Little Ones Dad and his partner....

[KTMP16]

I feel like my relationship with the pair of them needs to change...

I posted a thread on AIBU and some lovely lady inboxed me saying it sounds like underlying issues with them and i should get over to this board instead for better advice so here goes:

I had a nasty breakup with the ex, we couldnt stand each other - we've struggled to ever have any successful communication which i know has sometimes been picked up in the atmosphere by our little one :-( For years he just told me what he wants then if i said no i get screaming, swearing, abuse! He did shiftwork so his access was entirely decided by him & when he said he wanted him. I've always said all i wanted was consistency & regularity for my son (and myself so i know where i stand and not living by when he wants him!!).

So fast forward afew years and Ex gets into a relationship with someone - moves in with her after a matter of weeks - only found out when my son told me! I made the first step to meet her and made a big effort to get along with her. Ex has booked his ideas up since being with her tbh & i know my little one loves her. I have even started communication via this partner because its easier than talking to him & getting into pointless arguements.

Theres a couple of points where we have clashed (im trying to keep this brief but its not working very well)

1. They booked an 8night holiday with my DS without even telling me! DS has never been away from me for more than 1 night before! The fact they didnt even think of asking me first??!! Thats not normal, surely?
2. Ex has a job with regular hours now which i said was amazing DS can finally have regular contact! Except his partner turns around and says to me "we will let u know what days we can do...it wont be EVERY Friday cos obviously we need quality time together" which just left me gobsmacked! So Im still in the position of Ex being in control of my life as everything is dependent on if he has DS or not!
3. Exs partner took my little boy & her own to a christmas party last week and iv since seen that she dressed them in identical outfits and has the photo as her profile pic on fb (i dont look, just happened 2 come across it and its upset me abit)

I just want them to respect me as a mother and listen to my opinions, and to do whats right for our little boy not just what suits them! I feel like they just do as they want and walk all over me. And its annoying me alot that he didnt put in 100% for years and years and now hes with someone and playing happy families! Is there anything i can do to help matters improve?

[WhoKnewBeefStew]

Booking holidays without first consulting you is out of order. What if you’d already booked a holiday or arranged something at this time? Also simply telling you adhoc isn’t fair on your or your ds with regards to contact. I’d suggest you get something drawn up via the courts with regards to regular contact and arranging holidays. It seems you can’t communicate with your ex well enough to sort it out, so get it sorted via the courts then you both know where you stand.

The dressing up is awful but there’s not a fat lot you can do about that I’m afraid, I’d not be happy about my dc being on my ex’s dp Facebook, but again you might have to let that slide.

[Trinity66]

1. No they should not have booked flights without asking your first
2. You need to get court ordered access and stick to it so they can't mess you around like that.
3. I see why you would be upset but there's not much you can do about things like that

[KTMP16]

I've tried so hard to keep it out of court....court really scares me tbh. Its always been something he has threatened me with when he doesnt get his own way. Hes played that many mind games i struggle to see whats normal and reasonable - i feel like id somehow loose out if we went down that route. We really dont communicate at all - which is why i talk to his partner - but maybe shes just playing the game n being nicey nice to me im not sure. She put that access agreeement to me in such a reasonable way with the language used "obviously need quality time" that i actually said yes of course thats fine. Then afterwards was thinking about it and was like well hang on a minute what that boils down to is the one day of the week u can see have ur son ur choosing ur gf instead! They live together!

The dressing them the same it just feels odd to me. I mean, im glad she treats them the same but it just feels abit much

The idea of the hols was broached around Easter...Ex was insistant that it needed to be 7nights and i said i thought DS may struggle as hes never been away more than a night! So i said less nights and also not on his birthday and not during schooltime. Ex just kept saying "it has to be 7 nights, it has to be 7 nights"
Heard nothing more about it for months.... then just got told that they had booked it - ignoring everything i had asked.
I was absolutely gobsmacked!! But there was absolutely nothing i could do! So it happened..... October halfterm took him on his birthday for 8 nights and had him miss a day of school! I was absolutely raging! Asked his gf "do u think its ok to book a holiday with my DS without telling me" and she really seemed like she had no idea why id be annoyed?! Exs stance was "Im his father i legally can take him away for 2wk so think urself lucky" (like its a game!!!) and told me & ds have attachment issues!! These are words thrown out alot....if i ever have an opinion he doesnt agree with he says well im the dad i dont have to listen to you!
URGHHH i just want them to listen to me and work together with me not fight me at every turn.

[Trinity66]

Keeping it out of court is all well and good if you can be reasonable and civil with eachother but clearly here it isn't the case. I wouldn't be allowing his new partner to dictate to me how things are going to be either, in your case less contact seems the way to go forward.

[LemonSqueezy0]

Try to use the relationship with her to your advantage... So when she says 'obviously we need our quality time together' say of cours I feel the same, and I know you want quality time with LO so let's swap every other weekend, Friday and Saturday night.don't just let them think of themselves...

[RivanQueen]

I would be speaking to a lawyer and getting contact sorted through the courts. At the moment he is having it all his own way and using your DS to continue to control you and your life. Court might seem scary but you need to remember that everything your ex has told you has been to scare you so you don't go to court, why do you think that is? Could it be because he knows that having court ordered visitation in place will take his control of you away? If he thought for 1 second that he would get it all his own way through the courts he would be there faster than Usain Bolt sprinting for the gold. He doesn't want you to get what you want, remember that.
The whole booking an 8 night holiday with your DS and not consulting you is bang out of order and the fact that the new GF is going along with it shows that while she might be all nicey nicey to your face this woman does not have your interests in mind. She's just very good at playing the reasonable person so you find yourself agreeing to things you might be arguing about if it came from your ex.
You need to take back control here KTMP16 and stop letting him (and her) rule what happens for your DS and for you.

[KTMP16]

The agreement in September was pick up from school on Fridays and drop off back home Saturday 6pm (except for when they need the quality time which they said would probbaly be one a month which we could agree at the start of the month) and hes not even managed to stick to that!! I reckon hes done about half and made excuses for the other half. For example, last Friday he phoned me at 2:30pm and asked if id do the school pickup because he wouldnt be able to! So my mindset i immediately say yes of course cos i dont mind the extra time with my boy and obviously im not gonna want my boy sat there crying cos no1s turned up to pick him up! But then i said to Ex... what would u do if i wasnt free tho? and he was like genuinely baffled "but i cant do it, so you need to"

So its not like i can appreciate the child free time with my own partner and have some grown up quality time - like a night away or something- cos im forever a mum on 24/7 call to drop everything if needed,. I cant rely on him!

[Trinity66]

But then i said to Ex... what would u do if i wasnt free tho? and he was like genuinely baffled "but i cant do it, so you need to"

It's maddening isn't it?, my ex is the same. If he can't do it it's just tough luck, unless i do it or sort it out my DC would just be stranded. thankfully my DH doesn't have that mentality and actually feels as responsible for our DC as I do

[itbemay]

I think you need to get a more solid regular arrangement in place, it's not good for your DC or you or them tbh with the irregularity. Can't you suggest to them that they have DC every other weekend Fri - Sun and one night in week for tea? that seems to be the norm then you all know what weekends you have for 'quality time'. Please don't let him dictate to you like this, he shouldn't expect that you can pick DC up short notice, if you can't agree then I think for your sanity you'll need a court order.

[bethy15]

So he cannot manage one full day a week?

They are going to be out of their depth with an eight day holiday.

You cannot let them dictate to you. It sounds like he's been gaslighting you for a long time, and even though you are now out of the relationship, you still don't know what's what.

You don't have to go to court, you could just seek legal advice to see where you stand and what should be happening.

[KTMP16]

LemonSqueezy0 thats how the arrangement was presented to me... that i would get the quality time too....cos it would give me 3 outta 4 Fridays off - from my DS - However my partner has a daughter who stays every other weekend all weekend so in reality we have one or the other or both

itbemay He works Sunday to Thurs so he has Fri/Sat off So he CAN do every single fri pick up to Sat teatime. He just is choosing not to!!

bethy15 they already did the holiday it was in Oct.
It was my biggest example of how they just do as they like
(and that they dont seem to think like normal people think!)

Having partner n SD defo lets me see things from all sides. Would love a holiday as our lil blended family of 4 but I wouldnt even suggest it cos even tho she is 8 i really dont think she wouldcope - she thrives on the consistency and when we have her an extra day on holidays it really throws her! We did 3 nights at Haven and she sobbed missing her mum by the last day :/ So to take a 5yr old away jsut saying "he'l be reet" really got to me. Shes a mum herself she should see where im coming from.

BTW RivanQueen he honestly thinks he WILL get his own way in court hes really not wired right. He said he would go for all weekend every weekend even tho its when he works and then our kid wouldnt even see him and would be left with his partner and court would allow this as they live together and are a family unit. The way i see it.... access is to see his dad....if hes not seeing his dad he may aswell be at home?! He actually said hed have no problems getting 50/50 access if he chose to ask for it

[KTMP16]

I was so fuming about the holiday but legally what could i do? As he pointed out to me....legally he can take him for 2weeks.
Technically i had the passport which i could have refused to hand over but then it would 100% have ended up in court and then it would be "mum refused" ignoring the fact id tried to discuss and negotiate!
I had no reason to refuse it - no safety concerns or anything. It just completely took the piss and set the precedent they can do as they like...with MY child! :-( I had to play nicey nice cos that way i made her promise to send me photos and do videocalls - which they upheld that bargain. Id of been a total wreck for the week otherwise!

[Ellisandra]

You have a mix of issues there. He’s certainly not in the running for father of the year, but he didn’t just go and book a holiday without telling you.
He told you repeatedly that he wanted 7 nights. That’s normal for going abroad, especially if a package. At 5, your son is old enough to be away from you for a week, even if you do miss him. Even if his contact with his dad is a piss take to you it sounds like he sees him regularly - enough that he knows and likes the girlfriend. So I don’t think the 7 night request was unreasonable - and from their point of view, I expect they’d say they went ahead and booked because you just wouldn’t budge and have a reasonable discussion about it.

Pick your battles! Get firm about contact. And turn your phone off (pretend to) - if he leaves a voicemail telling you to cover his contact time, ignore it.

[WhoKnewBeefStew]

Court will look at the current arrangements and stick with those if it’s reasonable. As you don’t have any regular arrangements you’ll be asked what you think is reasonable and the same for your ex. The judge will take into consideration these requests and make a decision on that. He’s highly unlikely to agree to your ex having your dc every weekend if he’s working. Plus If your ex only has him one week night at the moment and you can demonstrate you’ve offered more (text message, email etc), the judge isn’t daft and will realise your ex has been taking the piss. You had an agreement in spat which you can prove and he’s not stuck to that either. Seriously op get it to court!

[KTMP16]

Ellisandra I see you point of view - its hard to explain in writing what he is actually like. Im fully capable of reasonable discussion, he unfortunately is not. Despite the fact i would miss him i knew DS would enjoy himself and as i say no safety concerns. I feel he could have perhaps built up the number of nights away from me - i believe this is what court would have expected? He does have access yes, so yes he does see and like ex partner - but i dont see it as good enough - every Friday since Sept and its been about half at best!!

[KTMP16]

Didnt reply fully as i was dashing off for the schoolrun...
I do actually always try and see things from all sides - my view is that i tried 2 have a reasonable convo and he made demands and was unpleasant (as he usually is) I have a partner with a daughter so can easily flip situations iyswim - and see things from the Dad p.ov - It would never cross my mind to book a holiday with SD without her mums knowledge & consent!!! The way i see it...it would be our job to work around the mother no matter what the mother said.... we would have to jump thru her hoops so to speak!
It was a situation i was dreading buti knew i had to accept it and let it happen. That doesnt mean to say im not still furious & still feel they absolutely took the piss. Hence the point of my op....i just wish theyd respect me and listen to my views!

The amount of contact isnt the piss take - the agreed amount is fine...when he sticks to it... - the cancellations, lateness, re-arranging.
It confuses DS! Fact! I thought the courts were all about regular consistent access.

What would the court make of his request for quality time with his gf? I would like him to have every friday night so we all know where we stand. Not to have to wait and see what nights he tells me hed like!

[RivanQueen]

The courts are about regular consistent access and they can put it in place so it's enforceable which it isn't right now. As for quality time with his GF, the judge won't give 2 shits about your ex having this they'll be looking at what's best for the child not what's best for your ex. It's because of this that he wouldn't be granted all weekend every weekend, as you say you ex works during that time of the week so why would he be granted time with his son then? Just because your ex says something doesn't make it true. Get legal advise, get to court and stop listening to your narcissistic asshole ex and believing what he says is true.

[5fivestar]

Don’t be scared of court, they kicked my ex right up his skinny arse. And if you don’t want your child paraded around on FB you can put that in the orders too.

[Changedname3456]

”The way i see it...it would be our job to work around the mother no matter what the mother said.... we would have to jump thru her hoops so to speak”

And you’d be wrong to see it that way, at least IMO. Your DP has an equal say in their daughter’s upbringing. He has PR (I assume?) and their daughter has a right to reasonable contact with him. His ex shouldn’t be putting up hoops and he shouldn’t be jumping through them. Work towards reasonable compromise, yes, but that has to cut both ways.

Same in your situation. You sound, if I’m being honest, like you see your DC as “yours” alone and that your ex should be toeing your line. I agree he sounds flakey, I can even see your concerns about the number of nights, but you sound altogether a bit too controlling. A court, unless concerned about child safety, would not stop either parent from taking DC away for a week long holiday.

[Cawfee]

Honestly, they can’t just dictate everything. You are letting them get their own way out of fear. None of what they are doing is ok or legal. You are primary carer. Get yourself to a solicitor ASAP and get somebody professional to tell you what your rights are. That way you know what’s what. Get yourself informed as to the law. You can’t keep letting them mess you around like this.

[knowingkaleidoscope]

Who told him he can take your son away for two weeks without your permission? That information is wrong, without a court order. You need to take this to court to get things set in stone. I hope he is paying your maintenance.

[5fivestar]

knowingkaleidoscope - he can take the child for 30 days without anyone’s permission

[KTMP16]

Knowingkaleidoscope I didnt take it at face vale that he told me..i did look it up & Im sure saw something corroborating it as factual!
As i understood it - i could only refuse on safety grounds and it would be upto him to take me to court to get an emergency order granted to allow it and id have to come up with damn good reasons to stop it & court would take a very negative view on me not allowing my child the oppurtunity of a holiday (which strictly speaking wasnt true as i was happy with it but length/dates should have been discssed between both parents - but in courts eyes that wud have been irelevant) Thats what i understood from the reading up on it that i did.


changedname maybe jumping thru hoops was the wrong way 2 put it. he has pr and regular contact but shes still with her mother the majority of the time so whilst we'd be annoyed if she threw a spanner in the works we wudnt be quoting legal rights & booking it anyway....we'd be trying to make her happy about the situation. It would depend on what her arguements where. I think asking them not to book it during schooltime and not take him on his birthday were both fair points! Id like to think we show her more respect - because i know what its like to have someone working against me at all times

Its interesting how some view me as controlling and some view the ex as gaslighting me.

[knowingkaleidoscope]

5fivestar your wrong. If a child is taken abroad without both parents permission it is child abduction.

www.gov.uk/permission-take-child-abroad