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DH touching me whilst asleep

(421 Posts)

MNHQ have commented on this thread.

qwertyl Mon 03-Dec-18 22:45:45

Am downstairs in utter shock.... after an early night and offer of back rub from'd'h woke up to find him touching me.... I stopped him before he went further but he'd already put his fingers inside me I'm sure to check if I was asleep.... oh god I feel sick. I hate him right now envy

qwertyl Tue 04-Dec-18 17:27:38

Have read all the posts, it's been on my mind all day and I know I have to discuss this evening even though I want it to go away. I can't respond to everyone's points but I can say:

We have had sleepy sex, this was different. I am sure he didn't want me to wake up. It makes me feel sick and sad to type that as it makes me believe he sees sex as a purely physical act for him that he wants/will get regardless. If I ever felt horny and he was asleep/away etc I'd find a way to satisfy that need without violating him - as I said, he has a high sex drive, he probably wouldn't ever say no or feel violated.

How can he see that with 4 DD if this happened to them he would be furious I'm sure...I am sure he would never touch them at all (have no reason to believe otherwise) but the deviancy of last night is now making me question everything (please don't make this worse launching into child sex abuse etc. I AM NOT suggesting that but 15+ years with a man I thought I knew has made me question that...

As to drugging. No, again, would not believe so but is his form to give me one more glass of wine etc yes, and I go along with it so I probably am sleepy enough to let it happen. I get more tired than he and I am often up with the dcs when he is not. So drink has probably played a part -

I just feel desperately sad that for whatever this reason this has happened and DH is not the DH I'd hoped for me and my dcs....

I'm sorry to have started any fighting obstacles posters who have all tried to help. I'd desperately love a day or two on my own trying to work things through but job and dcs won't allow that - no way he'll go somewhere else. We have 2 step dcs who visit through the week and I really don't want to cause a problem if everyone's life/

Oh and lastly - I did tell him to get the fuck off, jumped up and went downstairs followed by sleeping in DDs room once is felt him out his fingers in me which thankfully was enough to wake me. He was coming towards me (my back) and I have every intention of asking if he intended to put his penis in me or to get his kicks with his fingers there because I am certain it wasn't with the intention of waking me up to get involved.... we have sex two to three times a week, he's hardly starved...

Shepherdspieisminging Tue 04-Dec-18 17:28:09

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Sassandfaff1 Tue 04-Dec-18 17:28:57

Christ this is a shit show.

This isn't the equivalent of being woken up by oral.

This is the equivalent of me poking my DH to check he's asleep and then sticking two fingers in his ass while I masturbate myself off.

He's using her as a aide to his orgasms.

Some women on this thread are thick as mince.

OP. It is sexual assault. He knows it too. He doesn't care. What the men apologists don't realise is this sort of behaviour is only displayed by bastards who go on to do more and more bastard things.

Naive, loving women, who minimalise and think men are stupid and just need teaching, usually come back in a few years and admit it got a lot worse.

Don't waste those years. Cut your lossesnow and find a man who doesn't believe he's entitled to use you like a blow up doll.

Shepherdspieisminging Tue 04-Dec-18 17:29:30

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Shepherdspieisminging Tue 04-Dec-18 17:30:36

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

NewFreshStarts Tue 04-Dec-18 17:30:55

Me and my partner regularly discuss whether we're comfortable with it. If one of us says no we don't do it until they say they are again.
You don't need to leave or uproot your children - he does. Your children will get over it, you cannot continue to be assaulted because you're worried about upsetting them. Children are so resilient and adapt well. They're more likely to be affected by your low emotions whilst this carries on.

HebeMumsnet (MNHQ) Tue 04-Dec-18 17:31:03

Afternoon, everyone. OP - sorry to briefly hijack your thread. We hope you're ok.

We just thought since this thread had brought up the issue, it might be a good time to post a link to a page we created about rape myths, as part of our We Believe You campaign.

If anyone is interested in having a read there's a link above.

qwertyl Tue 04-Dec-18 17:32:05

Thank you also to all those in support - I know we're all different and I really do understand that - for those that say they enjoy it - great and all good, my DH and I have had some of the best sex I've ever had. When I've been awake and up for it..... that's the bit that makes me truly sad. If he'd do this to get kicks, what else would he do.... rant over.... time to go home and see him I suppose but dc will keep us busy until bedtime

picklemebaubles Tue 04-Dec-18 17:32:20

Just for a bit more clarification...hmm I don't think there is an acceptable 'other point of view' on OP's experience. Women who are suggesting there is, need to know it is vile and unacceptable to victim blame and minimise sexual assault.

Quick summary for the hard of thinking...

OP is upset about what happened.
He grabbed her belly knowing she doesn't like it, while she was asleep.
He stopped when she woke up.
He waited until she was asleep, did it again, and pushed his fingers into her.
He knew she'd have said no if he initiated sex.
She thinks he's done it before, as she's woken up wet.

Does any of that sound like consensual sex? Sleepy wake up sex? No? That's right, because it isn't, it's assault.
No murmurs of endearment, actions to turn her on, nothing. NOT CONSENSUAL.

Ok?

sparklesaremyfavourite Tue 04-Dec-18 17:33:03

My genuine sympathy and support go out to you. I'm sorry you have had to deal with this post on top of everything. But yes, you deserve respect and I am glad you are so firm on that understanding.

I wish all good things for you and your DC.

flowers

sparklesaremyfavourite Tue 04-Dec-18 17:36:00

@HebeMumsnet thank you.

Adora10 Tue 04-Dec-18 17:44:57

Wishing you strength OP, you know what happened, it was very clear actually in understanding you; I am baffled others couldn't understand what a horrible thing you have gone through

I can feel your pain and I wish you well; I can't even imagine how you broach this with him but obviously you will need to discuss it to ensure it never happens again, it's a horrible situation to find yourself in; keep strong, you sound a very capable and intelligent woman.

Sassandfaff1 Tue 04-Dec-18 17:48:29

shepherdspie.

If your perception is that this is not sexual assault, then yes you are.

Sexual assault has already been defined in this thread. Your 'perception' or your own relationship boundaries are irrelevant.

Sexual assault has a legal definition, which doesn't include;

Well my last partner didnt mind
We're married
It's normal
I'd like it

Do you understand what a definition is?
Do you realise that personal anecdotes mean fuck all in a legal sense?

I stand by my thick as mince statement.

Sassandfaff1 Tue 04-Dec-18 17:54:53

The argument being used on here right now, to justify a man violating his wife.

I'd be ashamed if I was you.

Sassandfaff1 Tue 04-Dec-18 17:56:15

angry

NottonightJosepheen Tue 04-Dec-18 17:58:14

The pile on of abuse towards Adora10 is very unedifying to read.

I hope qwertyl that you feel safe and confident to discuss this boundary violation with your husband. Bodily autonomy extends to feeling safe from any unwanted touch and being confident that your boundaries will be respected.

ReggieKrayDoYouKnowMyName Tue 04-Dec-18 17:58:21

Yikes. This is horrible OP. Definitely would be a problem for me. Sorry this happened to you.

JosCally44 Tue 04-Dec-18 18:00:37

I think that everybody has been sensitive to the Qwertyl's situation despite the differences in opinion. Even those who see it differently have been respectful to how she feels.

Adora10, your approach is heavy handed and aggressive. I think you're trying to help the OP which is what this should be about but you seem to want to point score against other posters which adds an unpleasant tone to the thread. It is not okay to call people thick if they disagree with you. Have you thought that maybe the other posters don't give a shit what you say either? It's not a competition. Shepherspie has made her point eloquently and politely and has said nothing wrong.

Interesting thread and I hope you are okay in the long run Qwertyl. As a previous poster said, I think you need to talk to him and get to the bottom of what he thought he was playing at. If he has kinks that he wants to explore, he needs to talk to you about them before just going for it and leaving you scared and confused. That's not consensual and it's not okay.

qwertyl Tue 04-Dec-18 18:00:41

Yes please don't turn on each other - I think everyone has tried to help by offering opinion. I'm tired and probably irrational so I sought advice. I know my own feelings but being able to discuss has hugely helped so thank you and thank you Mumsnet thanksthanks

Sassandfaff1 Tue 04-Dec-18 18:04:11

Adora There was nothing wrong with your approach.
Please ignore all who say otherwise.

See.....that's perception.

I perceive it as thus...other's may not.

Sexual assault has a 'definition'. It is not open to individual interpretation.

Hth.

Shepherdspieisminging Tue 04-Dec-18 18:13:34

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

JosCally44 Tue 04-Dec-18 18:13:42

Surely it's only assault if the other person feels they have been assaulted?

Other posters have said that they have experienced this act and enjoyed it. I would argue that assault is only that if it is intended to violate and interpreted as a violation by the individual.

Some women like having their hair pulled during sex. To others, that is assault. Therefore hair pulling cannot be generally defined as assault. It is subjective. It comes down to both parties and their experience of it.

If the OP feels assaulted, then that is her truth.

Sass you can't apply your truths to everyone else as may others perceptive it differently. A perpetrator is only 'thus' if it was his intention to violate. A victim is someone who feels violated.

Hth

Quartz2208 Tue 04-Dec-18 18:19:42

Oh OP I hope you are ok and figure out the best way to go with this as it sounds an awful situation

I hope those who offered their perceptions based on a misguided version of the truth now realise that this was assault and the OP has to live with that

The other important thing with boundaries though and it needs saying is that a sign of an abusive relationship is the erosion of boundaries (I have to say that this is not the case) but someone saying it is within their boundaries does not necessarily mean it isnt still assault

IToldYouIWasFreaky Tue 04-Dec-18 18:20:25

Some women like having their hair pulled during sex. To others, that is assault. Therefore hair pulling cannot be generally defined as assault. It is subjective. It comes down to both parties and their experience of it.

It's not in the least bit subjective. If you consent to hair pulling, then it's not assault. If you do not consent to hair pulling, it's assault.

Likewise, if you consent to being penetrated, not assualt. If you don't (or can't) consent, it's assault.

It's not about perception or intention it's about CONSENT. OP was not able to give it as she sleeping.

JosCally44 Tue 04-Dec-18 18:27:06

I agree with you on the consent bit because it has made the OP feel bad and therefore it can be perceived as assault but, if someone is kissing you and they gently bite your lip (without consent)...is that assault? Should they have asked for permission first? Sorry if I'm being pedantic but I think it is subjective. There are grey areas.

Sassandfaff1 Tue 04-Dec-18 18:31:29

Yes your honour. I may have punched them in the face, but I don't perceive it as physical assault. You might do....but I don't.

For the love of sanity......

I am so glad I home school. Where the frigg are these people getting an education.

IToldYouIWasFreaky Tue 04-Dec-18 18:32:57

The OP was asleep. The OP was unable to give consent to any act. The OP is clear that she did not consent.
This is not a grey area.

JosCally44 Tue 04-Dec-18 18:38:59

But punching someone in the face is blatantly intended to cause pain whereas the 'act' we're talking about is surely intended to be pleasurable. Obviously not pleasurable to OP and therefore (one would hope) that if/when the husband is made aware, he will be horrified and never do it again. That is, if he's not a weirdo.

He may have (wrongly) assumed implied consent due to the nature of their relationship.

Prawnofthepatriarchy Tue 04-Dec-18 18:44:16

I'll be interested to hear how your DH justifies himself. I'm not surprised you're upset. I would be too.

Sassandfaff1 Tue 04-Dec-18 18:45:37

You are moving the goal posts....and not very cleverly at that.

You stated 'it's perception'.

You deem being hit in the face as 'not pleasurable'.

Would that be YOUR perception?

Perhaps someone into S and M might like it?

What you really mean in a very narcissistic way to be honest....is YOU want to be able to define what is pleasurable.

You do know the world doesn't revolve around what YOU find acceptable?

And the law doesn't revolve around what YOU find acceptable.

Who are YOU?

sparklepops123 Tue 04-Dec-18 18:59:56

Stay strong op 💐

JosCally44 Tue 04-Dec-18 19:01:57

It doesn't revolve around what you think either Sass. You are being as aggressive as your mate Adora.

I think if you asked the majority of people in RL....what would you perceive as pleasurable?

a)being punched in the face
b)the 'act' described in the original post

you would get an overwhelming response of a.

However, the OP did not see it that way. She was upset and rightly so because she felt violated. She's got every right to feel that way and it's a horrible situation for her. Again, her perception and her truth.

I wasn't moving any goalposts.

Can't we all be nice though to be fair? Aren't we all on the same page in that we are trying to give support to the OP? Even by suggesting that her husband may not have meant her any harm, and that he was just being an idiot by not realising it would upset her, surely it is still showing her support. People are just coming at it from different angles that's all.

No one has suggested that sexual violence is acceptable. I certainly haven't.

JosCally44 Tue 04-Dec-18 19:03:25

Ah major error.....I meant b obviously!!!

picklemebaubles Tue 04-Dec-18 19:03:44

Oh Jos. There is no way waiting until your wife is asleep to shove your fingers into her can be considered nice.

picklemebaubles Tue 04-Dec-18 19:05:53

No one has suggested that sexual violence is acceptable. I certainly haven't.
Jos, you said "he may not have meant her any harm". How does grabbing a place your wife hates to be touched, and sticking your fingers in her, both while you think she's asleep, how can that be ok?

Sassandfaff1 Tue 04-Dec-18 19:07:52

You would perceive unwanted and un consented fingers in your vagina as 'pleasurable'?

shock

Well. That's obviously your 'kink'

I'm pretty sure most women would not. Please don't project your kink on the rest of us. Thanks.

Figgygal Tue 04-Dec-18 19:12:58

Sorry op this happened
I wouldn't have accepted that happening to me either I honestly wouldn't know what to say or do at this point other than asking him to get out of the house and give me space

Sassandfaff1 Tue 04-Dec-18 19:13:36

The cognitive dissonance on this thread is almost astounding......except.......it really isn't.

I feel like shaking women. What some of them view as 'normal' or not meant as 'harmful.' No wonder some men are such pigs. It's open season.

They have all the world's wealth, run the top businesses, are the majority in governments and military and the judicial system and some how, they dont understand that putting 2 fingers inside a woman's vagina whilst they are asleep is a violation. The poor men. How do they stumble through life........

Adora10 Tue 04-Dec-18 19:13:40

I’m mates with nobody on here Jos and I think I’ll get over anyone’s distaste at my posts 👍👌

Adora10 Tue 04-Dec-18 19:16:43

Sass how do u think people like Donald Trump exist? It’s depressing I agree 😟

LizzieBennettDarcy Tue 04-Dec-18 19:24:03

OP you really need to talk this through with your DH and I think my guide would be how he reacts to what you say. If he's genuinely shocked and upset at how you're feeling, I'd have some hope this wouldn't happen again. If he minimises it, and makes you out to be the one with a problem, I don't think I'd ever want to share a bed with him again. I wish you well flowers

Quartz2208 Tue 04-Dec-18 19:28:07

Jos I think you are confusing what implied consent means - you are seeing it as preexisting consent - you cannot pre consent (Legally) to a sexual act. There is no such thing as advanced consent (in legal terms)

Implied consent is when you give consent via actions rather than words or by inaction - but you would have to be awake to give it. So implied consent simply does not exist here. EVER in any case.

The other thing is as an act out of nowhere sticking fingers up my vagina is not going to be pleasurable. I would be surprised if anyone found it so (out of nowhere)

And seriously if people have read the entire thread how can we still be thinking that a man who gives his wife wine to make her sleep longer and then checks she is asleep (knowing she would have said no) is somehow an accidential idiot,

Interesting it is not legally subjective - the law would never allow it to be so. The definitions of assault are clear. Neither is the concept of consent subjective - you either do or you do not. Anything done without your consent is assault. Advanced consent does not legally exist either. Law cannot be so subjective so regardless of the intended consequences of an act the key is and always will be consent.

And consent is required each and every time (and implied consent is through actions)

busybarbara Tue 04-Dec-18 19:47:31

No one should be putting their hands on your body without you offering or discussing it first in any circumstance! It doesn't matter if it's your DH or a total stranger, the law is the law.

bethy15 Tue 04-Dec-18 20:01:20

*I think if you asked the majority of people in RL....what would you perceive as pleasurable?

a)being punched in the face
b)the 'act' described in the original post

you would get an overwhelming response of a.*

I'm sorry, but no.

If you asked if people found full sexual intercourse pleasurable you would get a yes, but being raped isn't.

And to the other poster, no, there is no implied consent as there is a relationship already established. Just no. We're going back to the days of there's no rape within a marriage.

Shepherdspieisminging Tue 04-Dec-18 20:03:06

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Sassandfaff1 Tue 04-Dec-18 20:06:02

My kids are going to run rings around idiots.

Sassandfaff1 Tue 04-Dec-18 20:08:50

The subservient attitude from some women is worrying. And I think they should read some educational books instead of watching towie or geordie shore or love island.

Shepherdspieisminging Tue 04-Dec-18 20:11:00

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Sassandfaff1 Tue 04-Dec-18 20:13:19

Dear daughters.

Do not let your husbands insert fingers into your vagina while you are sleeping, witjout your consent. Do not let other weak women tell you it is normal, and that men aren't sure if it is allowed and you need to teach them that it isn't because men are dumb and unless you teach them otherwise....your body is there's to do as they please.

Yours sincerely

Mum.

seahorse85 Tue 04-Dec-18 20:15:40

My kids are going to run rings around idiots.

Face palm 🤦‍♀️

Sassandfaff1 Tue 04-Dec-18 20:16:36

Wow. You sure think men are incapable.

Your low opinion of men in the real world is troubling....I hope you don't have a son. I wouldn't want him realising his mum thinks males are all potential rapists until a women educates him.

qwertyl Tue 04-Dec-18 20:16:49

Thank you all lovely ladies and sorry this has come to insults.... I will broach it, he knows we have to, I don't want to. I'm a lawyer, I know that legally I could argue my ground, I'm more upset that I'm a personal and emotional level this felt so wrong. That's my gut and I don't take it lightly in 15 -17 years of a sexual relationship.... he wasn't trying to rouse me to enjoy it too, that's my main concern. And I should feel safe in my house in my bed with my DH. He's ruined that....and he does know what he did was wrong - I think he's only sorry I finally found out

sparklesaremyfavourite Tue 04-Dec-18 20:19:54

Poor OP.

Please... PLEASE can the debate stop? It's pretty simple. What was done to her is a crime - it is literally not down to perception! Go and research the law and consent, instead of making excuses for this man.

She is a victim of something horrible and grieving the idea of who her husband is, and needs support and nothing else...

She has to come back and read all of this when really all that matters is her. None of us.

Please, lets just all agree that we all care for her welfare and wish her well going forward.

flowers for you qwertyl

qwertyl Tue 04-Dec-18 20:20:36

Well yesssass do I need to tell my 5 year old to make sure she tells her DH not to penetrate her while she sleeps in case he doesn't know that? I have three brothers, I hope to god they haven't ever done this to their wives.... will post in morning - I dread to think how he'll try to convince me this is ok....or my fault for having such a low sex drive im sure..! Wonder why?

sparklesaremyfavourite Tue 04-Dec-18 20:21:22

Just saw your last post. I will be with you in spirit, as I'm sure many of us will. flowers

Sassandfaff1 Tue 04-Dec-18 20:21:40

qwertyl

You deserve so much more. I hope you realise that.

I'm so sorry that you gave gone through that because your husband has no respect for you.

I wish you all the best and I hope you see your true worth while dealing with this horrible situation.

sparklesaremyfavourite Tue 04-Dec-18 20:23:04

qwertyl you are strong and inspirational. You know what's right and I'm sure you won't allow his bullshit. Gentle hugs.

picklemebaubles Tue 04-Dec-18 20:23:19

Quertyl you are so strong. Awesome woman.

Zofloramummy Tue 04-Dec-18 20:28:28

I posted last night, I’m sorry but I do think the discussion about consent should have been conducted away from a thread to support qwertyl.
One mans beer is another mans poison and all that. What some people have as accepted behaviour in their relationships is not what happened last night to qwertyl.

Wishing strength for your conversation last night. Stay strong and don’t let him try to gas light you.

Zofloramummy Tue 04-Dec-18 20:33:09

Tonight not last night

Adora10 Tue 04-Dec-18 20:34:58

We’re all with you OP you can see the majority here totally get it, the rest, well pay no attention 👍

Don’t you ever doubt your own judgement or put a man’s sexual needs before your right to consent, there literally is no other explanation other than what you yourself believe happened.

I’m actually appalled at what you’ve endured 😟

Sassandfaff1 Tue 04-Dec-18 20:35:10

Quite qwertyl

I have a dad, a brother and a husband. I'm willing to bet my lovely house that they all understand that poking a woman to see if she's sleeping and then inserting fi gers while they beat one off is deplorable at best and sexual assault at worst. But then ....I don't think men are bumbling clueless idiots.

Shame on me for not getting that men are potential rapists until boundaries are explained to them.

Who knew?

bethy15 Tue 04-Dec-18 20:45:07

I'm so sorry you're going through this Qwertyl. I can't imagine what you're feeling right now.

Have you thought about if he is doing this as you suspected previously, and if perhaps there's any reason why you sleep so deeply and if anything could be happening there?

Please take good care of yourself and your children, it's so worrying to think of him there with you and you feeling like your not safe at home. We're all with you in spirit.
What a vile man to make you feel like this.

Passmeagin Tue 04-Dec-18 21:02:54

I left my dh for this exact reason. Went to bed he tried it on. I said no I'm tired and woke up with his fingers inside me.
This was however after I'd kicked him out twice (I know) for having sex with me when I was asleep. He'd done it countless times before but he (and his family and friends) kept minimising it. Apparently when I signed my marriage license I signed away my right to consent. Unconscious women cannot give consent. It's simple. He could've woken you up to see if you fancied a bit. Your body. Your boundaries

Wordthe Tue 04-Dec-18 21:17:45

I think that sexually assaulting you while you're asleep it's very sinister and it feels very linked to necrophilia

qwertyl Tue 04-Dec-18 21:33:24

Well he's sorry.... it was a mistake, he doesn't know why he did it.... he's in the spare room, first time in all our time together.... unless illness or breast feeding - thank you ladies and gents for being my virtual support today. Tomorrow is another day - I don't want to think about it anymore, such a horrible feeling and NOT sexual or pleasurable for me at all - he did minimise and say it wouldn't have gone further.... why do it in the first place? It just feels such a sad situation, I really didn't think this was who he was ☹️ hugs to anyone in similar circumstances - thanksthanks

EKGEMS Tue 04-Dec-18 21:37:53

OP What did he say about the other times you suspected he had sex while you were unconscious?

Shepherdspieisminging Tue 04-Dec-18 21:45:41

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Zofloramummy Tue 04-Dec-18 21:46:40

I’m sorry qwertyl. Try to sleep tonight. I presume you haven’t made any long term decisions yet.
Of course he would try to minimise it. He is trying to make it a non-issue that he can say sorry for and forget about.
How was his manner when you got home? Did he apologise or did you have to raise it as something you needed to discuss? He must have known surely that after you left he bedroom last night that there would be some kind of repercussions?

IDrinkAndISewThings Tue 04-Dec-18 21:54:17

I'm glad you spoke to him, and I'm glad you can go to bed on your own tonight and feel halfway comfortable in your security. It's not up to anyone on here how you handle this situation - you know how it made you feel, you have an intelligent head on your shoulders, and can be trusted to make the right decision for yourself (I'm resisting say for you and your children because I think when it comes to our kids we will endure no end of personal hardship to try and protect their happiness). My only advice is to take as much time as you need on this one, do not feel you need to 'get over' this in line with anyone else's agenda. Whatever decision you make will be the right one for you, so long as you make it yourself. Much hugs x

Sassandfaff1 Tue 04-Dec-18 21:54:44

Point.....whoosh over head.

It always amuses me to turn someone's words back on them and watch them flounder around aggrieved.

Qwertyl

He hasn't explicitly said as such, but what he means is....he wouldn't have raped you.

So....in his mind, inserting fingers is an acceptable thing to do....as it doesn't quite equate to rape. You have a legal brain....I know you will see this.

He isn't the clueless idiot that the men apologists on this thread have given him credit for then...is he?

He KNOWS.

Didsomeonesaybunny Tue 04-Dec-18 21:56:46

My ex used to wake me up frequently at 3am touching me sexually. I used to think it was because he loved me; wanted to be close to me but I think it was somewhat darker to be honest.

Sassandfaff1 Tue 04-Dec-18 21:56:50

How far can I go, whilst still have the gaslightling and wiggle room of incredulous indignation of innocence?

IDrinkAndISewThings Tue 04-Dec-18 21:58:48

Seriously now @Sassandfaff1 can you drop this now? This is isn't the time or place.

Sassandfaff1 Tue 04-Dec-18 22:01:18

My last point was me pointing out the op's husband's thought process...in case that was missed.

I made 2 sentences towards others on this thread. The rest was in direct reference to the OP.

Adora10 Tue 04-Dec-18 22:06:05

Thank god you're a switched on lady who had no doubt what had gone on despite some of the shit you’ve had to read on here.

Take as long as you need to decide where you go from here and if that means ending your relationship then you’ve got the grounds for it, do what is best for you and nobody else 👍

LizzieBennettDarcy Tue 04-Dec-18 22:18:25

Don't be rush into making any decisions OP. Take your time and explore how you really feel about this. He doesn't sound very apologetic, and I wonder if you need to talk to someone professional about this on your own so you can be 100% that you can trust him enough to share a bed again.

bethy15 Tue 04-Dec-18 22:22:02

OP, do you think there's anyone you could talk to about this?

A therapist? Women's Aid? A doctor?

I hate that he made it out to be hardly anything, yet why do it anyway? It doesn't need to go further, that was bad enough as it was, it's crazy he doesn't realise this himself.

I doubt you got answers regarding other times too.

Maelstrop Tue 04-Dec-18 22:38:09

Well done for broaching it, OP. That must have been extremely difficult.

qwertyl Tue 04-Dec-18 22:42:33

Yes I really do want to talk to someone that doesn't know him - friends and family are too close and I don't want to open up to them all - you guys have been amazing and I'm glad I didnt just brush over it - our marriage is far from perfect, I don't want to make quick decisions and I know most importantly by dc are safe so I will see what tomorrow holds. I don't want to underplay it, I also don't want to make an irreparable rift. Thank you all though for investing so much time and words of support - I don't ever want to feel like I did last night xx

TheWiseWomansFear Tue 04-Dec-18 23:49:19

An accidental hand on boob or even cuddling and near private's I could understand.... what he has done is assault, quite frankly I'm sickened...

Sleephead1 Wed 05-Dec-18 06:44:40

I'm thinking of you op and I hope you slept. Never let anyone minimise your feelings what he did is wrong and I'm incredibly surprised at the people defending what he did just because he is your husband or they like it. You don't like it , you don't have to like it and you have the right to go to bed and not be assaulted.

seahorse85 Wed 05-Dec-18 07:15:00

OP I feel for you. Spoke to my partner about this this morning and he agreed it was a real violation. Awful for you. I honestly don't know what I'd do.

I haven't seen anyone defending his behaviour. No-one. I've seen different perspectives, which is always a good thing, and some unpleasant and uncalled for aggression.

However, I've RRFT and it seems pretty unanimous to me - everyone agrees this is an awful thing.

OP - remember though - you don't need validation from internet strangers. If you feel it then you feel it. Sending strength.

ToastedSandwichObsession Wed 05-Dec-18 07:37:16

Oh quertyl you have a lot of processing to do now. I hope you find someone to talk this through with. I hate hugs but I'm sending you one anyway.

MattBerrysHair Wed 05-Dec-18 14:05:06

Qwerty you seem really level headed and sensible in the face of something really traumatic.

About a year ago my dp and I were discussing our sex life and I said I'd quite like him to try waking me up with touching/penetration (I think I was ovulating and feeling particularly frisky and daring), but he said he wouldn't. I said 'it's OK if I consent to it beforehand' and he replied that it really wasn't. He is rightly very ill at ease with sexualy touching an unconscious person. After the conversation I realised that my ardour for that particular activity would completely disappear once I was asleep and in all likelihood would have elbowed him in the ribs if he tried anything.

I suppose I'm saying that if your dh tries to minimise his actions by claiming he didn't realise it was bad, all men do it, most women like it etc. you know for sure that he's talking crap.

All the best Op, ill be thinking of you 💐

Mishappening Wed 05-Dec-18 15:59:03

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

Missingstreetlife Wed 05-Dec-18 16:13:13

Rape crisis will speak to you op. Be strong, cry if you want to.

thinkingcapon Wed 05-Dec-18 16:36:28

Mishappening that's one of the most angering posts I've ever read. God forbid you never have to come into contact with any rape victims

RivanQueen Wed 05-Dec-18 16:42:09

Mishappening seriously shockangry, so by your logic anyone who has been drugged or is unconscious can't be raped because you can't have sex with someone when they're like that??? Fuck me that has to be one of the most ignorant and scary comments I've ever seen on MN.

flowers for you qwertyl, I hope you're feeling a bit better today, what you've been through is horrid.

chickenloverwoman Wed 05-Dec-18 16:44:20

I've reported the goady, nasty post

chickenloverwoman Wed 05-Dec-18 16:47:54

Thank you MNHQ, that was quick!

notapizzaeater Wed 05-Dec-18 17:32:44

I'd speak to rape crisis, they won't judge but will listen to you.

Mishappening Wed 05-Dec-18 18:01:46

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

Itwasatuesday Wed 05-Dec-18 18:59:03

Mishappening: 'i think', that's the point, you think, you have no knowledge or experience and you post was a definite (and unhelpful) statement. Yes, I think I would wake up to, my DH could be shaved and dipped in jelly and wouldn't wake up. One person's experience isn't another's, and OP is not the first to experience this so try and be a little kinder and softer when talking to someone who has experienced sexual assault.

thinkingcapon Wed 05-Dec-18 19:19:12

Mishappening you must step away from this thread please, what you're saying is hurtful insensitive and alarmingly naive

seahorse85 Wed 05-Dec-18 19:52:43

@Mishappening I take back what I said earlier about everyone being in agreement.

I don't think j you understand. What you're saying here is that asleep rape victims should just say "take a hike" and the rapist will stop.

Someone who's life has been destroyed by someone raping them when they're asleep will be distraught by you suggesting this. You see, it makes it seem as if they could have avoided it - and the inference here is that it then becomes their fault.

Do you understand? I doubt you meant to, but you have potentially caused an awful lot of anxiety and distress with your posts. Please think much more carefully before you post again.

chickenloverwoman Wed 05-Dec-18 20:12:50

@Misshappening I have reported your post, again. Stop being such a goady nasty rape apologist person. What you are saying is total rubbish. have some compassion for the OP.

qwertyl Wed 05-Dec-18 21:38:02

Thankfully I didn't see the post from mishappening but thank you again ladies for the lovely support, it's been such a comfort to have you all the last couple of days regardless of opinion, I welcome them all. It just feels surreal still that it happened, I just can't explain half waking up, realising it was happening, freezing and then Adrenalin and anger kicking in - I keep wondering how far he would have gone, and it's really hard to just forget that.... we had a bit of a heated exchange last night and he slept in the spare room, I slept pretty well and felt comfortable... I think it has changed things between us, I know it's dramatic to some but last night I told him, I'd rather he'd gone and slept with someone else (consenting) to get his kicks as would have felt less disrespectful than what he did.... that's just how I feel - I know that's not everyone! Anyway, wanted to come on and thank you all, you've really been amazing starstarthanks

Adora10 Wed 05-Dec-18 21:52:59

Totally get it OP, the level of betrayal is massive as is the abused trust, not sure how you get that back but at least now you’re wise to what’s been happening, wishing you well, you’ve had a terrible experience 🤗

LizzieBennettDarcy Wed 05-Dec-18 21:54:52

I'm glad you've found this thread helpful OP.

Frankly some posters should be ashamed of hijacking it in the way they have. This is your life, not a point scoring opportunity.

I'm glad you've had the strength to verbalise all of your feelings to your DH. Hopefully you can find a way forward that you are happy with flowers

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