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Handhold - Told H I want a divorce, the fallout and rise again - hopefully(930 Posts)
MNHQ have commented on this thread.
Well I never thought I would have to make a follow up page.
Thank you all lovely people for the handholds, if you've read the previous thread you know what I have been through, and I can't begin to explain how wonderful I found the support on here. So Thank you ... on I go!
Awestruck with how level headed you're being. Hoping you get this nonsense sorted out in court.
Been reading since the beginning of thread one and wanted to add my chorus of support for you.
Another one delurking to wish you strength in dealing with this
Your STBX sounds obsessive and if I'm honest, scary. I hope you get all the support you need in RL, especially legal!
Delurking to offer support... What your XH is doing is beyond awful. And in the long term he won't get away with this - the court will take a very, very dim view of what he's doing right now.
I found your other thread yeaterday and read it all. I hope you get your little girl home soon.
I had 3 full threads with my divorce! It was epic! The amount of loving support I received from so many wonderful MN'ers, some of whom have become lifelong friends, was astonishing. There's a lot of strength to b drawn here OP.
Still here with a hand to hold, particularly in these dark days.
<waves at MrsC> Oh yes, I do remember what a shit time you had of it! Can't believe he's still being Mr WT!!!
Awesmum, all you can do is all you can do. Just follow your solicitor's advice and try to keep as calm as you can. I know it's hard to believe now, but this will soon be just a bad memory and you are going to have countless days, months, and years with DD.
Apropos of him 'focusing' on the object of his affection, too bad you don't have a 'femme fatale' friend who could entice him into a relationship, get him to loose his death grip on DD and then dump his sorry arse. (I enjoy revenge fantasies)
Have been reading your updates, my God he sounds deranged. I cannot bear to imagine the effect he is having on your daughter
Very little sleep again last night. This is horrendous, I bet he's absolutely loving this at the moment, I feel like I am back under his control, I can't plan anything, I can't decide anything, because I don't know what is happening or when I am getting her back. I am due in to work today, if he drops her at nursery my instinct is to run and get her and go home, but then I am no better than him, and I need this job and I need the money, especially to fight him in court. He can pick her up when he chooses if he decides on taking her at all. So he drop her off and then what's to say he won't pick her up at say lunchtime. His proposal was to pick her up from nursery today and have her till Friday anyway, I just don't know what to do?!
I am going to speak to my boss but I am terrified of appearing flaky because of this shit. I am waiting on every email and every phone call, but I am having to do all the chasing because solicitors aren't proactive (apology for generalising there, just my experience).
I am 5 steps back under his control and not knowing when I am seeing my baby next.
Does your boss have an idea of the situation? I'm sure they'd be sympathetic.
I'd go get her. He's had her all weekend and you need to know she's ok xx
Every instinct is saying go get her, but because I am still in my probationary period I am worried about being more trouble than help. I need the money.
But no if he drops her I am going to go get her.
I think you need to talk to your boss, who wouldn't be sympathetic in this situation?
You do need to tell your employers. This is a temporary issue in as much it will go to court fairly soon and you will be getting power of arrest attached to the CO.
Definitely talk to your boss.
Question for anyone - is KOKO Keep On Keeping On?!
Sending strength and fortitude your way Awesmum
I do think that you must get contact formalised as soon as you can. This is ridiculous. If you have residency then under these circumstances, the police would be able to go and remove her from him. I don't think a court order is going to keep him "in line" but continual breaches will mean he may lose all contact eventually. The effect of this on your daughter cannot be overlooked. Speak to your employers and be honest about the situation you're in. The man is deranged and I am concerned that your solicitors are not acting speedily enough. I think I would also be requesting another welfare check by the Police.
Definitely go and get her from nursery if she goes, forget the I'm just as bad as him. Once you've got her back you can make a plan to move forward, ie supervised contact only, nursery not allowing her to be picked up by father. The main thing is that you get her back in a safe environment.
I certainly think requesting another welfare check tomorrow by the police is reasonable she will have been kept off nursery 2/3 days by him and presumably she'll be at his office rather than home being cared for...
Thinking of you OP. He is absolutely awful. Your poor little girl needs stability. I hope this all gets sorted soon
This is awful, he sounds quite deranged. I read all of your last thread and have great sympathy for you.
If it's any consolation, the more of this crazy behaviour you can get clearly on record (e.g. saying he will bring her back at one time and then not doing it and keeping her) the worse he will look in court.
In view of his refusal to return, once you get her back, could you refuse allowing contact until this is settled in court ?
& block him picking up from Nursery.
I would stop contact I'm afraid. Let the court deal with it. The man is deranged and can't be trusted. This is a two year old!
I second everyone who is saying once you get her back, no more contact until there is a full and enforceable residency order in place. He's proved that he can't be trusted.
I’m going to go against the grain a little here and say that OP needs to be whiter than white. There is already a SS presence involved and they will see him for who he is now... the OP needs to be in it for the long game. Play fair now (as in don’t lower yourself to his level), the more likely a judge and SW will back her...
Unfortunately, and for reasons I have no understanding of, SS will often back the absent parent and almost try and alienate the resident parent. Giving the toxic one all the chances and the parent who does as they should do, the hard time. It’s almoat like they need to be seen to give everyone an equal chance, but the one who plays fair can be pushed harder.
If the OP keeps to the rules, in the long run it will benefit her and her dd, it’ll just be hard going for a while whilst he ‘hangs himself’
WhoKnewBeefStew While I agree with the sentiment that the OP must be seen to be behaving properly, they have an interim contact arrangement in place that the ex has broken. I know somebody IRL that this happened to and she tried to do the "right thing" (ie : leave DS with his father under similar circumstances to this). What actually happened is that the court then recognised him as the resident parent and he now has primary custody. I don't wish to scaremonger. He was as nuts as the man in this case. The OP cannot sit on her laurels with this one!
If you collect her from nursery do you think he could turn up at your house and become violent?
Surely if he's removing her from nursery and having her roaming around by herself in an office while he's not there, it's a SS concern.
Could you report him to them and ask them to intervene?
I get that you want him to have access, I get that you think he's not a danger to her, but ultimately it also sounds if if he's parenting in a shitty self-centred way. Who on earth keeps a 2 year old from their mother anyway? Isn't that cause for SS concern?!
He may not be a physical danger, but his abusive behaviour indicates that he will be damaging her in other ways. He already treats her like a toy/trophy. In the longer term I see no benefit in ongoing contact for her, and her needs are what matters here.
Have you looked at the Freedom Programme?
Sorry been at work. So I went in I explained everything to my boss, who was lovely about it, but kept asking 'why is he doing it?' Incredulously.
I had a call from nursery, he didn't take her in so the manager rang him at work on his work line, and he said frostily that they were away for the day. 1. It picks up how crap he is for not informing them. 2. He knows he's a prick - away for the day on a landline
She didn't ask about the rest of the week as she didn't want to give the game away of what she's up to.
Had email from the solicitor this afternoon from him, my solicitor has suggested so I can get her back to agree to him having her on the alternative weekend until Monday morning drop her off a nursery. I said it had to be noted that he is forcing me into agreeing by withholding her.
I am waiting on a response I still have no idea when I am going to see her.
I am pushing to get back into court at his failure to do as directed by the court to be reasonable, I want a residence order in place. He is holding her hostage by not taking her to nursery. No court will agree to seclusion in an office with only 1 parent for company.
When she is home I am going to speak to my GP and health visitors and gather evidence from them as well as her nursery.
No he can't come around the house if I pick her up - if he does he'll be chucked in prison, he's not allowed within 25 m of the house. He isn't dropping her off though.
I would be surprised if he dropped her off tomorrow, it is a clear case of keeping her hostage. I am worried about her now. I will speak to social services again tomorrow, if he's keeping her off he could be hiding other things - bruises etc. I wouldn't have thought it but I am getting very suspicious of him now.
No I don't want to stop him having access to her. But I want her safe and now I question if he would keep her safe if faced with the option of letting her do things she wants/ likes/ needs as opposed to keeping her from me. I think that would be his priority, which means she's not safe with him.
So glad work where understanding, their response just shows how off kilter his actions are.
Op - I can see you are doing everything you can.
So frustrating when other people just don't understand the why of what he is doing. They just don't get how someone can be vindictive to the detriment of their own children just to get at you.
Your loss of power at this time is only temporary. You are doing a great job at recording everything, gathering evidence to put a stop to him having any way of being able to control you at all in future.
It's also a huge massive thing not to react in the way he wants you to. He's pulling out every trick he has to get to you - well done on being one step ahead and a whole lot smarter than he thinks he is.
You are a star.
I'd ask for another welfare check at least. I am very concerned about this going on for any longer
I can never get over how psychotic he is. I will continue to hope and pray for your daughter's safe return to you.
OP, has your solicitor not considered applying for an emergency protection order? There is a criteria, but the fact that access to your child is being withheld from you despite interim arrangements for contact, you may be able to get one. They are often heard the next day. This is a two year old who needs her mummy and her "father" is keeping her at his place of work to prevent the other parent having contact. He is keeping her from nursery. I think you'd have grounds.
I'd also contact the NSPCC who can apply on your behalf and indeed I would say quite clearly that you are concerned for her safety due to coercive control (which is a criminal offence) and your ex-h quite possibly having mental health issues. I am actually stunned at the lack of urgency shown by your solicitor to be honest. Your ex is an absolute prick doing this under the umbrella of the court.
It sounds like his behaviour is escalating and given what he's just done I really don't think he should be granted contact at all! He's nuts! Hopefully this will eventually turn out in your favour. You've been so incredibly reasonable about enabling contact and he's really messed you and your DD around.
Is he allowing you contact with her in the form of phone calls or anything?
Really worried and sad for you both :-(
Sorry for repeated posts, I keep forgetting to type things. Does she have enough clothes, clean underwear, toothbrush? Toys? Everything a two year old would need? This is just such a worrying situation and as others have said, no she's not safe.
Right sat down after some food, I have read thoroughly the comments.
I can't prevent him from picking DD from school unless there is a court order which says he's not allowed to. So if I were to take her prevent him from seeing her I would have to keep her off nursery too. I would like to do that, she loves nursery, she would hate it, that is my priority. If every time I drop her off he picks her up and keeps her he's actually doing himself so much harm in the eyes of the court. My priority is to show him to be the jerk he is, by doing everything right with no lies, no manipulation he is digging himself a hole anyway. I am thinking about when she's an angry teenager she won't blame me for her lack of relationship with her dad, that when she decides at 13 she can't bare him speaking to her in the way he does or the relentless punishments that I will have her back in a right and proper way and we can fight him together.
With his behaviour now, I do question his parental capability and capacity for reason. So no I don't want him around her at all.
Rest assured I won't rest on my laurels, I have plenty of evidence. I am the one still booking dentists appointments, taking her for hair cuts, taking her for her injections, I am the one who has her prescriptions and medications. He hasn't even asked for her creams, I dread to think of her skin when she comes home, it has taken years of trial and error to find the right soaps, creams, washing powders etc.
I am speaking again to my solicitor tomorrow about the next action- she's currently trying to just get her home.
I went into my DD11's school today to have a chat with them, she has SATs coming up, her only father figure in her life has abandoned her, he's now stopping her from seeing her little sister and she doesn't know when she will see her next, plus knowing I have to keep going to court to fight for her. I wanted them aware it may present itself in one way on another. She's her awesome but she may be being awesome at home and need somewhere to vent / express herself without upsetting me (not that it would). She has a great group of friends who's mums she can chat too if she needs also, but I did want an eye on her. The older 2 schools are already aware and keeping an eye.
Sorry...also, you cannot let her go with him again BECAUSE of this behaviour, you will simply go round and round in circles with situations like this forever more. So your solicitor suggesting the contact you stated above "so that you can get her back" is utterly ludicrous. An emergency application is the only way forward.
I completely agree. Which what I am pushing for.
You are amazing. I see how hard you are working to solve this problem for the short and long term.
Following this thread just want to say your amazing. Your totally amazing and he is a utter wanker bastard piece of shit who I would love to spend 5 mins with in a dark room with a baseball bat x
@awesmum Thinking of you and your children...hoping for some good news tomorrow. KOKO
I too think your amazing, and I'm following this thread in hope that your next post will tell us you have her back home. X
My god I can't bare this I miss her so much! I can't sleep for worry as when do I dream. It's relentless.
How can he do this to her! She use be going crazy poor thing. We still co-sleep because he insisted on his own room whilst living here.
I hope you get her back really soon, she probably won't let you out of her sight after this.
I hope you can get a few hours rest.
Awesmum I haven't posted before but have kept up with your threads. I'm so sorry that you're going through this horrific time. Just a few thoughts from me:
- is the nursery completing Log on Concern forms with each no show of your dd? Given the backstory, they should be, and this paper trail needs to start as evidence. I work in a preschool, this is what I would be doing.
- are social services aware at the moment? This isn't my area of expertise but it seems at the very least they need a 'heads up'. The nursery completing their Log of Concerns will strengthen this.
- I personally wouldn't agree to what your solicitor is suggesting. I believe you'll get your dd back and in the meantime I wouldn't concede what your ex wants for short term gain because who knows how this might get twisted. I know that's very easy for me to say when it's not my child who's away from me though.
Sending all possible good wishes your way
Would SS not be interested in the fact that she has a diagnosed with a medicated skin conditions and by his actions she is not getting treatment. Would that not class as neglect?
I’m sure you have already but have you spoken to your social worker and put her in the picture about what’s he’s done. As someone else said up thread, I’d definitely mention her untreated skin condition, him keeping her from nursery, taking her into work etc.
In all my years of working with SS I’ve found that they all have degree’s in ‘arse covering’ they need to ensure, and will do everything in their power to avoid being blamed for any child neglect/suffering etc. So flag ALL concerns to them. Untreated skin condition, keeping off nursery, unsafe working conditions. Write it down, they will then HAVE to do something about it, because, heaven forbid, something did happen to her, and the press found out, they could have acted and didn’t, they will shit themselves. Mention ‘safe guarding, child at risk’ it’s all words they are used to.
It’s why I said earlier that OP has to be whiter than white. Do everything by the book but don’t be afraid to bring out the big guns and use their own words back at them.
As for him, he should be strung up. Nothing he has done has been for your DD, it’s all what he wants. I don’t say this often, but
He’s an utter cunt
Do it today, talk to SS today so they can go and see him while he has her at work! And keeps her off nursery and away from her mum to do it!
I'm so sorry, you must be frantic with worry and missing her. You're such a lovely mum.
If he hasn't offered any contact or a phone call could you request this through your solicitor?
Just sending you strength and endurance.
All I can say now is to follow your solicitor's advice, get support where you can, but seek a second opinion if you feel the solicitors aren't pursuing this as strongly as you'd like.
I would definitely push for a welfare check, not at nursery, no medication with her!!!
Another one here sending you strength and fortitude. Other posters seem to have good advice about asking for welfare checks and involving SS. You must be frantic with worry - we're all here with you
I have been following your threads but never posted. Just saw this update. He is unhinged surely?
I think you are doing the right thing by going by the book. And I really hope you get her back quickly.
I got a phone call from nursery, they rang to say he dropped her off! I literally dropped and ran, got stuck behind a learner on the way (sorry for my awful lack of patience) and over took wildly! She's absolutely fine, tired, grubby, unkempt. She was so happy to see me and had been telling nursery how I was going to pick her up. She threw her arms up and screamed 'We're home!' When we got to our road. She's run around the house, checking that everything is still there and the same. He biggest sister burst into tears seeing her and she's been thoroughly squashed. She won't leave me alone, even when I said I was going to the loo she said 'I am coming too!' We resolved to her playing in her room for a minute with the doors open.
So all absolutely wonderful, however how terrified am I going to be dropping her off at nursery? Whether she'll be there or not when I go to pick her up. But I am not going to not take her. I am going to do the right thing, and internally panic till the courts can shut him down.
Just to clear up I don't have a social worker, they are reluctant to get involved as they think it just an access argument.
For now we're settled at home. She was starving hungry. Her skin is flaring up again. I am picking the other 2 up later from clubs, and keeping her a surprise.
I'm so so glad you have your DD home safe.
I hope you took photo's of the state of her before you cleaned her up.
Can you ask the nursery to write up a report about how she was delivered to nursery this morning, as they are a impartial witness.
I'm actually in tears op, this is the best news. So glad you have her home and you can look after her properly xxxx
Wonderful. It may be she will be reluctant to go to nursery given what happened, so might be wise to prepare for that.
Re SW, it has clearly gone beyond an access issue, she has not been properly looked after, over and above him kidnapping her.
WhoKnewBeefStew 's advice seems worth considering, even if you are just logging it. Your other DC are also being impacted by his behaviour.
This is wonderful news! Truly! NOW STOP CONTACT. You are absolutely within your rights to do that, I have been advised of that by the police and social services. I think you return to SS ASAP and be very firm about intervention. What he has done is nothing short of neglect, emotional abuse and coercive control. Take photos, write it all down. Get an emergency court application which can be done within a day. Please do not allow her to go back to him. Can you arrange for an earlier nursery collection to avoid him getting there first? While the nursery cannot prevent him attempting to collect her without a court order, when I was in this postion, the school said they would stall and ring me if any attempt was made. This is now an urgent situation and your solicitor MUST act speedily and please don't be fobbed off.
Enjoy a lovely, quiet evening with your brood..have nice food and a glass of wine if you like a glass of wine of course! I am so glad you're all back under the same roof and I'm doing a happy dance for you!
Oh and as for that prick, I hope he gets what's coming...what an evil bastard doing that to a two year old child. It's a pity he can't put her needs, both physical and emotional above the needs of his little girl. To men like him (and my ex), the children are just collateral damage in their need to hurt and control you.
Wonderful news. I really hope you took pictures, if not I think the nursery staff would be happy to note what was different about her appearance, hygiene and any visible skin issues.
So glad to hear she's back - but as MrsC says - no more contact! Your solicitor needs a boot up the arse and social services need to be contacted - this isn't a fight about access any more.
You need a residency order in place asap.
So glad she is home safe.
He sounds psychotic.
Enjoy cuddles and cuddles and cuddles this evening.
I'm so glad she's home safe. It might be a good idea to photograph her, to show how grubby and untidy she is--and if her skin is flaring up, photo that too.
I hope your solicitor comes through for you and you don't have to allow him any more contact with her. This is an outrageous situation for you all to be in.
Please take her to the GP so they can document the state of her skin and the fact that she has had no meds. This is so, so important. Independent verification and recording of everything.
This is the best news I've seen all day!!! I agree with documenting- photos and GP visit. Has he contacted you regarding you picking her up from nursery yet? I am continually amazed at what you have gone through, continue to go through, and how strong you and your family have been and continue to be. All the best. I really hope that something can be done about this behaviour to keep her safe and you more confident that she is xx
Also if you take her to the GP, they may also contact SS and add their voice to your concerns so they're more likely to act in helping you protect your daughter from him. Really glad she's back with you OP.
Fantastic news! agree document everything, get nursery to write down details about her appearance, if they noted she was hungry etc. Brilliant news so relieved for you. The first thing I do when i get home from work is to check this thread and hope there is an update
I breathed a sigh of relief reading that! Please take photos of her looking grubby, record her saying she's hungry and take her to the doctors to get a formal report of her skin.
I seriously hope he ends up in jail.
How he expects to have her full time when he can't even care for her is beyond me!
So does he expect to collect her at the nursery later?
Can you also get your oldest Dd to make a statement that she was clearly hungry, unwashed & elated to have been "freed" ?
I don't think he will be expecting to pick her up from nursery today. I think this was his way of returning her and him looking as much like he is being reasonable as possible (no chance).
Thankgod you have your little girl back!
I hope to God the courts sort him out and grant supervised visits in a contact centre only.
So glad you have been able to see her. I would try to get the nursery to document what they have seen.
So glad to read that she's back home with you and the other DCs You're doing an amazing job Mamma x
OP have just read most of your first thread and all of this. You said that he has not committed a crime, but coersive control is now a crime. Surely your solicitor should be aware of that. It was the first thing that occurred to me on reading your OP.
Wishing you all the best. I am in awe of how you have held things together for your little ones. You are an amazing mum, and one day you will have the life you deserve and all of this will be far behind you.
I've spent the last hour reading your previous thread. All I can say is omg. He's truly a psychopath. You have done so well in standing up to him. U really are an inspiration. I'm not sure I would have kept it together like you I think I would have the shovel out.
Keep going I will follow this thread. The court will see him for what he is. Patience is a virtue but keep doing what your doing. X
Oh thank God!!!!!
I'm behind times (7 hours to be exact) but if you didn't think to call your solicitor as soon as you got home, do so first thing tomorrow.
And remember that keeping her home from nursery is NOT obstructing contact or denying access in any way. It's simply keeping her home. Do not contact him in any way. Let him ask you to see her. But of course, consult your solicitor.
Just reiterating everyone's messages, I'm so relieved for you and your little girl. Ensure your solicitor does their job properly. Have a lovely evening
Been following your story but not commented, just wanted to say I'm absolutely thrilled you have her back with you! You're amazing
So glad she's back with you. Another one saying I hope you took photos of her, please ask nursery to write down their impressions of how she was, please find a way of stopping unsupervised contact ASAP.
I've lurked for months OP, admiring your incredible strength. Your update just made me shed a few tears; I'm so glad your baby is home.
I'm so relieved for you. Although I know this does not solve things, it feels so good to think she is back with her mummy (and that you know she is safe with you!)
Delurking to say what an amazing woman and mum you sound!
Thank goodness she is back where she belongs. Please ask nursery to make a record of how she was when she was dropped off and her reaction being reunited with you.
Also keep a note of how her behaviour has been affected.
Awesmum you are AWESOME.
Just spent the last 2 hours reading your entire thread. I felt jittery, nervous, shocked, disgusted, furious. I cant even begin to imagine what it's been like for you. And still you held on to the moral high ground. You're incredible.
You need to stop being reasonable towards him with regards to contact now. I was amazed at your giving him weekends he wanted pretty much whenever he wanted. You have done everything by the book and he couldn't give a flying fu(k about you, your kids or evidently 'his Princess'. I suspect he had had enough of the hard graft of a toddler by today and that's why he dropped her to nursery. And it's also the only way left to him of teaching you a lesson. I think using children as pawns is despicable.
Who doesn't look after their child's skin condition? What parent would look at a sore itchy little child and think 'that'll teach her'. Her being you.
Carrying a child to the toilet while he goes rings all sorts of alarm bells. He is a prick of the highest order.
You mention wanting to be reasonable with contact so that when he pulls his controlling stunts as he has done with your other children and she is 13, you'll be there for her (sorry paraphrasing). Why would you give him 10 years of pouring poison in her ear if you can at all limit it? Once she starts school and forming her own opinions and not want that asshole carrying her around he's going to change his tune towards her very quickly. I don't know what sort of a 'path' he is, but he is one. I hope he has as little contact with her as possible. I wouldn't even discuss maintaining any sort of contact with your older children. He has made it obvious he despises them. Keep them away from him.
I hope tonight was quiet and just the 5 of you.
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