he can borrow a max of ninety k for the second property.

It's not exact science but as a rule of thumb it will give you an idea of what he can afford to buy.

However there is a huge amount of complexity in owning two properties due to capital gains tax. As the bungalow is not his primary home, then a future sale of it would attract capital gains tax. Which is reduced for every year he lived there or rented it out.

Both of you really need advice on this, as it has long ranging implications, inc for your son, due to thr tax impacts on any future equity,

Rainbow03 Thu 13-Jun-19 11:33:31

I have just been to the solicitor who has told me to snap the idea of putting his equity into a trust for our son out of his hand. I’m going to go with the solicitor who has said it should be pretty easy and inexpensive as long as stbx doesn’t change his mind.

TheBrockmans Thu 13-Jun-19 11:59:02

I would also say that if that money is in a trust fund for ds then at least if ex does go on to have more dc, or even just remarry then at least ds has some money passed to him from stbex rather than to a new family or new wife.

NorthernSpirit Thu 13-Jun-19 12:17:38

This is going to be problematic for him (staying on the mortgage). His earnings to lending ration will be circa 4 x and the current mortgage will be taken into account (so he’ll only be able to lend the difference).

As he already (I’m the eyes of HMRC) owns a property he’ll have to pay 3% additional stamp duty on the new purchase.

When the FMH is sold if he has bought a new property then he’ll have to pay capital gains tax.

Mecher orders are a bad idea all round. It postpones the inevitable for you and makes it difficult for men to get back on the property ladder.

Rainbow03 Thu 13-Jun-19 12:29:50

Yes for the trust to work I have to remove him from the mortgage. The solicitor told me to get the correct legal figure of CM from the website and use that to get the mortgage principal. I think with that figure I will be ok, if not my mum has agreed to pay the shortfall.

With the trust is my sons name there is a clause that I can live there until I die.

Rainbow03 Thu 13-Jun-19 12:31:34

We can offset some of the equity for all the savings and his pension so he has enough for a pretty good deposit. He then has his good salary so will make it up quick.

ceirrno Thu 13-Jun-19 21:47:26


@NorthernSpirit (As he already (I’m the eyes of HMRC) owns a property he’ll have to pay 3% additional stamp duty on the new purchase.)

This is not true. There is an exemption in the case of a divorce and being on the mortgage of your ex.

Rainbow03 Thu 13-Jun-19 22:21:06

I have ran my meeting past my stbx and he is backtracking a little about the Trust and I guess for good reason. He is not sure how it would work in the future if I wanted to move, would the trust move with me. I have told him that the trust has 2 trustees and they would need to approve the move. So I guess who the 2 trustees are are very important. He will probably want to be one. Also wanted to know if the trust was safe from me having another divorce....great I have a track record. I’m pretty sure that it’s divorce proof!grin

TheBrockmans Fri 14-Jun-19 05:53:41

I think in your position I would also want the option if your financial position were to change to be able to have the option to buy out the trust fund. Say if you were working full time and could extend the mortgage. That would free up the money for ds and means you are not beholden to him as a trustee.

SimonJT Fri 14-Jun-19 06:03:43

I’m on my exs mortgage as he cannot get mortgage on his own. I recently bought a flat, as it is classed as a second home I had to pay some very hefty stamp duty and I needed a very large deposit.

Ex paid the stamp duty and contributed towards the deposit. He will have no claim on my flat, now he has done this we have drawn up a contract so I will have no claim on his.

OliviaBenson Fri 14-Jun-19 06:48:50

Op, your ex as a trustee?? No no no. You would basically be handing him control of you for life. What if you wanted to buy with a new partner? He could basically stop you.

The money is an asset of the marriage. He gets to walk off free from you, but you do t get a clean break yourself. I think you need to get better advice on this.

Rainbow03 Fri 14-Jun-19 07:23:17

So if he agreed to have the trust but only if he could be a trustee he would be able to stop me moving house then? I have no intention of moving but i don’t know what the future holds!
Great idea about being able to buy it out which will be a real possibility in the future!

Rainbow03 Fri 14-Jun-19 07:25:33

Would it be right of me to use the money he has agreed to put in a trust to enable me to stay when he could make me sell and let another man live in the house and get the benefits of a smaller mortgage! I would feel uncomfortable doing that.

LemonTT Fri 14-Jun-19 08:18:32

I think you are losing sight of your objective and in doing so you are going to trigger dissonance in your ex. His lawyers, when he gets one, will caution him to withdraw this offer. You are getting overly complicated again and this will cost you money.

You want to stay in the home, you are not trying to get a bigger share of the equity. To stay in the home you will need a mortgage and you must find out what you can afford based on the estimated level of equity you will retain. Have you done this yet?

Do this before you tie yourself up in knots over staying tied to him.

If you can afford the mortgage then buy him out and give him the money. That is a clean break and you are then done with him financially.

If you cannot afford the mortgage you can try to get him to reduce his share to the point that it affordable.

Or, you agree to an arrangement whereby he retains an interest in the home but is not on the mortgage. As one pp points out this can be done without triggering his need to pay higher stamp duty.

The quicker you can give him equity the better because then you are done with him. . So yes if you move, release the money as you don’t need it any more. If you get a better paid job, release it. If you remarry release it.

prawnsword Fri 14-Jun-19 08:19:41

The fact he is trying to control your hypothetical future relationships means this is not a good idea for you. If he has this tendency to try to control situations like this, you don’t want him being a trustee with rights over you.,You would be better off selling & starting over. I’m sorry about your father’s passing...houses have memories but you can make more in a new place. If you are determined to stay can you somehow buy him out? Ask your mum to help. You may not want to, but sounds like you also don’t want to move either. So it may be a matter of having to do something either way you don’t want to do but have to.

You need to accept if you were married you Can’t exactly protect marital assets like money your parents gifted to buy the property. That kind of thing would have had to be contractually agreed at the time. You can’t just decide to divorce & then claim cash gifts as your own! It doesn’t work like that for good reasons...

Accept you are going to take a financial hit & there is going to be some sort of lifestyle/living change that doesn’t feel wonderful. Maybe you will have to move to a flat, or Ask family to help... just accept that this isn’t going to be as amicable as you would like....

Rainbow03 Fri 14-Jun-19 08:38:51

I can get half the mortgage and my mum has agreed to help with the other half. I can’t pay out any equity. My stbx proposed the trust as he wants to open a business and wants to protect the money in the house for our son so he knows whatever happens our son has that. I’m happy to buy out if I re-married, that seems fair to me. The solicitor said that the what we are trying to agree on protects our sons welfare as I would not receive a high enough settlement to afford a two bed flat. He would be going for a Mesher/Martin order if this trust was not on the table.

Rainbow03 Fri 14-Jun-19 08:41:01

I just wouldn’t want him to be able to tell me if I could move house or not in the future as this might be something I don’t have a choice but to do. It might be unrelated to having another man. I guess we need to get some advice on that!

Rockinmomma Fri 14-Jun-19 08:42:42

Hi OP, I think I can help you here. I was in the exact same position with my XH.
Are you still in early stage of separation? It sounds like there is a lot of bitterness and resentment between you. You both need to make decisions for your child, not yourself.
On to the legal stuff! If you can’t agree on the house you have to seek mediation. In family disputes (custody, assets) a case won’t be heard until you attend mediation and receive a certificate stating you are unable to agree.
You might be eligible to legal aid which covers a free session for each of you at mediation and one session together.
At mediation you have to declare your incomes and outgoings, the mediator takes everything into consideration and gives unbiased legal advice. The mediator will write you up an agreement if you come to one which you can turn into a legal agreement.
You need to dig your heels in for your dc.
I had my XH spouting the same, he’ll go on benefits, live in house, I could rent, yada yada yada.
The law says different. You being the main carer of DC, having a lower income means it’s highly likely you can remain in the house until a) dc turns 18 or b) your financial situation changes and you can apply for a mortgage.
I spoke to a broker about our mortgage, was told I would need to re apply for the mortgage but wouldn’t get it as my annual wage wasn’t enough.
Names can be removed from deeds, I doubt your ex will agree to that though.
Hope my experience helps! Be firm, stop thinking about his best interests and think about yours and your dc

LemonTT Fri 14-Jun-19 09:22:39

Try to stop complicating this. You just need a mesher order to stay in the house. What he does with the money when he gets it is up to him. He can then put it in trust for his son.

You are asking a lot here OP and as your solicitor has advised he is offering you a good deal. Instead of taking it you keep trying to get more. This is going to be your downfall.

You want to stay in the house and he is trying to facilitate it. Just take that as a good thing for the weekend at least.

Btw, if he starts a business he will be self employed and that is going to have implications for his CMS.

Sirzy Fri 14-Jun-19 09:29:03

A lot of mortgage companies won’t let you be on two residential mortgages either which could cause another issue for him

Rockinmomma Fri 14-Jun-19 09:37:46

How is he going to get this money for the trust out of the house?
Surely it’s better the money stays in the house, it’s an investment

Rainbow03 Fri 14-Jun-19 12:03:15

This was not my idea, he has offered it and is now changing the parameters. If the trust doesn’t happen then the solicitor has assured me that if we go to court I would end up with either the house or the house would be sold and I would be provided a two bed flat from the proceeds in our area, which is not that much of a different price to what we have. The only reason I’m not going down this route at the moment as this would ruin any potential relationship we would have to co-parent our son, I want what is best for him or me.The only reason a judge would accept a 50/50 split was if it got left to our son and not my stbx, that’s what I was told anyway!

Rainbow03 Fri 14-Jun-19 12:05:36

Sorry that was meant to say I want what is best for our son not for me.

Rockinmomma Fri 14-Jun-19 12:55:05

Yep, sounds about right OP.
I’m still in our house 3 1/2 years on. Relationship with XH is much better now, hopefully yours will improve over time too

Rainbow03 Fri 14-Jun-19 22:59:31

My solicitor told me today that it would be highly likely given the past abusive behaviour, the reason why I petitioned my husband, that he will never agree to anything fair and is using the idea of a trust to lure me in and then not go ahead in order to cause me more pain. That is why he keeps changing his demands. He said my husband fits the bill and that I should prepare to go to court as mediation was rejected.

This sounds bad, court I’m guessing is going to be very expensive. So when my husband threatened to waste all the money if I ever took him to court his threat was correct?

Rockinmomma Sat 15-Jun-19 06:23:24

Ahhh, you didn’t mention the abuse. No, you can’t mediate with an abuser!
Have you checked if you’re eligible for legal aid?
Your solicitor is right, he’ll still try to control and treat you like shit. But it’s possibly all empty threats.

Rainbow03 Sat 15-Jun-19 08:09:03

Cant get legal as I don’t have enough of the proof they accept!

combatbarbie Sat 15-Jun-19 08:34:41

OP how long has the mortgage left to run? It may be worth looking at mortgage calculators to remortgage over a longer term so that you can manage it on your own...... If this looks likely i would seriously consider fighting for the house in divorce.... Forget about sons trust for now....

By the time you get to this stage LO will be in school anyway so income capacity is increased.

And don't mention CM, this is a legal obligation for him. Sort the divorce, get the house and then file for CM.

combatbarbie Sat 15-Jun-19 08:37:47

If it were me, i would negotiate the house in return for the savings and not perusing his pension. That sounds like a clean break order but don't quote me.

Remember this man is an ex for a reason, you need to protect you and your son. Play him at his own game.

Rainbow03 Sat 15-Jun-19 09:02:04

That is what I wanted to do but he will not accept this as an offer. He said that he will not hand over his hard earned money without a fight, he will use all the savings he has on going to court and make me spend money fighting him that I don’t have. He said he doesn’t care if he ended up with nothing or goes to jail as long as he makes me suffer along the way if I go for “his” money.

When I got my mortgage principle in my sole name a month ago it was on the longest length of time but I couldn’t borrow the whole amount just half. My mum has agreed to pay for the other half.

Rainbow03 Sat 15-Jun-19 09:04:00

He has said 4 times now he will put his share in the trust for our son, but now that I have got advice on the trust he is backtracking.

combatbarbie Sat 15-Jun-19 09:36:33

Its scare tactics, make sure all communications are written.... Hopefully he will shoot himself in foot so you can get legal aid.

I would disengage for now. Start the CM application and let the solicitors do their job but make yours very aware of your financial situation, you may be able to claim your costs against ex..... And if he's given the money.... He'll have to use that.

Going to court doesn't need to be expensive.... Give him the offer, if he rejects then let the judge decide, they are not stupid.... Well most aren't.

combatbarbie Sat 15-Jun-19 09:38:58

His share means nothing if he wont agree to a deal..... The judge may well award 70/30 split in your favour but with caveat you stay in house until son is 18.

I wouldn't make him a trustee in any case as he will always have a hold over you. And that's what he wants

Rainbow03 Sat 15-Jun-19 09:55:25

Sorry wait a minute can I report abuse now after I filed for divorce and they take that into account for me getting the help. He has shouted and threatened my so many times over the last 9 months of the settlement. I thought it was only abuse I reported before I filed. The only record I have was me telling the doctor as he asked my why I was suffering from anxiety about 2 years ago. I told he my husband makes me nervous as he has a temper.

Rainbow03 Sat 15-Jun-19 10:00:29

I thought court would cost £15,000 -£25,000 on average. If we both ended up spending that there would be nothing in the settlement and I would need to sell the house to pay the fees. My husband is not making idol threats, he is absolutely serious, he will not agree and take it as far as he can and spend as much as he can. I have had 11 years of being controlled over money, he is money crazy, he would rather die, he is unhinged!

Rainbow03 Sat 15-Jun-19 10:05:17

He has also told me he has got advice and he doesn’t have to agree on anything, he doesn’t need to leave the house and can’t be forced to for many years. So if I want to bring in lawyers he will do nothing just stay in the house quit his job and I’ll have to stay in my mums house with our son because I can’t live with the abuse, and he knows I’ll stay away to protect our son. He is a selfish pig of a man!

Rainbow03 Sat 15-Jun-19 10:06:01

Everything is and always has been on his terms!

Rainbow03 Sat 15-Jun-19 10:08:35

If I take the trust offer he said he will only pay me £100 a month in CM and he wants this written in the consent order. He earned last year £40,000.

Jaffacakebeast Sat 15-Jun-19 10:14:36

If you will be working part time and single will you get taxcredit/UC? Some mortgage providers take these into consideration, along with CM

Rainbow03 Sat 15-Jun-19 10:17:32

Yes my bank took that into account and it wasn’t enough.

LemonTT Sat 15-Jun-19 10:43:10

It is not an option for him not to pay CMS no matter what is written in the consent order. It is not a thing you or he can negotiate on. It is an entitlement for you child and you cannot give it away to stay in this house.

If you want to stay in the house you need to be able to demonstrate you can afford the mortgage. You need to find out how much you can borrow with or without your mothers help. Then base your decision around that and the need to find “a” secure home for your child.

You can apply for a mesher order that could mean his share of the equity is not released for a period of time. Isn’t this what the solicitor advised. If so, go with this and present the offer to him formally and ask for his reply formally.

combatbarbie Sat 15-Jun-19 11:11:55

Have you called womans aid, i would speak to them about the emotional and financial abuse.

The CM is not negotiable and if he quits his job he wont get any benefits.

Keep things formal..... Do not engage with him verbally, his threats are idle. You are in a stronger position as you have DS for a favourable split on marital home with a mesh order.

He is manipulating you so now you need to grey rock and let it ride over you.... Easier said than done but you need to emotionally remove him from your headspace.

katewhinesalot Sat 15-Jun-19 11:25:08

The trust thing is a good idea but only for some of the equity. If he walks away with 25k of savings for his deposit then you get the equivalent left in the house for you. Any extra which would normally be divided equally between you, could then be protected for your son.

Rainbow03 Sat 15-Jun-19 11:28:41

I have already resolved the mortgage, I can borrow £30,000 and my mum has agreed to fund the £25,000 shortfall.

I would be fine with a Mesher order but it would not be under his terms of 50/50 as I have our son 5 days a week and can’t have the same earning power as he has. He won’t agree to any other spilt so that would mean going to court and fighting it out. The reason I accepted his offer of 50/50 with his share in the house going into a trust for our son was because 5 years ago when we bought the house my parents gave me a large amount of money as like an early inheritance. At the time I didn’t realise I was being manipulated. He refused a trust and wore me down so we don’t have one to protect that gift. The figure going into the trust would be an almost identical figure that was gifted to me so in a way it’s like we are giving my inheritance to my son and I’m happy with that!

But all of this revolves around whether his offer was serious. For now I have to give him a bit of time to get advice and in the meantime the solicitor will try to get the divorce paperwork moving forward as he still won’t sign the petition and I’m waiting on my deemed to be served application outcome.

Rainbow03 Sat 15-Jun-19 11:30:27

Yes I would get more equity to compensate for the saving he would be taking, but overall it would be 50/50 of the whole marital assets.

combatbarbie Sat 15-Jun-19 11:56:19

Where are the savings OP, in the interim i would seriously consider freezing the accounts until the courts decide.... Providing they are in joint names of course, which i hope they are!!!!

Banks will do this on joint accts to stop the other clearing the accounts

Rainbow03 Sat 15-Jun-19 11:58:25

There is only a small amount left in the joint account as he opened a new sole account and moved a lot before I noticed. There is a paper trial tho so it can be seen what he did!

combatbarbie Sat 15-Jun-19 11:59:28

Been thinking about this..... If it were me id offer 70/30 on the house with mesh order and 50/50 on any other assets including his pension and not budge. The only thing i would negotiate is not claiming on his pension. I think that is more than fair. Dont let it get into a battle, offer it, if he refuses then just get to court. Easiest way to keep costs down.

combatbarbie Sat 15-Jun-19 12:01:00

With the money he has moved, the judge will/can ask for financial disclosure so if he spends it all...... The judge will not be impressed..... All goes in your favour

Shylo Sat 15-Jun-19 12:16:35

I think the trust idea is a terrible one .... your ex will want to be a trustee which gives him control over you for the rest of your life. I think it also stores up problems further down the line if you were to sell the house and look to downsize because I doubt the trust would agree to follow you

PicsInRed Sat 15-Jun-19 12:25:07

Don't believe what he tells you.
He's on a different team now - the opposing team.

Listen to what your own solicitor tells you (and put their advice through the filter of your own information about your ex).

TBH, you are going to need an aggressive and resilient solicitor AND barrister.

Rainbow03 Sat 15-Jun-19 12:47:59

I don’t think we have ever been on the same side tbh. But the solicitor I’ve chosen scared the crap out of me to be fair it doesn’t take much . He is of the same ethnicity also and from the same country so he says understands my Husbands tactics and it wouldn’t scare him at all!

Rainbow03 Sun 16-Jun-19 18:24:30

Today we had another bad argument and have spoken to colleagues at work all day and have decided to sell the house. Everybody is giving me the same advice, if I stay in the house I will forever have to hear about it, he will always have some control over my life. He is a bully and will throw it in my face. The solicitor told me I will get enough equity to get a 2 bed in our area without a mortgage so I’m happy with that. I don’t want any Meshers or trusts that just delays the inevitable. He now wants a trigger to say I can’t ever have another man move in, and I want another life. He also told me he wants to put half the equity of the house in the trust and take all the savings/pension, he won’t offset the mortgage. He also said he will only give me £100 month CM when he earns £3,500 and is self employed and will make my life hard if I go for more. I’m beginning to hate this man and I hoped we would be able to co-parent well but he is a bully and he intimidates me when he can’t get his way!

This morning he rang me after going into work and driving back to tell me he had no clients at work so I’m coming to get our son. He has our son on a Monday/Tuesday as these are his days off (and he often then cancels and says he can’t the day before). He gave me 10 mins notice before I leave for work to get all his stuff ready for 3 days so I ended up rushing. I wasn’t exactly happy at the way he did it but it’s Father’s Day so I said that’s fine but I have an evening dinner planned so I’d pick him up at 5. He absolutely flipped, shouting and swearing down the phone. How dare I stop him seeing his child on Father’s Day (even tho he could have him from 9-5) I’m playing a game, he is going to make me suffer, won’t agree to anything in the divorce....blah blah and loads of swear words. I don’t really understand why he flipped like this. If it was so important to spend the day with Ds why didn’t he just book the day off and give me notice. Why is it that because he didn’t have clients he thought I know I’ll spent the day with Ds as I’ve nothing better on offer!
Am I being unreasonable?

So this is why I have changed my mind about hanging onto the house. Although it holds lots of memories for me of my dad that passed last year, if I don’t separate myself emotionally I will probably end up following my dad!

katewhinesalot Sun 16-Jun-19 23:46:47

I think that's the best option. He's angry now and trying to pay you back for rejecting his efforts to keep control of you through the house.
However hard it is try not to react to his anger. That's what he wants. Keep calm and civil.

Rainbow03 Mon 17-Jun-19 07:42:11

It’s hard to not react when he says I’m coming to collect Ds whether you like it or not, he is MY son! I had to leave for work in 5 mins so just agreed. I’m so very upset over how this happened, he couldn’t get his way so out came the bully and he got his own way. I can’t continue to live like this! What do I do?

Happinessbegins Mon 17-Jun-19 08:22:51

You have done the right thing re the house. I wrecked my brains about how to keep the house when I divorced and it would have been so complicated that it was easier to sell up. When you have got an awkward obstructive ex like I had and you obviously have it’s impossible to negotiate reasonably and they will never change.

Happinessbegins Mon 17-Jun-19 08:23:39

Wracked my brains I mean.

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