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Can stbx stay on the mortgage and it not effect his ability to get another mortgage?

(104 Posts)
Rainbow03 Tue 11-Jun-19 22:35:17

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Rainbow03 Tue 11-Jun-19 22:38:15

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Aquamarine1029 Tue 11-Jun-19 22:38:42

Unless he makes enough money to afford both the house and the flat solely on his own, his debt to income ratio will be too high to get approved for the flat.

Manclife1 Tue 11-Jun-19 22:39:04

They’d have to take into consideration the current mortgage so would affect how much he could loan.

Aquamarine1029 Tue 11-Jun-19 22:39:21

Of course he has to declare it. It's on his credit history. There's no hiding it.

Mary1935 Tue 11-Jun-19 22:39:32

No basically - he can check with a mortgage broker who will tell him what he can borrow but they will add in your mortgage and what’s owed. He needs to contact mortgage advisors.

emotionalaffair Tue 11-Jun-19 22:41:01

He'll also need to pay extra stamp duty and possibly have to get a mortgage with a lower loan to value as it will count as a second home.

iboopyournose Wed 12-Jun-19 00:01:32

If you pay the mortgage soley yourself for a period of time you can apply for him to be removed from the mortgage as you can prove you can afford it and pay a fee to the bank and a solicitor to remove him from the title deeds.

Singlenotsingle Wed 12-Jun-19 00:04:07

He'll just have to rent for the time being, won't he?

Rainbow03 Wed 12-Jun-19 08:11:43

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MotherofTerriers Wed 12-Jun-19 08:14:19

Could you take a second job temporarily to improve your own credit rating and take over the mortgage

Rainbow03 Wed 12-Jun-19 08:22:10

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Rainbow03 Wed 12-Jun-19 08:23:47

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TheBrockmans Wed 12-Jun-19 08:28:56

Also consider that he might need to pay additional stamp duty if the flat is seen as a second home and he is not off the deeds within two years.

palahvah Wed 12-Jun-19 08:29:20

In addition to the advice from pp above, I would also contact a mortgage broker and see what they would advise you do to put yourself in the best possible position to get the mortgage by yourself.
Have you checked your credit file - is it up to date, on electoral roll, etc?

Rainbow03 Wed 12-Jun-19 08:36:49

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OliviaBenson Wed 12-Jun-19 08:38:41

Don't agree to anything without legal advice. You need to ensure you get a fair settlement and that isn't dictated by placating your ex.

LemonTT Wed 12-Jun-19 08:41:09

Can you both afford a two bedroom property ? If so that meets your respective needs and that is the solution you both need to work towards.

titchy Wed 12-Jun-19 08:46:41

Ffs don't agree to him putting th equity in trust for your dc- you need it. Lawyer up for the sake of housing your dc.

Lairydea Wed 12-Jun-19 08:53:21

I don't think equity is viewed the same way as savings when splitting assets. Are you married? Either way I think you need legal advice before you go much further - forget about placating him, if you're splitting up his issues are no longer your concern...

Rainbow03 Wed 12-Jun-19 09:21:57

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titchy Wed 12-Jun-19 09:26:57

He's bullshittinf. If he quits his job he won't be able to buy anywhere else will he. Call his bluff.

Rainbow03 Wed 12-Jun-19 09:30:30

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LemonTT Wed 12-Jun-19 09:33:55

You will struggle to protect money you received during an 11 year marriage. It is all in the pot at this stage unless you have an agreement that says otherwise. This is probably an unreasonable red line.

Your settlement will be based on need. And as far as I can see you don’t need to keep the house. This is your issue and this red line is causing the legal problems. His ask to have sufficient deposit for a 2 bed is actually on the reasonable side. So when you ignore his bluster he has a good case. Plus the money in trust isn’t going to be a settlement for you which will be his obligation in the divorce settlement. His obligations to his children are dealt separately and cannot be negotiated away.

Rainbow03 Wed 12-Jun-19 09:38:30

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Rainbow03 Wed 12-Jun-19 09:40:05

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titchy Wed 12-Jun-19 09:42:45

There's no money in trust...

His idea won't work as others have said so you'll have to sell the house. If he quits his job, you'll have to sell the house - and may well keep more of the equity.

Either way you'll be selling the house. Lawyering up means you get a bette deal and maybe some of his pension.

Rainbow03 Wed 12-Jun-19 09:52:47

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ceirrno Wed 12-Jun-19 10:48:38

@emotionalaffair He'll also need to pay extra stamp duty and possibly have to get a mortgage with a lower loan to value as it will count as a second home.

That won't be an issue, there's an exemption for that in scenarios like this

Rainbow03 Wed 12-Jun-19 18:31:57

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TheBrockmans Wed 12-Jun-19 18:43:53

he told me he doesn’t want me meeting a man and letting him live in the house.

But he could get on with his life and get a girlfriend? He could be constantly questioning you and ds about your love life real or imagined. Doesn't sound ideal.

Rainbow03 Wed 12-Jun-19 18:51:39

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Rainbow03 Wed 12-Jun-19 18:54:22

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stucknoue Wed 12-Jun-19 18:59:22

We are going to be in the same situation, I spoke to a mortgage broker who said he can get a mortgage but he is a high earner and we have a low mortgage with tons of equity. If needed though I will borrow from my parents

Rainbow03 Wed 12-Jun-19 19:29:05

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TheBrockmans Wed 12-Jun-19 22:07:19

I don’t think he would like a man in any house I owned at the moment, hopefully this will disappear eventually.

He probably won't but at least if it isn't a condition of you staying in the house he won't have any say over it. If it is a condition then it gives him a licence to scrutinise your lifestyle whilst living his own as he sees fit.

Mycatatetherat Wed 12-Jun-19 22:52:22

If your mortgage is just under £60000 can't you get a job that will enable you to afford to take it over? That's a low mortgage.

Rainbow03 Thu 13-Jun-19 07:06:28

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Rainbow03 Thu 13-Jun-19 07:33:03

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Rainbow03 Thu 13-Jun-19 07:34:09

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Mintypea5 Thu 13-Jun-19 07:36:58

@Rainbow03 some lenders won't count child maintenance towards income as it can change so just double check.

Rainbow03 Thu 13-Jun-19 08:00:14

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LemonTT Thu 13-Jun-19 11:04:23

One of the issues both of you need to take on board is that the more you debate and faff around on entirely resolvable things the more this is going to cost you both. That £25k could easily go on legal fees meaning you will need an even bigger mortgage.

It is pointless negotiating CMS. It is not within your gift to do this. It is an entitlement for your child and any agreement can be overturned. Just work it out now based on CMS so you know your income and he knows his liability.

Really there isn’t that much to negotiate here. A half decent solicitor should give you an indication of what your % share will be. The same for him.

There will be some back and forward and perhaps you will need a Mesher Order and maybe he will agree as long as it lets him buy.

My advice, be realistic rather than sentimental. The later will cost you both money. Also Ignore his bluster as it is meaningless. Work out how you can afford this or another home and put in place a realistic plan to achieve it. Because a Mesher order is a deferment of a problem not an avoidance. At some point you will need to give him a share of the equity.

Bluntness100 Thu 13-Jun-19 11:13:38

Basically work out three times his salary. As a general rule. This is his maximum mortgage on his own.

So for example he earned 50 k a year. This means max mortgage is 150k. Split between two properties. One mortgage is currently 60 k. As such he can borrow a max of ninety k for the second property.

It's not exact science but as a rule of thumb it will give you an idea of what he can afford to buy.

However there is a huge amount of complexity in owning two properties due to capital gains tax. As the bungalow is not his primary home, then a future sale of it would attract capital gains tax. Which is reduced for every year he lived there or rented it out.

Both of you really need advice on this, as it has long ranging implications, inc for your son, due to thr tax impacts on any future equity,

Rainbow03 Thu 13-Jun-19 11:33:31

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TheBrockmans Thu 13-Jun-19 11:59:02

I would also say that if that money is in a trust fund for ds then at least if ex does go on to have more dc, or even just remarry then at least ds has some money passed to him from stbex rather than to a new family or new wife.

NorthernSpirit Thu 13-Jun-19 12:17:38

This is going to be problematic for him (staying on the mortgage). His earnings to lending ration will be circa 4 x and the current mortgage will be taken into account (so he’ll only be able to lend the difference).

As he already (I’m the eyes of HMRC) owns a property he’ll have to pay 3% additional stamp duty on the new purchase.

When the FMH is sold if he has bought a new property then he’ll have to pay capital gains tax.

Mecher orders are a bad idea all round. It postpones the inevitable for you and makes it difficult for men to get back on the property ladder.

Rainbow03 Thu 13-Jun-19 12:29:50

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Rainbow03 Thu 13-Jun-19 12:31:34

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ceirrno Thu 13-Jun-19 21:47:26

Again

@NorthernSpirit (As he already (I’m the eyes of HMRC) owns a property he’ll have to pay 3% additional stamp duty on the new purchase.)

This is not true. There is an exemption in the case of a divorce and being on the mortgage of your ex.

Rainbow03 Thu 13-Jun-19 22:21:06

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TheBrockmans Fri 14-Jun-19 05:53:41

I think in your position I would also want the option if your financial position were to change to be able to have the option to buy out the trust fund. Say if you were working full time and could extend the mortgage. That would free up the money for ds and means you are not beholden to him as a trustee.

SimonJT Fri 14-Jun-19 06:03:43

I’m on my exs mortgage as he cannot get mortgage on his own. I recently bought a flat, as it is classed as a second home I had to pay some very hefty stamp duty and I needed a very large deposit.

Ex paid the stamp duty and contributed towards the deposit. He will have no claim on my flat, now he has done this we have drawn up a contract so I will have no claim on his.

OliviaBenson Fri 14-Jun-19 06:48:50

Op, your ex as a trustee?? No no no. You would basically be handing him control of you for life. What if you wanted to buy with a new partner? He could basically stop you.

The money is an asset of the marriage. He gets to walk off free from you, but you do t get a clean break yourself. I think you need to get better advice on this.

Rainbow03 Fri 14-Jun-19 07:23:17

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Rainbow03 Fri 14-Jun-19 07:25:33

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LemonTT Fri 14-Jun-19 08:18:32

I think you are losing sight of your objective and in doing so you are going to trigger dissonance in your ex. His lawyers, when he gets one, will caution him to withdraw this offer. You are getting overly complicated again and this will cost you money.

You want to stay in the home, you are not trying to get a bigger share of the equity. To stay in the home you will need a mortgage and you must find out what you can afford based on the estimated level of equity you will retain. Have you done this yet?

Do this before you tie yourself up in knots over staying tied to him.

If you can afford the mortgage then buy him out and give him the money. That is a clean break and you are then done with him financially.

If you cannot afford the mortgage you can try to get him to reduce his share to the point that it affordable.

Or, you agree to an arrangement whereby he retains an interest in the home but is not on the mortgage. As one pp points out this can be done without triggering his need to pay higher stamp duty.

The quicker you can give him equity the better because then you are done with him. . So yes if you move, release the money as you don’t need it any more. If you get a better paid job, release it. If you remarry release it.

prawnsword Fri 14-Jun-19 08:19:41

The fact he is trying to control your hypothetical future relationships means this is not a good idea for you. If he has this tendency to try to control situations like this, you don’t want him being a trustee with rights over you.,You would be better off selling & starting over. I’m sorry about your father’s passing...houses have memories but you can make more in a new place. If you are determined to stay can you somehow buy him out? Ask your mum to help. You may not want to, but sounds like you also don’t want to move either. So it may be a matter of having to do something either way you don’t want to do but have to.

You need to accept if you were married you Can’t exactly protect marital assets like money your parents gifted to buy the property. That kind of thing would have had to be contractually agreed at the time. You can’t just decide to divorce & then claim cash gifts as your own! It doesn’t work like that for good reasons...

Accept you are going to take a financial hit & there is going to be some sort of lifestyle/living change that doesn’t feel wonderful. Maybe you will have to move to a flat, or Ask family to help... just accept that this isn’t going to be as amicable as you would like....

Rainbow03 Fri 14-Jun-19 08:38:51

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Rainbow03 Fri 14-Jun-19 08:41:01

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Rockinmomma Fri 14-Jun-19 08:42:42

Hi OP, I think I can help you here. I was in the exact same position with my XH.
Are you still in early stage of separation? It sounds like there is a lot of bitterness and resentment between you. You both need to make decisions for your child, not yourself.
On to the legal stuff! If you can’t agree on the house you have to seek mediation. In family disputes (custody, assets) a case won’t be heard until you attend mediation and receive a certificate stating you are unable to agree.
You might be eligible to legal aid which covers a free session for each of you at mediation and one session together.
At mediation you have to declare your incomes and outgoings, the mediator takes everything into consideration and gives unbiased legal advice. The mediator will write you up an agreement if you come to one which you can turn into a legal agreement.
You need to dig your heels in for your dc.
I had my XH spouting the same, he’ll go on benefits, live in house, I could rent, yada yada yada.
The law says different. You being the main carer of DC, having a lower income means it’s highly likely you can remain in the house until a) dc turns 18 or b) your financial situation changes and you can apply for a mortgage.
I spoke to a broker about our mortgage, was told I would need to re apply for the mortgage but wouldn’t get it as my annual wage wasn’t enough.
Names can be removed from deeds, I doubt your ex will agree to that though.
Hope my experience helps! Be firm, stop thinking about his best interests and think about yours and your dc

LemonTT Fri 14-Jun-19 09:22:39

Try to stop complicating this. You just need a mesher order to stay in the house. What he does with the money when he gets it is up to him. He can then put it in trust for his son.

You are asking a lot here OP and as your solicitor has advised he is offering you a good deal. Instead of taking it you keep trying to get more. This is going to be your downfall.

You want to stay in the house and he is trying to facilitate it. Just take that as a good thing for the weekend at least.

Btw, if he starts a business he will be self employed and that is going to have implications for his CMS.

Sirzy Fri 14-Jun-19 09:29:03

A lot of mortgage companies won’t let you be on two residential mortgages either which could cause another issue for him

Rockinmomma Fri 14-Jun-19 09:37:46

How is he going to get this money for the trust out of the house?
Surely it’s better the money stays in the house, it’s an investment

Rainbow03 Fri 14-Jun-19 12:03:15

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Rainbow03 Fri 14-Jun-19 12:05:36

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Rockinmomma Fri 14-Jun-19 12:55:05

Yep, sounds about right OP.
I’m still in our house 3 1/2 years on. Relationship with XH is much better now, hopefully yours will improve over time too

Rainbow03 Fri 14-Jun-19 22:59:31

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Rockinmomma Sat 15-Jun-19 06:23:24

Ahhh, you didn’t mention the abuse. No, you can’t mediate with an abuser!
Have you checked if you’re eligible for legal aid?
Your solicitor is right, he’ll still try to control and treat you like shit. But it’s possibly all empty threats.

Rainbow03 Sat 15-Jun-19 08:09:03

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combatbarbie Sat 15-Jun-19 08:34:41

OP how long has the mortgage left to run? It may be worth looking at mortgage calculators to remortgage over a longer term so that you can manage it on your own...... If this looks likely i would seriously consider fighting for the house in divorce.... Forget about sons trust for now....

By the time you get to this stage LO will be in school anyway so income capacity is increased.

And don't mention CM, this is a legal obligation for him. Sort the divorce, get the house and then file for CM.

combatbarbie Sat 15-Jun-19 08:37:47

If it were me, i would negotiate the house in return for the savings and not perusing his pension. That sounds like a clean break order but don't quote me.

Remember this man is an ex for a reason, you need to protect you and your son. Play him at his own game.

Rainbow03 Sat 15-Jun-19 09:02:04

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Rainbow03 Sat 15-Jun-19 09:04:00

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combatbarbie Sat 15-Jun-19 09:36:33

Its scare tactics, make sure all communications are written.... Hopefully he will shoot himself in foot so you can get legal aid.

I would disengage for now. Start the CM application and let the solicitors do their job but make yours very aware of your financial situation, you may be able to claim your costs against ex..... And if he's given the money.... He'll have to use that.

Going to court doesn't need to be expensive.... Give him the offer, if he rejects then let the judge decide, they are not stupid.... Well most aren't.

combatbarbie Sat 15-Jun-19 09:38:58

His share means nothing if he wont agree to a deal..... The judge may well award 70/30 split in your favour but with caveat you stay in house until son is 18.

I wouldn't make him a trustee in any case as he will always have a hold over you. And that's what he wants

Rainbow03 Sat 15-Jun-19 09:55:25

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Rainbow03 Sat 15-Jun-19 10:00:29

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Rainbow03 Sat 15-Jun-19 10:05:17

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Rainbow03 Sat 15-Jun-19 10:06:01

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Rainbow03 Sat 15-Jun-19 10:08:35

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Jaffacakebeast Sat 15-Jun-19 10:14:36

If you will be working part time and single will you get taxcredit/UC? Some mortgage providers take these into consideration, along with CM

Rainbow03 Sat 15-Jun-19 10:17:32

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LemonTT Sat 15-Jun-19 10:43:10

It is not an option for him not to pay CMS no matter what is written in the consent order. It is not a thing you or he can negotiate on. It is an entitlement for you child and you cannot give it away to stay in this house.

If you want to stay in the house you need to be able to demonstrate you can afford the mortgage. You need to find out how much you can borrow with or without your mothers help. Then base your decision around that and the need to find “a” secure home for your child.

You can apply for a mesher order that could mean his share of the equity is not released for a period of time. Isn’t this what the solicitor advised. If so, go with this and present the offer to him formally and ask for his reply formally.

combatbarbie Sat 15-Jun-19 11:11:55

Have you called womans aid, i would speak to them about the emotional and financial abuse.

The CM is not negotiable and if he quits his job he wont get any benefits.

Keep things formal..... Do not engage with him verbally, his threats are idle. You are in a stronger position as you have DS for a favourable split on marital home with a mesh order.

He is manipulating you so now you need to grey rock and let it ride over you.... Easier said than done but you need to emotionally remove him from your headspace.

katewhinesalot Sat 15-Jun-19 11:25:08

The trust thing is a good idea but only for some of the equity. If he walks away with 25k of savings for his deposit then you get the equivalent left in the house for you. Any extra which would normally be divided equally between you, could then be protected for your son.

Rainbow03 Sat 15-Jun-19 11:28:41

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Rainbow03 Sat 15-Jun-19 11:30:27

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combatbarbie Sat 15-Jun-19 11:56:19

Where are the savings OP, in the interim i would seriously consider freezing the accounts until the courts decide.... Providing they are in joint names of course, which i hope they are!!!!

Banks will do this on joint accts to stop the other clearing the accounts

Rainbow03 Sat 15-Jun-19 11:58:25

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combatbarbie Sat 15-Jun-19 11:59:28

Been thinking about this..... If it were me id offer 70/30 on the house with mesh order and 50/50 on any other assets including his pension and not budge. The only thing i would negotiate is not claiming on his pension. I think that is more than fair. Dont let it get into a battle, offer it, if he refuses then just get to court. Easiest way to keep costs down.

combatbarbie Sat 15-Jun-19 12:01:00

With the money he has moved, the judge will/can ask for financial disclosure so if he spends it all...... The judge will not be impressed..... All goes in your favour

Shylo Sat 15-Jun-19 12:16:35

I think the trust idea is a terrible one .... your ex will want to be a trustee which gives him control over you for the rest of your life. I think it also stores up problems further down the line if you were to sell the house and look to downsize because I doubt the trust would agree to follow you

PicsInRed Sat 15-Jun-19 12:25:07

Don't believe what he tells you.
He's on a different team now - the opposing team.

Listen to what your own solicitor tells you (and put their advice through the filter of your own information about your ex).

TBH, you are going to need an aggressive and resilient solicitor AND barrister.

Rainbow03 Sat 15-Jun-19 12:47:59

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Rainbow03 Sun 16-Jun-19 18:24:30

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katewhinesalot Sun 16-Jun-19 23:46:47

I think that's the best option. He's angry now and trying to pay you back for rejecting his efforts to keep control of you through the house.
However hard it is try not to react to his anger. That's what he wants. Keep calm and civil.

Rainbow03 Mon 17-Jun-19 07:42:11

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Happinessbegins Mon 17-Jun-19 08:22:51

You have done the right thing re the house. I wrecked my brains about how to keep the house when I divorced and it would have been so complicated that it was easier to sell up. When you have got an awkward obstructive ex like I had and you obviously have it’s impossible to negotiate reasonably and they will never change.

Happinessbegins Mon 17-Jun-19 08:23:39

Wracked my brains I mean.

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