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DH touching me whilst asleep

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MNHQ have commented on this thread.

qwertyl Mon 03-Dec-18 22:45:45

Am downstairs in utter shock.... after an early night and offer of back rub from'd'h woke up to find him touching me.... I stopped him before he went further but he'd already put his fingers inside me I'm sure to check if I was asleep.... oh god I feel sick. I hate him right now envy

Sethis Tue 04-Dec-18 12:19:49

To me there's a huge gaping void of difference between 'sleepy' and 'asleep'.

If my partner is asleep, she's off limits. Flat.

If I wake up first (usual) and I know the alarm is going to go off soon, and I'm horny, then I'll wake her up with kisses on her neck and whispering her name. When she wakes up from this, there's normally a clear indication of whether she's in the mood or not. If not, I start making her coffee.

If she's sleepy or groggy and I'm horny then the first step, again, is kissing and surface stroking of the skin. Get a signal of go/no go, and respect whichever is given.

It wouldn't occur to me to ever, EVER, penetrate her with anything, either while sleeping or as a first move. You obtain consent before penetration, and I'm honestly baffled that some women are happy to say that this isn't so, just because you've been sharing a bed for years. Creepy as fuck. And yeah, sexual assault. That's the literal definition of 'sexual penetration without consent'.

Quartz2208 Tue 04-Dec-18 12:21:19

Scattypenny if you continued to do so with your partner asleep or he had said no than yes. But I assume you have never done that.

In all relationships I agree there is a consent of implied consent to initiate sex or starting physical contact - otherwise it would never happen. This though relies on a continued positive response from both parties something that cannot be given if the person is asleep. Within that everyone is different as to boundaries and likes and dislikes but the basic premise remains the same whatever the sexual act or kink is. Consent can always be withdraw and must be freely given.

This though is something else - she has actually said he knew it would be a no if he tried anything and he wanted her to be asleep. The sad truth is the OP was assaulted and then had her assault minimised by women

OP please try and get real life support for this

Mitzimaybe Tue 04-Dec-18 12:27:10

I have, in fact, put my hands down my sleeping partner's pants in the past...

Am I a rapist? A sexual predator that should be banged up to protect mankind?

If your partner has made it absolutely clear in the past that he/she does not like being touched in a certain way, and does not like being touched intimately when asleep then yes, you are committing sexual assault and should possibly be banged up. It is very worrying that you can't see this.

Momo18 Tue 04-Dec-18 12:36:25

Hmm myself and my DH have both discussed our boundaries and we like this sort of thing, but the touching leads to us both being awake and deciding to touch and have sex. However what you describe is very different, it sounds like he knows you wouldn't be up for it so he's sneakily doing it. That is the difference between consent and violation. If he genuinely knows that you don't like to be touched in your sleep and he's doing it anyway in the hopes you aren't aware then he is sick and and abusing you sad

ScattyPenny Tue 04-Dec-18 12:37:05

We never had the conversation. Sometimes he responded, other times he just mumbled 'not now, I'm sleeping'. He was never upset or offended.

I got the impression that the op and her husband had never discussed this (maybe she said they have and I've stupidly missed that bit).

I think that if she expresses her feelings to him and he does it again, then yes, absolutely it's assault.

But, had they never had that conversation, he has crossed her boundaries and needs to be made aware of that. He may have done it with exes and they responded well and he thought it was okay. His bad. Not the behaviour of a dangerous sex pest, in my opinion. UNLESS he knew she would feel violated.

MemoryOfSleep Tue 04-Dec-18 12:48:46

Crikey, people, it does not matter whether you think you would mind! This is the OP's thread, about how she feels.

Adora10 Tue 04-Dec-18 12:48:51

just used the example above that my boyfriend didn't wash his hands before fingering me, I couldn't believe he was so stupid

No not stupid, just one dirty inconsiderate bastard.

As for you Scatty, nobody is interested in your sex life and what you allow to happen, we are here for the OP, do you still not get that? You talk some shit.

Wordthe Tue 04-Dec-18 12:49:29

In this instance the man is getting off on having power over the woman, she is at her absolute most vulnerable and with the person that she thinks she can trust the most

Wanting to have sex with an unconscious person?
I find that very disturbing, I would put it in a category with necrophilia

Sleephead1 Tue 04-Dec-18 12:50:15

Hi op im shocked so many people are minimising your feelings if you and your partner do this and are both happy well fine but that doesnt mean anyone else has to be happy about it maybe you love it but you must understand not everyone does and op has the right to not want this to happen to get when she is asleep. Op couldn't consent as she was asleep so it is assault if you look at the legal definition. I find it very disturbing someone wants to have sex with someone unconscious. A similar thing happened to me along time ago with a friend I slept at his house on the sofa bed and in the morning woke to find him in the bed I was in ( he was in his own bed that night ) with his fingers Inside me. I was very shocked and I'm lots of pain I do feel violated by that , he didn't have my consent , i didnt want him to do it but for me ( and maybe this is similar for op ) you just have no idea what happened to you , how long did it go on for? what did he do ? That's the worst part and the part i still struggle with now.

Adora10 Tue 04-Dec-18 12:50:18

Not the behaviour of a dangerous sex pest, in my opinion

Fuck off with your sexual analysis, you clearly no fuck all about boundaries and consent, READ the OP's thread again, stop turning it around to be about you and your sex life!!!!

Adora10 Tue 04-Dec-18 12:51:34

It wouldn't occur to me to ever, EVER, penetrate her with anything, either while sleeping or as a first move. You obtain consent before penetration, and I'm honestly baffled that some women are happy to say that this isn't so, just because you've been sharing a bed for years. Creepy as fuck. And yeah, sexual assault. That's the literal definition of 'sexual penetration without consent'.

Sethis, so well said.

BerriTerri Tue 04-Dec-18 12:56:25

I think context is important, because after 15 yrs you know if something sexually upsets your partner or if they are ok with it. The problem is ever deliberately doing something that you know upsets them. You just don’t do things to people they are not ok with sexually, and whilst it’s often implied in long term relationships you do know what the boundaries are. Bollocks if he’s lied and touched her in a way she hates did he not know what to do it.

HoustonBess Tue 04-Dec-18 12:57:46

People are focusing on the sexual part of this, OP said she does not like her stomach to be touched EVER and her DH touched it, seems a very clear violation to me. She might have consented to sexual bit if awake enough, but not the stomach bit.

Santasushi Tue 04-Dec-18 12:59:58

Op, I’m sorry this is happening to you.

Scatty, why would anyone have that conversation? ‘If I’m sleeping don’t assault me’. Surely it’s a given?

RedDeadRoach Tue 04-Dec-18 13:04:15

I think that if she expresses her feelings to him and he does it again, then yes, absolutely it's assault.

Wrong. It's assault this time too.

Knittink Tue 04-Dec-18 13:05:48

Can people not read? The OP said id half suspected in the past but he's always dismissed it.

He's always dismissed it. Why would he dismiss it unless he knows he is doing wrong?

Wordthe Tue 04-Dec-18 13:08:04

He has assaulted you while you were asleep 'grabbing' your stomach (in full knowledge that you feel self-conscious and uncomfortable about this body area) and sexually violating you
this is done to humiliate and demean and to show that he is in a position of power and control over you, your feelings, your sensibilities, your rights, these are not important
You are an object and you belong to him

Momo18 Tue 04-Dec-18 13:09:01

Nobody can force their boundaries on anyone else as we all have different boundaries. Sleepy fondling in my relationship is enjoyed, we joke about it the morning after and it's definitely consented. This for me and my DH is not abuse despite one of us initially touching the other when asleep, we both wake up and it leads to more. There is no direct stimulation or sex till we are awake, but again I actually don't mind that but we are always awake by this point and one either says not tonight or we crack on!

However I would never say the op is over reacting either, her boundaries have been crossed and what she describes is almost predator like. If he truly waits for her to be unconscious so he can touch and he has no intention of it waking her to participate in enjoyment together then it's abuse. It's not rocket science, she doesn't like to be touched in her sleep and it's repulsed her. This too reminds me of necrophilia, if ops DH intended for her to remain unaware and she suspects he's done it before too, well that's vile and abuse. Touching someone intimately and intending for them to never be aware whilst they sleep is creepy.

SpongeBobJudgeyPants Tue 04-Dec-18 13:12:07

Every thread like this brings out all the rape apologists. If, presumably women, dont get it, how are we going to stop blokes being rapey bastards? angry PP. You may have the sort of relationship where it is accepted that this is ok. Qerty does not. Surely you can see the difference? hmm

Adora10 Tue 04-Dec-18 13:12:14

How thick are some people on here; should not be giving advice and having a word with themselves.

I actually feel nauseas that some people are telling the OP to be OK with this, it's really stomach churning.

OP, not sure where you go from this, and do not feel bad if you actually want to end this relationship; if you can't feel safe in your own bed, then honestly, get him to fuck!

SingedChinchilla Tue 04-Dec-18 13:20:08

I got the impression that the op and her husband had never discussed this

Why should they need to have a discussion? Does it really need spelling out to people that they shouldn't have sex with someone if they can't consent because they're asleep and not even aware it's happening?

What if a woman was drunk and passed out - is it still ok for her husband to penetrate her then?

Some people have fucked up views. Sorry this has happened to you and so many others, OP. It's not right and you know it.

Wordthe Tue 04-Dec-18 13:21:44

As well as the necrophilia link I am also reminded of sex dolls, men who choose as sexual 'partners' dolls which look like women but they are of course passive and exist solely and exclusively for the purpose of men's sexual pleasure

By sexually assaulting you when you are unconscious and unresponsive, totally passive he's making you into an object, a thing which is not human and has no rights.

A normal and caring response to a sleeping person is to respect their right to rest and to protect them whilst they do so it is not to take advantage and violate them
I think this is very very disturbing

the perpetrator can get away from it because some people do enjoy sexual activity whilst drowsywe consider this normal because consent is clearly given, and he can pretend that it belongs in that category of things, taking advantage of your confusion and upset to divert your attention away from what he has done

PippyRose Tue 04-Dec-18 13:21:48

Reading back, I can't see anyone telling the OP to be OK with this Adora.

Pretty much everyone has said that if she's not happy with it then it's not ok. Even posters who said they'd be ok with it themselves.

PippyRose Tue 04-Dec-18 13:23:47

Spongebob - I don't see any rape apologies either.

ScattyPenny - I think it's different with men. Not sure why but maybe a physical ability to overpower?

Notcoolmum Tue 04-Dec-18 13:25:04

Im surprised and upset by how many people are minimising the OPs experience and reaction. Sleepy, mutually enjoyed sex is great. Penetrating someone whilst they are sound asleep is not. Someone made a comment about how they couldn’t imagine not being woken up before penetration even though they take sedating tablets. My ex didn’t attempt to wake me up or arouse me. Just straight to penetration. So when was I supposed to wake up?
The feeling of being scared to go to sleep in your own bed as you don’t know what might happen to you is awful. Just because your relationship is not like that does nkt give you the right to minimise the experience for those of us who have had to face this.

Adora10 Tue 04-Dec-18 13:27:35

Pippy, I suggest you read again, there is clearly a minority that are minimising and excusing.

I've been in my relationship 17 years, not once have I had to say to my husband, don't put your fingers inside me if I am sleeping!

Some views on here are exactly why over 70% of rape cases are dropped or not proven; because some women are actually perpetuating this kind of assault and calling it part of a loving relationship.

To have that kind of sex you must surely have THAT kind of discussion.

It's not a given, it's not a right, it's assault, and it's creepy as fuck as he's clearly is getting off on the fact she's asleep.

Nesssie Tue 04-Dec-18 13:28:41

Exactly PippyRose- some of us are saying that we would be ok with it. We've all said that is she doesn't feel comfortable with him, then leave.

We are not victim blaming or rape apologists.

Adora10 Tue 04-Dec-18 13:30:53

We are not victim blaming or rape apologists.

In your opinion Nesssie; for a lot on here reading these posts, that is exactly how we interpret it.

Quartz2208 Tue 04-Dec-18 13:31:13

This is when I feel old - Nessssie you would be ok with your partner having sex with you when asleep.
Because I dont get it this isnt sleepy mutally satisfying sex, its treating you as a sex doll who needs and desires are secondary to his.

Noopey Tue 04-Dec-18 13:34:07

I’m so sorry this has happened to you OP. What on earth if your husband thinking??

I wonder what your husband would think if he found out you’d been putting your fingers up his arse while he slept for your own pleasure. Think he’d feel pretty assaulted.

Has anyone ever seen the Tea analogy?? If someone is asleep they don’t want tea. Don’t force it down their throat.... If someone is asleep they don’t want sex, or to have fingers inserted into any part of their body, so don’t penetrate them.

Nesssie Tue 04-Dec-18 13:34:29

Quartz2208 - I would be ok with my partner groping/fingering me whilst I was asleep to start the process. Same as if I give him a BJ whilst he was asleep.
But penis in vagina is an awake act.

PippyRose Tue 04-Dec-18 13:35:13

But there's a big difference between sex and fingering - which is foreplay.

If he's a shit in other aspects of the relationship then maybe this is him being a bully. Otherwise I think it's just something you need to discuss with him.

PippyRose Tue 04-Dec-18 13:35:36

What you said Nessie.

NottonightJosepheen Tue 04-Dec-18 13:38:08

What Noopey said.

Noopey Tue 04-Dec-18 13:38:32

Nessie- but I’m guessing this is something you’ve talked about and agreed on. And that if the other person didn’t wake up relatively quickly you’d stop. Not just carry on touching them while asleep until you’d cum?!

ScattyPenny Tue 04-Dec-18 13:40:23

Adora10 I think you are being a bit aggressive. I was in no way using this thread to talk about my sex life. Only in relation to the original post.

Why are you being so bloody minded? All people are saying is that they would not have a problem with it. Just because you do, doesn't mean you have the moral high ground.

Noopey Tue 04-Dec-18 13:40:56

The Tea Analogy. It’s very good....

Chocolate123 Tue 04-Dec-18 13:41:14

He waited until you were asleep and touched you intimately without your consent. That's assault. I hope you are ok OP and do what's best for you. This cannot happen again.

Adora10 Tue 04-Dec-18 13:45:21

Nesssie and Pippy, this thread is not about your sexual relationship where you both touch each other intimately when asleep; this is about the OP feeling violated, feeling in her gut something was wrong before, that he had touched her explicitly whilst she was sleeping.

In fact, waiting for her to go asleep before he proceeded to touch her by inserting his fingers.

Are you both really that fucken stupid, you can't tell the difference, or that self centred you can't see any other situation apart from your own?

Nobody cares if your partner sticks a ten foot pole up your vagina, we are not here to discuss what you see as consent.

I am so angry at your minimising of what this actually is.

Adora10 Tue 04-Dec-18 13:48:10

Scatty, yeah I am angry, angry that idiots like you are able to come on and minimise and turn a thread about themselves.

You must be really stupid if you think what the OP has described is what you are comparing it to with your own sex life.

maximumcarnage Tue 04-Dec-18 13:49:01

First up I am totally not okay with this, anything happening between me and a woman that doesn't involve consent is a big no, no.

Saying that I had a conversation with my then girlfriend (now ex). I was discussing a case where a man was having sex with a woman against her will due to some sort of sleeping disorder. I asked her if ever she woke with me having sex with her, what would she do or think? She said without missing a beat, oh I would join in. I was genuinely horrified. To me it's rape, plain and simple.

paige789 Tue 04-Dec-18 13:50:02

@Nesssie have you lost your mind ? So what if you didn't want to have sex ? Its blatant sexual assault

rachelfrost Tue 04-Dec-18 13:50:16

I think the big thing here is that op hasn’t spoken to her partner about this. It sounds like he knew she was an unusually deep sleeper and that she didn’t like her stomach being touched so what he did was wrong for their relationship. If op is not scared of her partner then it seems really important for her own sanity that she confront him, discuss this and establish that it’s not to happen again.

SleepingStandingUp Tue 04-Dec-18 13:50:23

I've been in my relationship 17 years, not once have I had to say to my husband, don't put your fingers inside me if I am sleeping!
This. Are we meant to have to to explicitly list all the ways they could sexually assault us and ask them not to?

Those who are open to their partners fingering them whilst they sleep. Are you OK with them doing it purely to get themselves off, hoping you don't wake? For them to specifically wait for you to go to sleep, having woken lightly wait for you to go deep sleep again before starting again?

Nesssie Tue 04-Dec-18 13:50:31

Noopey - Not expressly. And there was no suggestion that he would have * carry on touching them while asleep until you’d cum?!*

She stopped him, he stopped. Now, if he has continued, or did it again - then I would be saying something very different.

If shes not comfortable, then shes not comfortable and that's good enough reason to leave. But if she wants her marriage to try and continue, she needs to expressly tell him not to touch her whilst she is asleep, so that the boundaries are clear. She admits that they have had sleepy sex before, she now needs to make it clear what is acceptable to her.

Nesssie Tue 04-Dec-18 13:52:21

paige789 So what if you didn't want to have sex? - then I would stop him/he would stop me. Anything after that is sexual assault.

paige789 Tue 04-Dec-18 13:54:27

@Nesssie I can't believe you think it is ok for a man to put his fingers inside you whilst your asleep. What if you didn't want to be fingered ? Just tell him to stop ? He shouldn't of starting in the first place if you were asleep and weren't able to tell him no.

Quartz2208 Tue 04-Dec-18 13:54:35

Nesssie have you rft = the OP has been concerned that this has been happening awhile and suspect PIV has taken place.

As I have said there is a difference between starting the process and this which appears to be him trying to confirm she is asleep so he can start the process
If shes not comfortable, then shes not comfortable and that's good enough reason to leave. But if she wants her marriage to try and continue, she needs to expressly tell him not to touch her whilst she is asleep, so that the boundaries are clear. She admits that they have had sleepy sex before, she now needs to make it clear what is acceptable to her.

This however is unfairly putting in on her he knows what is and isnt accpetable hence his behaviour

paige789 Tue 04-Dec-18 13:56:43

@Nesssie is the fact she was asleep not a big enough indication that she doesn't want to be fingered. You need to education yourself on sexual assault and the difference between right and wrong

Nesssie Tue 04-Dec-18 13:58:57

paige789 I think its ok for my partner who I trust and have a sexual relationship with, to put his fingers inside of me whilst I'm asleep with the intention of waking me up to have sex. And if i wanted him to stop, I would tell him (or usually roll over and wrap the duvet round me) and that would be the end. I wouldn't be angry he did it. I would be angry if he then tried 5 minutes later etc.

Anyway, time and time again I have said this 'boundary' is different in every relationship, and at the end of the day, of the OP is uncomfortable, then it is wrong.

bethy15 Tue 04-Dec-18 14:02:44

Quartz, you're not old, it's not a modern thing to believe that this is OK. I would say that it's an older fashioned idea to believe that your body is subject to your partners will when you're asleep.

I am somewhat worried and disturbed with some posters here and what they believe is OK, but please, don't lay it onto other people to believe as you do, as somewhat pointed out earlier, legally, there's no question.

The fact the OP has asked her husband before if he has done something to her while she was asleep, I am making an educated guess that those questions would highlight that she doesn't want it done to her.

Adora10 Tue 04-Dec-18 14:09:13

If shes not comfortable, then shes not comfortable

Nesssie, minimising again.

If you bothered to read the OPs feelings on the matter, I doubt comfortable is an appropriate word, try, shock and feeling sick.

She also said:

I'm sure to make sure I was asleep

What more evidence do you want or need??????

Sunisshining5346 Tue 04-Dec-18 14:11:38

OP you need to just look at the majority on here. The majority think this is completely unacceptable!!! The odd idiot just wants an argument! This is extremely serious. You feel violated. You will feel on edge everytime you go to sleep from now on.


Bekabeech Tue 04-Dec-18 14:14:02

OP you are not over reacting.
My advice is to phone rape crisis and talk to them. Get professional help and advice.

And my bottom line is if you feel violated you probably have regardless of the law or what a court would say. And ultimately what happens next is your decision.

Adora10 Tue 04-Dec-18 14:14:59

Eeeew, imagine being fast asleep and your partner thinking it ok to insert two fingers inside you, to get you going.

Nesssie, he must be one shit lover pal that's all I can say.

CandyCreeper Tue 04-Dec-18 14:18:55

This comes up on here so often, and it always splits opinions personally it wouldnt bother me but i understand everyone is different.

Sunisshining5346 Tue 04-Dec-18 14:21:45

It wouldn't bother you? So if you didn't wake up, your partner had put his fingers into while you were asleep and got off on it.
You wake up the next morning and have no idea that he had done that. He tells you what he did. You would be ok with that?!

CandyCreeper Tue 04-Dec-18 14:24:18

wouldnt bother
me, I cant pretend that it would 🤷‍♀️.

Missingstreetlife Tue 04-Dec-18 14:27:14

It doesn't matter what most people think, legally it's assault.
Op should speak to her partner unless she is afraid, in which case leave with children or throw him out. Show him the cup of tea video, it's so clear and tell him he's a nonce. Don't sleep with him ATM, spare bed or sofa.
If he doesnt get it she should kick him out. If he is apologetic she should use her judgement as to whether it's genuine and consider if she wants to separate. He has to know this is a red line.
Op unfortunately there are other threads on this same issue and lots of advice support (and some idiots).
Rape crisis, women's aid will help. It's clear abuse, best wishes to you.

Twinningsloverbutnotanymore Tue 04-Dec-18 14:29:08

Oh wow this is a deal breaker for me. He's out in my eyes. Toss his shit in the street and don't you dare feel bad. He's a rat. No way this is secxual assault you never said yes.

loveyoutothemoon Tue 04-Dec-18 14:29:28

I sympathise with you OP. My ex used to do this, even after me telling him I didn't want him to. (That was part of a very bigger picture though).

I never thought that it was sexual assault at the time but I've seen so many people on here over the years saying that it is.

The main thing is, it's up to you if you forgive him or not but if it were to happen again after you setting the boundaries, that's unforgivable.

Nesssie Tue 04-Dec-18 14:30:20

Sunisshining5346 but no one is saying that? Some of us are saying that we don't need to give express permission every time to our oh to start turning us on in anticipation of sex.

Adora10 on the contrary, waking up to oral sex/fingering is delightful.

Nesssie Tue 04-Dec-18 14:31:48

My ex used to do this, even after me telling him I didn't want him to. - Now this is clear cut sexual abuse.

and this The main thing is, it's up to you if you forgive him or not but if it were to happen again after you setting the boundaries, that's unforgivable. is the main point here.

bethy15 Tue 04-Dec-18 14:32:31

How can you know it would never bother you?

I seriously don't understand this at all. What if you were in crippling pain with a UTI or period pain? Or not in the mood to be penetrated?

You know your body is yours, and not nothing more then a sex toy at the disposal of a partner, asleep or awake?

bethy15 Tue 04-Dec-18 14:35:12

I believe she already questioned if he was doing things to her in her sleep, and set the boundaries that it wasn't a good thing.

They were already established beforehand.

And here's another thing, no decent man thinks it's OK to penetrate an unconscious woman, whether they are in a relationship or not. A man who actually penetrates a sleeping woman and is fine with that is not OK.

CandyCreeper Tue 04-Dec-18 14:36:18

Because its happened, it doesnt bother me. Not everyone gets upset or feels violated all the time.

Adora10 Tue 04-Dec-18 14:37:21

Nessie, I never said oral, now did I?

Read again, you seem to have a real problem understanding other's posts.

Shepherdspieisminging Tue 04-Dec-18 14:38:11

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Sunisshining5346 Tue 04-Dec-18 14:41:44

Candycreeper is saying that..she has just said it wouldn't bother her!!

It is very clear that the OP found this extremely distressing. She needs encourgement that she is right to feel like that, she isn't in the wrong. Not warped people on here telling her they wouldn't mind!!
Your relationship is not hers!!

She is upset and disgusted. And people should be reassuring her that is completely right to feel like that. Not making her doubt herself, by telling her they wouldn't mind!!

Quartz2208 Tue 04-Dec-18 14:42:04

Candycreeper - what has happened though - full PIV sex when asleep or just the starting of to see if you are awake

The two are very different

Nesssie Tue 04-Dec-18 14:43:33

She needs encourgement that she is right to feel like that,

The whole way through I've said that I don't mind but it all depends on the individual relationship and if its not ok with her, then it is not ok end of.

hannah1992 Tue 04-Dec-18 14:49:46

I think what some posters aren't getting here is that in a trusting and loving relationship waking up your partner in a sexual way can be arousing etc

However, this is not what the OP is saying. She's saying that her DH waited for her to be asleep so he could do whatever. That is a completely different situation to being asleep all night and being woken up sexually in the morning by a horny partner or whatever.

OPs DH purposely waited for her to be asleep and made sure she was before he attempted anything which is quite frankly weird and not ok.

If My DH wants to wake me up by kissing me and touching me then that's great with me (doesn't happen due to children) but we know each other and are comfortable and we know what each other likes. If he had waited for me to be asleep like the OP has described to have his wicked way it would be a whole different story

Sunisshining5346 Tue 04-Dec-18 14:50:00

Not everybody is adding if she's not ok with it, then it's not ok though. Just writing a sentence saying 'I wouldn't mind' is dangerous! And could sway her into thinking she might be over reacting.

Adora10 Tue 04-Dec-18 14:52:27

The whole way through I've said that I don't mind

But nobody was interested in your sex life or what you thought about your relationship, same with the other minimisers and excusers; the OPs point is clear to understand, you and a few others have done a great job of derailing and dismissing her feelings on the matter.

She knows her own life and what has been happening, you don't so but out if all you can do is go on about how you love being fingered when sleeping, you are actually giving me the boak, I don't think I've ever came across anyone that is so self centred they can't actually even understand what this post is about.

ToastedSandwichObsession Tue 04-Dec-18 14:55:34

Oh Op this is wrong, your post made me feel shivery. This would be a deal breaker for me, no question especially because you'd laid your boundaries out already and he's ignored them.

On a side note I too am quite appalled at some views expressed on this subject. In fact I wasn't going to read on until the last comment on the first page (on my ipad) jumped out at me.

user1479305498 Tue 04-Dec-18 14:56:42

Whoa! It doesn’t matter if some women would find this ok, you don’t one bit and nor would I. It’s the same as porn etc, it doesn’t matter if 3 out of 5 women have no issue with their partners whacking off to sex workers every day , if you have an issue with it, that’s totally your prerogative whilst in that relationship. I would leave someone for this to be honest.

Aquilla Tue 04-Dec-18 14:56:51

Here's a crazy idea: why don't you tell him loudly to fucking stop that.

picklemebaubles Tue 04-Dec-18 14:57:34

Quick summary for the hard of thinking...

OP is upset about what happened.
He grabbed her belly knowing she doesn't like it, while she was asleep.
He stopped when she woke up.
He waited until she was asleep, did it again, and pushed his fingers into her.
He knew she'd have said no if he initiated sex.
She thinks he's done it before, as she's woken up wet.

Does any of that sound like consensual sex? Sleepy wake up sex? No? That's right, because it isn't, it's assault.
No murmurs of endearment, actions to turn her on, nothing. NOT CONSENSUAL.


SleepingStandingUp Tue 04-Dec-18 15:15:21

Here's a crazy idea: why don't you tell him loudly to fucking stop that
So it's back to being op's fault. By the time he'd forced his fingers into her, it was too late for the assault to have not happened. She clearly didn't lie there whilst he got himself off so stopped it as soon as she could but there's also panic, incomprehension, shoc ketc which can render someone incapable of action. It isn't PP's fault that her partner assaulted her

Nesssie Tue 04-Dec-18 15:15:31

Adora10 don't just take half my sentence to try and prove a point, I finished that sentence with if its not ok with her, then it is not ok end of

picklemepopcorn Tue 04-Dec-18 15:23:43

Nessie, when you read my summary a couple of posts back, does it sound like that would be ok sometimes?

Adora10 Tue 04-Dec-18 15:34:09

Adora10 don't just take half my sentence to try and prove a point,

All you have banged on about is how you would be ok with this type of sex, we all heard you loud and clear, you are completely missing the point, and my point above was deliberate, because, you seem to be incapable of distinguishing between enjoyable sex and sex forced on you whilst unconscious, fuck knows how you can't tell the difference.

Onestep2 Tue 04-Dec-18 15:44:09

@scattypenny I'm the same as you. I've woken DH up with blow jobs or touching his penis and he has woken me up under similar circumstances and I rather enjoy it. in our relationship this is totally normal and I would never dream of saying I had been sexually assaulted.

That said HOWEVER, I think the fact is OP is that you yourself felt uncomfortable/violated with what happened. I think you really need to speak to your DH to find out what his intentions were and if you can move past it. If not then it's up to you where you go from here. Good luck.

Nesssie Tue 04-Dec-18 15:47:17

I wouldn't bother Onestep2 I've spent 8 pages trying to stay exactly that.

ScattyPenny Tue 04-Dec-18 15:47:18

Adora, calm the fuck down. You seem to be more upset about this than the OP.

Some women would be fine with it. Others wouldn't.

It's not a war. It's just different people with different ideas about what is acceptable in a relationship. OP isn't fine with it. Nobody is vilifying her for that. Nobody should be telling her how she should think or feel on either side of the fence.

I share my body with my partner (and vice versa) because I love and trust him. If he ever did anything to hurt or frighten me that would change. It's probably got a lot to do with past experiences.

Not one person here has said that the OP is wrong to feel the way she does.

ScattyPenny Tue 04-Dec-18 15:47:52

Onestep, exactly that.

bethy15 Tue 04-Dec-18 15:49:24

Why are the loudest voices those who think it's fine.

Here's an idea, keep it to yourself you think it's fine if you're woken up being sexually assaulted. It doesn't matter if you like it or think it's fine, it's not, even in the eyes of the law, it's not.

If you enjoy it, TBH that's your problem, and maybe you should work on that yourself, but the OP is not OK with it, she felt sick about it and was in an emotional state. This isn't normal, and shouldn't be normalised by other women with a 'take it on the chin' mentality.

This could have been happening previously too, and the OP is concerned. If you believe being penetrated without consent or consciousness is normal then step away from this thread and go and read and educate yourself on consent and lack there of. Because it's not normal and it's not fine.

Adora10 Tue 04-Dec-18 15:52:03

Adora, calm the fuck down. You seem to be more upset about this than the OP.

You are actually dangerous, the poor OP, shocked and feeling utterly sick and you compare my reaction to you and your minimisers to worse than what she has been through; utter shame on you, you make me sick, I hope this thread gets pulled for the OPs sake, people like you should not be allowed to post.

CaptainsYuleLog Tue 04-Dec-18 15:55:07

I suspect there are hairy hands on this thread. Creepy.

Quartz2208 Tue 04-Dec-18 15:55:16

Adora, myself and others are trying to say though the onestep that isnt the point, it isnt exactly that.

This thread is not about being woken up with people initiating sex. No one is arguing that it is sexual assault to do that in a relationship.

This is not about that. This is about a man who knew that the answer would be no to sex. Who touched his wife in an area he knew she disliked to check she was asleep. Further presumably put his fingers inside her to double check she was asleep. This is also an OP who has in the past thought that he had done the same and gone even further and had PIV when she was asleep. This is as much as control, power and ownership as it is about sex.

Most find the idea of this revolting. I also find the idea that people are ok with this (and the second example not the first) because its further evidence in the erosion of the idea that sex should be a mutually enjoyable pasttime. That is what upsets me.

ScattyPenny Tue 04-Dec-18 15:56:04

Okay. Fair enough. You win this battle you have created.

Like Nessie, I give up and wish the OP good luck in whatever she chooses to do.

bethy15 Tue 04-Dec-18 16:08:31

Please do give up, honestly, certain people are damaging to other women and in no way help the OP pushing an agenda that it's fine.

Adora10 Tue 04-Dec-18 16:10:42

Quartz, I know exactly what this is about, I just can't stand people comparing it to sex with their partners and how they are A ok with it.

You would have to be thick as mince to read what the OP has written and then compare it to your own sex life when it is clearly an emotional post about violation and sexual assault.

PoesyCherish Tue 04-Dec-18 16:20:35

I'm so sorry this has happened to you. How awful. You are not overreacting at all and it is not okay for him to have done this. What he's done is sexual assault. I know that's probably really hard to hear right now but trust your feelings and instincts on this.

You mention not wanting to leave the DC alone with him, do you think you could tell him to leave? You don't / shouldn't need to leave, it's your house and he's the one in the wrong, he should be the one leaving. Either just to give you space (if it's what you want) or more permanently. Sending an unmumsnetty hug flowers

IToldYouIWasFreaky Tue 04-Dec-18 16:31:02

Can I please just re-post picklemebaubles summary over and over again?
Though I am not sure why it needs repeating FFS! This wasn't an attempt to initiate some sleepy, mutually satisfying sex. This was the OP's partner shoving his fingers inside her WITHOUT HER CONSENT!

OP, I hope you are OK and getting some real life support, and that the way this thread has turned out hasn't upset you further.

CantWaitToRetire Tue 04-Dec-18 16:45:30

OP, if you can hear me alongside all the arguments that are going on between other posters, then I have a genuine question.

You say you sleep heavier than your partner and fall asleep quicker. You also say you think he wanted you to be asleep before touching you. So my question is, do you feel you've been sleeping heavier than normal on this or other occasions? I don't particularly want to suggest something sinister, but is there any chance you've been given anything to make you sleepy? I'm happy to be told absolutely not and I'm way off the mark, but in the context of what has been happening, and what you may have slept through previously, it's worth exploring.

cocodash Tue 04-Dec-18 16:58:09

OP I feel so bad that this has happened to you I truly do. As many have posted on here, only you know your own boundaries and obviously in this case your boundaries have been well and truley crossed leaving you hurt and confused at the man you have spent so long sharing a bed with. Which is not okay in any relationship. I hope that you find the comfort knowing that you have so much support in this thread and that you find the courage to deal with the situation as you see fit.

I also understand that Mumsnet is a forum where people post their own personal opinions, and quite rightly everyone has different opinions that they are entitle to and have a right to voice this opinion. Where a difference of opinions happen there usually is a debate, however I feel some posters on this have taken this “debate” too far.

Regardless of the subject matter of this thread @Adora10 the way you speak to others and have come across on this thread is absolutely disgusting. Your aggressive language, abusive comments towards other posters is nothing short of bully tactics. You have absolutely no right to call other woman thick and stupid and brand their opinions worthless. The fact you think this is acceptable is beyond vile and is downright abusive and demeaning to other woman. You should be ashamed of the way you have spoken to other woman on this thread

bethy15 Tue 04-Dec-18 17:03:58

but is there any chance you've been given anything to make you sleepy? I'm happy to be told absolutely not and I'm way off the mark, but in the context of what has been happening, and what you may have slept through previously, it's worth exploring.

This is something I was asking about earlier, without really saying it, asking why it was she was sleeping heavier.

As she said she felt he could have done this before as she felt wet on waking, there is something to explore and think about here.

90mammasophie Tue 04-Dec-18 17:05:45

Really surprised by a lot of these comments. What's happened IS a serious thing. I don't know how you'd be able to sleep beside him now, knowing he might start touching you or more. Do you trust him? In general ? You think he might have been doing this (maybe more) for a while.. what else might he be capable of. Sorry. Wishing you strength to deal with this situation.

Adora10 Tue 04-Dec-18 17:10:33

Coco: do you actually think I care about women who are finding excuses for a man that has clearly violated a woman?

What I find disgusting and what you find disgusting are two different things, and I'm A OK with that, I can also sleep well tonight knowing I called out people who were deliberately minimising what is sexual assault and everything I have said is in defence of the OP, so take your opinions of me and shove them Coco, I honestly don't care what you think of me.

Using words like thick and stupid are valid in this instance so you telling me to feel ashamed has jack shit effect on me, you'd be better spending your time advising the OP than slagging me off.

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