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DH touching me whilst asleep

(422 Posts)

MNHQ have commented on this thread.

qwertyl Mon 03-Dec-18 22:45:45

Am downstairs in utter shock.... after an early night and offer of back rub from'd'h woke up to find him touching me.... I stopped him before he went further but he'd already put his fingers inside me I'm sure to check if I was asleep.... oh god I feel sick. I hate him right now envy

qwertyl Tue 04-Dec-18 17:27:38

Have read all the posts, it's been on my mind all day and I know I have to discuss this evening even though I want it to go away. I can't respond to everyone's points but I can say:

We have had sleepy sex, this was different. I am sure he didn't want me to wake up. It makes me feel sick and sad to type that as it makes me believe he sees sex as a purely physical act for him that he wants/will get regardless. If I ever felt horny and he was asleep/away etc I'd find a way to satisfy that need without violating him - as I said, he has a high sex drive, he probably wouldn't ever say no or feel violated.

How can he see that with 4 DD if this happened to them he would be furious I'm sure...I am sure he would never touch them at all (have no reason to believe otherwise) but the deviancy of last night is now making me question everything (please don't make this worse launching into child sex abuse etc. I AM NOT suggesting that but 15+ years with a man I thought I knew has made me question that...

As to drugging. No, again, would not believe so but is his form to give me one more glass of wine etc yes, and I go along with it so I probably am sleepy enough to let it happen. I get more tired than he and I am often up with the dcs when he is not. So drink has probably played a part -

I just feel desperately sad that for whatever this reason this has happened and DH is not the DH I'd hoped for me and my dcs....

I'm sorry to have started any fighting obstacles posters who have all tried to help. I'd desperately love a day or two on my own trying to work things through but job and dcs won't allow that - no way he'll go somewhere else. We have 2 step dcs who visit through the week and I really don't want to cause a problem if everyone's life/

Oh and lastly - I did tell him to get the fuck off, jumped up and went downstairs followed by sleeping in DDs room once is felt him out his fingers in me which thankfully was enough to wake me. He was coming towards me (my back) and I have every intention of asking if he intended to put his penis in me or to get his kicks with his fingers there because I am certain it wasn't with the intention of waking me up to get involved.... we have sex two to three times a week, he's hardly starved...

Shepherdspieisminging Tue 04-Dec-18 17:28:09

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Sassandfaff1 Tue 04-Dec-18 17:28:57

Christ this is a shit show.

This isn't the equivalent of being woken up by oral.

This is the equivalent of me poking my DH to check he's asleep and then sticking two fingers in his ass while I masturbate myself off.

He's using her as a aide to his orgasms.

Some women on this thread are thick as mince.

OP. It is sexual assault. He knows it too. He doesn't care. What the men apologists don't realise is this sort of behaviour is only displayed by bastards who go on to do more and more bastard things.

Naive, loving women, who minimalise and think men are stupid and just need teaching, usually come back in a few years and admit it got a lot worse.

Don't waste those years. Cut your lossesnow and find a man who doesn't believe he's entitled to use you like a blow up doll.

Shepherdspieisminging Tue 04-Dec-18 17:29:30

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Shepherdspieisminging Tue 04-Dec-18 17:30:36

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

NewFreshStarts Tue 04-Dec-18 17:30:55

Me and my partner regularly discuss whether we're comfortable with it. If one of us says no we don't do it until they say they are again.
You don't need to leave or uproot your children - he does. Your children will get over it, you cannot continue to be assaulted because you're worried about upsetting them. Children are so resilient and adapt well. They're more likely to be affected by your low emotions whilst this carries on.

HebeMumsnet (MNHQ) Tue 04-Dec-18 17:31:03

Afternoon, everyone. OP - sorry to briefly hijack your thread. We hope you're ok.

We just thought since this thread had brought up the issue, it might be a good time to post a link to a page we created about rape myths, as part of our We Believe You campaign.

If anyone is interested in having a read there's a link above.

qwertyl Tue 04-Dec-18 17:32:05

Thank you also to all those in support - I know we're all different and I really do understand that - for those that say they enjoy it - great and all good, my DH and I have had some of the best sex I've ever had. When I've been awake and up for it..... that's the bit that makes me truly sad. If he'd do this to get kicks, what else would he do.... rant over.... time to go home and see him I suppose but dc will keep us busy until bedtime

picklemebaubles Tue 04-Dec-18 17:32:20

Just for a bit more clarification...hmm I don't think there is an acceptable 'other point of view' on OP's experience. Women who are suggesting there is, need to know it is vile and unacceptable to victim blame and minimise sexual assault.

Quick summary for the hard of thinking...

OP is upset about what happened.
He grabbed her belly knowing she doesn't like it, while she was asleep.
He stopped when she woke up.
He waited until she was asleep, did it again, and pushed his fingers into her.
He knew she'd have said no if he initiated sex.
She thinks he's done it before, as she's woken up wet.

Does any of that sound like consensual sex? Sleepy wake up sex? No? That's right, because it isn't, it's assault.
No murmurs of endearment, actions to turn her on, nothing. NOT CONSENSUAL.

Ok?

sparklesaremyfavourite Tue 04-Dec-18 17:33:03

My genuine sympathy and support go out to you. I'm sorry you have had to deal with this post on top of everything. But yes, you deserve respect and I am glad you are so firm on that understanding.

I wish all good things for you and your DC.

flowers

sparklesaremyfavourite Tue 04-Dec-18 17:36:00

@HebeMumsnet thank you.

Adora10 Tue 04-Dec-18 17:44:57

Wishing you strength OP, you know what happened, it was very clear actually in understanding you; I am baffled others couldn't understand what a horrible thing you have gone through

I can feel your pain and I wish you well; I can't even imagine how you broach this with him but obviously you will need to discuss it to ensure it never happens again, it's a horrible situation to find yourself in; keep strong, you sound a very capable and intelligent woman.

Sassandfaff1 Tue 04-Dec-18 17:48:29

shepherdspie.

If your perception is that this is not sexual assault, then yes you are.

Sexual assault has already been defined in this thread. Your 'perception' or your own relationship boundaries are irrelevant.

Sexual assault has a legal definition, which doesn't include;

Well my last partner didnt mind
We're married
It's normal
I'd like it

Do you understand what a definition is?
Do you realise that personal anecdotes mean fuck all in a legal sense?

I stand by my thick as mince statement.

Sassandfaff1 Tue 04-Dec-18 17:54:53

The argument being used on here right now, to justify a man violating his wife.

I'd be ashamed if I was you.

Sassandfaff1 Tue 04-Dec-18 17:56:15

angry

NottonightJosepheen Tue 04-Dec-18 17:58:14

The pile on of abuse towards Adora10 is very unedifying to read.

I hope qwertyl that you feel safe and confident to discuss this boundary violation with your husband. Bodily autonomy extends to feeling safe from any unwanted touch and being confident that your boundaries will be respected.

ReggieKrayDoYouKnowMyName Tue 04-Dec-18 17:58:21

Yikes. This is horrible OP. Definitely would be a problem for me. Sorry this happened to you.

JosCally44 Tue 04-Dec-18 18:00:37

I think that everybody has been sensitive to the Qwertyl's situation despite the differences in opinion. Even those who see it differently have been respectful to how she feels.

Adora10, your approach is heavy handed and aggressive. I think you're trying to help the OP which is what this should be about but you seem to want to point score against other posters which adds an unpleasant tone to the thread. It is not okay to call people thick if they disagree with you. Have you thought that maybe the other posters don't give a shit what you say either? It's not a competition. Shepherspie has made her point eloquently and politely and has said nothing wrong.

Interesting thread and I hope you are okay in the long run Qwertyl. As a previous poster said, I think you need to talk to him and get to the bottom of what he thought he was playing at. If he has kinks that he wants to explore, he needs to talk to you about them before just going for it and leaving you scared and confused. That's not consensual and it's not okay.

qwertyl Tue 04-Dec-18 18:00:41

Yes please don't turn on each other - I think everyone has tried to help by offering opinion. I'm tired and probably irrational so I sought advice. I know my own feelings but being able to discuss has hugely helped so thank you and thank you Mumsnet thanksthanks

Sassandfaff1 Tue 04-Dec-18 18:04:11

Adora There was nothing wrong with your approach.
Please ignore all who say otherwise.

See.....that's perception.

I perceive it as thus...other's may not.

Sexual assault has a 'definition'. It is not open to individual interpretation.

Hth.

Shepherdspieisminging Tue 04-Dec-18 18:13:34

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

JosCally44 Tue 04-Dec-18 18:13:42

Surely it's only assault if the other person feels they have been assaulted?

Other posters have said that they have experienced this act and enjoyed it. I would argue that assault is only that if it is intended to violate and interpreted as a violation by the individual.

Some women like having their hair pulled during sex. To others, that is assault. Therefore hair pulling cannot be generally defined as assault. It is subjective. It comes down to both parties and their experience of it.

If the OP feels assaulted, then that is her truth.

Sass you can't apply your truths to everyone else as may others perceptive it differently. A perpetrator is only 'thus' if it was his intention to violate. A victim is someone who feels violated.

Hth

Quartz2208 Tue 04-Dec-18 18:19:42

Oh OP I hope you are ok and figure out the best way to go with this as it sounds an awful situation

I hope those who offered their perceptions based on a misguided version of the truth now realise that this was assault and the OP has to live with that

The other important thing with boundaries though and it needs saying is that a sign of an abusive relationship is the erosion of boundaries (I have to say that this is not the case) but someone saying it is within their boundaries does not necessarily mean it isnt still assault

IToldYouIWasFreaky Tue 04-Dec-18 18:20:25

Some women like having their hair pulled during sex. To others, that is assault. Therefore hair pulling cannot be generally defined as assault. It is subjective. It comes down to both parties and their experience of it.

It's not in the least bit subjective. If you consent to hair pulling, then it's not assault. If you do not consent to hair pulling, it's assault.

Likewise, if you consent to being penetrated, not assualt. If you don't (or can't) consent, it's assault.

It's not about perception or intention it's about CONSENT. OP was not able to give it as she sleeping.

JosCally44 Tue 04-Dec-18 18:27:06

I agree with you on the consent bit because it has made the OP feel bad and therefore it can be perceived as assault but, if someone is kissing you and they gently bite your lip (without consent)...is that assault? Should they have asked for permission first? Sorry if I'm being pedantic but I think it is subjective. There are grey areas.

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