Don't want DM to look after DD (after asking for it)

[Littleton]

I've name changed for this and sorry it's very long.

I'm due back to work part time in 3 months time when DD will be one. When DH and I have discussed previously he has maintained that it would be better for DD to be with my DM and DF as they dote on DD and she is comfortable with them. I know too that this ought to be better and less anxiety-making than nursery at such a young age. So have asked my DM if she and DF would be happy to have DD on my working days and they've said yes and in fact have pushed for this saying it's better than nursery.

Here is the problem: I'm not exactly happy with this and increasingly by the day dreading this arrangement. Not to massively dripfeed but DM is (always has been) a textbook narcissist and whilst I have really tried hard to be a "good daughter" for the last few years and especially since DD was born, I'm at the stage now where I feel like I've had enough of the constant put-downs, comparisons and casual insults.

I know I've been caught in the FOG for years and years and especially since DD, I am still playing the good daughter but I think I have finally had enough. I also have a bad relationship with siblings (another thread maybe)

Examples of DM behaviour:

• being told postpartum that I didn't have it as bad as her (at the same time as being told that she had no complications in all her births) - I had massive PPH, ventouseorceps, forceps, 7 days in HDU.
• being told (almost daily) that she wishes older DSis would have a baby, sometimes adding that she it's unfair that I've had a baby first.
• being told constantly that I don't know how to look after DD, "you're wrong"/"you don't know anything"/"but I did so and so" etc
• being told that when I go back to work DD won't care if I'm there or not.
• getting blanked for days (including my birthday) because I dared to say one thing I wasn't comfortable with DM doing to DD
• taking DD from me when she is crying to let her "have a go" (DD cries even more)

DM is also prone to temper tantrums. Sometimes (both before and since DD) she has shouted at me down the phone or hung up or just refused to talk to me. Other times I am the "best daughter" and only one who cares etc. You get the picture.

Problem now is do I continue with the plan for DM and DF to look after DD and continue taking the put downs and crap but feel semi-comforted that DD is in "familiar" surroundings OR do me and DH just find our own way and bite the bullet and put DD into nursery? DH and I don't necessarily want to put DD in nursery when she is so little but equally don't want to pass on the toxic relationship to DD. Don't get me wrong, I'm well aware how lucky I am to have DM and DF willing to take on DD as it's a big ask but can just envisage the price I'll pay is my self esteem and sanity.

Thank you if you have read all of that.

Tell me Mumsnetters what on earth do I do?

[Aprilshowersarecomingsoon]

Why would you give them the opportunity to mentally abuse your dd like their did /do to you?

[sar302]

You put her into nursery, with trained professionals, rather than into the care of someone you know to be toxic...

[OnceUponAGiraffe]

Soon nursery will be familiar, to you and your family. Don’t let your mother use your daughter to make you feel worse.

[Mayonayse]

Don’t do it. If that means that you give up your job until she is in school then it’s preferable to the alternative. Sadly I am further down the line in exactly the same situation and bitterly bitterly regret allowing her to behave the way she did. To the untrained eye she looked like the pinnacle of support when in reality it was all from a place of “well I have to step in because you can’t cope.” 10 years later and I am only just healing from the damage she did, and would continue to do if I let her.

And here’s a big old warning : she will work VERY hard on your husband and then you can be the selfish cow daughter fighting her own mother AND her husband.

[Aquamarine1029]

You know this is a bad decision. Your mother caring for your daughter will only give her more ammunition to torture you with. You need to separate your life from hers, not entangle it even more.

[everydaymum]

My DM is exactly the same, and got worse i after had DS. I now don't let her have access to DS alone because I can't be sure of what she'll say. She has previously tried to 'guilt' him and make him feel bad for his choices (he's 5), and that was in front of me, so who knows what would be said without me. I've put up with the digs at me, and even those in front of DS, but I draw the line at comments made to him. Maybe I was also in a fog, and it took having DS to see her for what she's always been.
Don't let her have your DD as it will be harder to break away from the arrangement once it starts (not physically of course, but the drama it will cause).

[ineedtostopgooglingsymptoms]

Please don’t do it!

Yea nursery will be new and scary for a bit but she’s only little and she’s adaptable.

Do you really want her or o be brought up in the same environment as you? With the same expectations and never feeling good enough?

[JaesseJexaMaipru]

I don't think even toxic-narcissistic grandmas can do a huge amount of damage in the first 24 months or so. How would it be to treat the arrangements as strictly temporary while DD is a small baby, and plan to move her to nursery later on, once she starts being capable of understanding and processing what grandma is actually saying.

[Coyoacan]

It depends on the nursery. I was really lucky with the nursery I found for my dd and she really loved being around other children.

[blackcat86]

Could you and DH use AL to reduce the times per week she is there? I am also due to return to work in the 3-4 months for 3 days pw. Both sets of GPs have offered free childcare which is needed to make it financially worthwhile for me to return. GPs are more than able to keep DD safe but PIL will make some weird and quite emotional comments if she cries. DM seems flappy if DD cries although my DF is very good with her. My opinion is that the relationships and confidence will build over time and if anything happens that I am unhappy with then DD will be off to alternative childcare pronto. The arrangement will be 1 day pw with either set of GPs and 1 day with either me and or DH using AL. The arrangement is only until DD is a bit older and then the GPs time will slowly reduce whilst she's at nursery.

[Mummyoflittledragon]

No don’t let her get her hands on your dd. My mother lives too far to babysit. She’s a similar character. She occasionally has had dd from when she was little for a couple of hours while I nipped out or slept. I even let her have dd over night when she was 7.

Shortly after this we had a falling out when my brother told her how dd had acted to him - she was excited but it was all age appropriate - and it was blown up as my dd going off the rails and she would smack her if she acted like this. Interestingly my brothers ds is now this age and my aunt has told me he’s a live wire and a handful as children are at that age when they’re excited. I made it clear to my mother she is my daughter and that she would be cut off if she raised her hand to dd.

Dd is 10. Recently my mother did the crazy making act with my dd, which she all too often did with me, which resulted in regular outbursts of rage when I was a teen. I read the “she is my child” riot act.

Had my mother been a main source of childcare rather than being with dd when I’m around, I would struggle much more to stand my ground. Don’t do it even short term. She will use the time she looked after your dd against you every which way possible.

[NerrSnerr]

I would just use a nursery. It's not worth the stress.

[bastardkitty]

I don't think even toxic-narcissistic grandmas can do a huge amount of damage in the first 24 months or so. Really?

There many more immediate reasons why you absolutely should not leave your DD in the 'care' of your toxic M and (?enabling) F, but one extra thing to consider is the advantage it would offer your M when you eventually cut contact and she applies for a contact order citing that she cared for DD full-time when you returned to work.

[mistermagpie]

I am NC with my mum and have been for years. She's very similar to yours. I wouldn't let my mum water my plants, let alone have unfettered access to my children! She has never even met them and with good reason, it's my job to protect them.

My children have been in nursery since they were 11 months and have both thrived. They are loved and cared for well, but it's an environment where I'm paying for a service and therefore can dictate some of the terms of that service, without emotional fall out from anyone. So much better for me and my kids than a toxic family member running the show.

Protect your child. Nursery.

[Hospitaldramafamily]

Be very very careful here. She will want to be number one in your DD's life and will work to push you out. That's not worth the childcare from grandparents. Nothing is worth that. Please explain that to your husband and show him this thread if you need to. You'll be setting the scene for years of emotional difficulties with your DD used as a pawn. That's not best for either of you.

[user1493413286]

Put her in nursery; it’s not fair on your DD to subject her to your mother and it’s not worth the pressure on you. If she looks after her you’ll see her all the time and have no way of putting space between you to protect yourself.

[emzw12]

Put DD into nursery. It's not anxiety inducing for kids, it's good for them to be round other children.
My mum and dad are saints but even though I still chose to put DS in nursery because of the learning/interaction etc and also because I wanted my parents to have their own lives and enjoy being grandparents not having the responsibility of childcare every week.

[Chottie]

The fact you have posted on MN shows that in your heart of hearts you know what you need to do....

Please, just do it for your DD.

Do you really want her to have your childhood?

[Littleton]

Thanks for all your responses. I am in bits about this and had a panic attack last night. Yes I am certain of what PP have said about DM using it to further torture me mentally and eventually using it to push me out with my own DD. It's also very true that I dread the thought that DD has the same childhood as me. I know my job is to protect DD even if it means finally putting up a wall between me and DM.

To PP who have experienced similar but haven't gone full on no contact - what are the practical ways you've handled this? I do want DD to be able to have a relationship with DM and DF and may need to try and keep the peace for that. I'd also like to avoid the full nuclear fallout of having to explain to DM that I am so unhappy about how she is treating me. There's no reasoning with her and would make things worse.

[Littleton]

Sorry what I meant to say is how do explain to DM that DD won't be going to DM and DF (at least not regularly as childcare but maybe just occasionally) without getting even more abuse?

[another20]

Nursery no question. What else are you doing about YOUR boundaries with her?

Are you and your OH calling her out on each and everything she says? Giving her consequences? Going LC?

She needs managing - she is eroding your self worth as a parent already and your DC will suffer from this.

Parenthood is precious and no one gets to make it a negative experience (which will leave lasting damage) - not for 1 minute should this be tolerated. Get out of the FOG. Every minute should be positive and focused on your child - not you tap dancing being out down and managing this ogre. Take back control here if your finite emotional energy - don’t let DM pollute this any further.

[bastardkitty]

You don't explain or you discuss it or engage in a conversation. I would text something like 'We have looked at childcare options for baby and have decided that nursey is the best option. Thanks for being willing to help though.' And don't engage further. If there's abuse, you block.

[Janus]

If you need to just make up something. For example, say that for her development and social skills you’d like her to be at nursery as it’s great for young children to interact with others (very true imo). Nursery will do painting, cooking, play doh, jigsaws, reading, walks out, would your parents do this (if they say yes say you couldn’t inflict the mess on them). What happens if parents are ill or on holiday? All practical aides say nursery is better. Go and have a look at some too so you can waffle on about all the nice things they do there.

[Littleton]

@another20 (and other PP who have said similar) - thanks this is the wake up call I need to hear.

Yes I am battling hard the feeling of being not good enough for DD and so anxious (been crying to DH for 3 days on the trot). I need to wake up from the FOG don't I.

[manitz]

You could say the nursery have advised 3 days are optimum to establish a routine. Or you could gently confront her as she says things. Difficult to bring up historic stuff sometimes whereas a ‘why do you say that?’ At the time it’s said is less open to knock backs.

My dds had 2 days at nursery and one day with my parents. I always felt I paid in other ways for the free care. Use your parents as occasional care and babysitting and they can get a relationship other ways.