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DH touching me whilst asleep

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qwertyl Mon 03-Dec-18 22:45:45

Am downstairs in utter shock.... after an early night and offer of back rub from'd'h woke up to find him touching me.... I stopped him before he went further but he'd already put his fingers inside me I'm sure to check if I was asleep.... oh god I feel sick. I hate him right now envy

Drogosnextwife Mon 03-Dec-18 22:47:02

Are you sure he knew you were asleep?

chickenloverwoman Mon 03-Dec-18 22:47:32

Oh lovely, that's horrible . What do you want to happen next?

Sethis Mon 03-Dec-18 22:49:42

100% rape/sexual assault.

Kick him out of the fucking house.

If that's not possible, leave the house yourself. Crash with friends or family.

This would be a 100% instant deal breaker for a lot of people. Do not pass Go, do not collect £200. End of marriage. At the very least you need to demonstrate consequences to him, right now.

Honeybee79 Mon 03-Dec-18 22:51:02

That's horrible. In fact, it's sexual assault. Has he done it before? What is he saying about it now?

SoaringSwallow Mon 03-Dec-18 22:53:10

qwertyl your feelings are accurate to what he's done. Your instincts are correct. Do whatever you want, but don't let him talk you out of your instincts. He penetrated you without consent. Your reaction is appropriate to what he did.

thanksthanksthanks

shamalawa Mon 03-Dec-18 22:53:27

Sorry you're so shaken up by this.

Did he give you a back rub leading you to fall asleep?
Then you woke and he was touching you?
Did he know you were asleep do you think?

Mum2jenny Mon 03-Dec-18 22:53:41

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qwertyl Mon 03-Dec-18 22:58:13

I've no idea what to do.id half suspected in the past but he's always dismissed it but he definitely thought I was asleep.... makes me feel more ill to say this but I have a very self conscious belly roll after DC and he knows I don't like him touching it - he actually grabbed it first and then put two Fingers inside.... oh god sorry just sounds so horrible... I almost wish I'd let him go further to make the point but I was so furious. I'd been asleep about half hour/45 Mins and he's taken my book out my hands - romantic. I'm downstairs alone but one dc comes in for a cuddle most nights and don't want to alarm her if she can't find me.

shamalawa Mon 03-Dec-18 22:58:23

Back rubs would often lead to sex in our house and that's even if one of us was dozy but that's our relationship and our own boundaries non existent

How did he react when you got up

How are you now?

shamalawa Mon 03-Dec-18 22:59:11

Sorry cross posted there.

That sounds horrible OP

tablelegs Mon 03-Dec-18 23:00:01

That's awful. I'm so sorry.

qwertyl Mon 03-Dec-18 23:01:12

If it had been a back rub and then led to something I understand but not waiting until he thought I was asleep? Surely.... it was so clinical. I've been with him 15 years. I'm
Sure it's started happening the last year or so...

BewareOfDragons Mon 03-Dec-18 23:10:03

Eeewww.

You have been violated.

And he's already minimizing his behaviour as you know he's lied to you about it before ... he'ls going to do it again.

So you have to decide what you want to do now.

Would you tell your children to stay in a relationship where their partner violated them in this manner?

qwertyl Mon 03-Dec-18 23:23:53

No that's all I can think of.... the dc and what to do.... my DDs adore him sad

Bluerussian Mon 03-Dec-18 23:24:21

That's pretty horrible. When I saw the thread title I imagined him cuddling up or something like that, probably asleep himself. Husband and I have both done that but certainly touching genitals, never mind putting fingers inside.

It's a violation, please speak plainly to him about how you feel.

Zofloramummy Mon 03-Dec-18 23:27:29

He must know that you know what happened otherwise why would you be downstairs? That is a horrible thing for him to do and it was a sexual assault. No blurred lines at all. You were asleep and therefore unable to consent in any way. I’m so sorry.

Make yourself a cup of sweet tea. Your dd’s may well adore him but will you ever go to sleep again without a worry that this might happen? He isn’t safe to be around. The only person that is to blame here is him.

Rattinghat Mon 03-Dec-18 23:28:38

How much near asleep do you think he was? If he was pretty much nealy asleep himself and his hands started casually wandering, that's different than if he is wide awake and waits for you to be asleep before clinically having an explore.

Zofloramummy Mon 03-Dec-18 23:31:39

How many dozing men accidentally insert their fingers into their partners vaginas? The OP also said it was done in a clinical way.

qwertyl Tue 04-Dec-18 10:31:22

It wasn't accidental at all. The light was still on and he had a good old grope to check i was asleep. I've dropped my dcs at school and come to work with no idea what to do. I don't want to tell family or friends particularly and don't want to suddenly uproot dcs - to where I don't know - but I feel like I don't to be anywhere near him, let alone sleep in a bed next to him ☹️

Rattinghat Tue 04-Dec-18 10:42:38

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Adora10 Tue 04-Dec-18 10:48:29

I am so sorry this has happened to you OP and some of the replies are disgusting, you know yourself what has and is going on, and from what you write, he's been abusing you for sure; why any man would want to be sexual with a woman they think is sleeping is worrying and beyond my understanding; it's such a violation of trust and your own personal body space; not sure I could get past it tbh, in fact, I know I couldn't, there is no respect there.

ImNotKitten Tue 04-Dec-18 10:48:29

Please tell a close friend or family member if you feel able to. You need someone offline to support you ideally.

Rattinghat Tue 04-Dec-18 10:50:55

And if you do decide to break up, you do not need to tell friends and family any details whatsoever.

Shepherdspieisminging Tue 04-Dec-18 10:55:07

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Notcoolmum Tue 04-Dec-18 10:56:29

My ex did this on a regular basis. I would wake up to find he was having sex with me. I told him I didn’t like it but it carrried in happening. In the end I felt frightened to be in my own bed and he physically repulsed me.
I didn’t equate it with rape then. But I do now. Make it clear you do not want this to happen again and that it is sexual assault. If he does this to you again after that conversation then you know what sort of man he is. If you don’t already.

Sorry this has happened to you.

qwertyl Tue 04-Dec-18 10:56:34

Thank you all for support, my message was taken down overnight and it was a long sleepless night. I don't want to be rash but I don't think I should spell out to him, you shouldn't sexually touch me or anyone whilst they are asleep - it was very different to lazily waking up and hoping for sex in the morning! Very different and makes me feel like I don't know him at all - I will perhaps tell a close friend, I just don't want to have to leave my dc there without me because of his behaviour...thanks for the support MNers thanks

Rattinghat Tue 04-Dec-18 11:01:03

The grabbing of the tummy thing is weird and horrible. I am chubby and have experienced this twice from different men, it could probably be classed as assaults. Once by my friend's husband in their kitchen, out of the blue. Another time on a bus by a guy I barely knew. They both actually lunged and grabbed my tummy roll. I had the feeling both times that it was a power thing, like the guys knew I would probably be mortified. Also they are both known as guys who are rather shallow and like glamorous women. Weird weird weird.

Zulor Tue 04-Dec-18 11:01:11

I'm kind of with Shepherd on this one. Maybe he was hoping you'd wake up? I don't know. It's really hard to tell, as I wasn't the one experiencing it. But you were awake anyway? You said he had a good old grope to check you were asleep? Were you just pretending to be asleep? Why didn't you smack his hand away instantly when he started? I would have! Probably going to get flamed for asking that question as I'm sure you had your reasons.

Adora10 Tue 04-Dec-18 11:03:31

Even more shocked at folk minimising what you have gone through and clearly not reading the thread properly!!!!

Instead of imaging a scenario where you were not there, maybe listen to what the OP has told you all, idiots!

BobbinsBoo1 Tue 04-Dec-18 11:05:06

Was he fully awake himself?
I've woken up several times where dh had been touching me in his sleep. I think it's mostly been on night where we were going to have sex but for various reasons it didn't happen so he went to sleep thinking about sex and then didn't do it consciously. I have also done it to dh. I have no problem with it in my relationship but we all have very different boundaries and if this is a no go for you then it shouldn't happen.

If you believe he is waiting for you to go to sleep and is touching you internationally while you're not aware of it and you think it has happened in the past and he's denied it I think there is a very serious problem. I would not be ok with that in my relationship despite being completely comfortable with my dh touching me in my sleep to wake me for sex. Touching you and doing sexual acts to you when you don't wake or aren't aware is abuse and makes me feel sick and disgusted on your behalf. I hope you're ok op. I think you and your dh need to have a very serious conversation about what he does when you are sleeping because if it's how it seems then he has a problem.

Nesssie Tue 04-Dec-18 11:05:27

I actually think you do need to '*spell out to him, you shouldn't sexually touch me or anyone whilst they are asleep*'. As this post has shown, different couples have different boundaries. You don't think it is acceptable - absolutely your right to think that, but I do think you need to tell him. Then if he does it again, its rape.

ScattyPenny Tue 04-Dec-18 11:06:53

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BobbinsBoo1 Tue 04-Dec-18 11:07:03

That should say intentionally not internationally

Rattinghat Tue 04-Dec-18 11:08:05

I am not minimising anything, I am just saying don't underestimate how dumb and clueless men are, and their weird way of looking at the world. He may have no idea he has done something very wrong.

MissLadyM Tue 04-Dec-18 11:09:07

This is really distressing. It's a vile thing to do and he knows it's wrong. I'd be worried why he's doing it and where it will end. A friend of mine found loads of explicit pictures on her boyfriend's phone that had taken of her when she was asleep. Grotesque and in my view, a crime.

RedDeadRoach Tue 04-Dec-18 11:11:08

Why didn't you smack his hand away instantly when he started?

Fuck off with your victim blaming.

Unfortunately you seem to have a few women with few boundaries posting on your thread op.

Any decent man would not need it to be spelt out the him that he shouldn't touch someone sexually while they're asleep. Unfortunately on these kind of threads they are usually a few women that pop up and say that it's not that bad really. Maybe trying to justify to themselves that they partners also do similar but they don't want to leave.

It IS that bad. It's still sexual assault even if she hasn't told him not to do it. She hasn't given her consent. It's sexual assault. She can't consent if she's asleep.

qwertyl Tue 04-Dec-18 11:11:15

I dont mind the questions at all it's why I came In here as I don't know if I'm over reacting.

I have, on a couple of occasions woken about an hour after being in bed to find him 'moving me' he's said it's because I was snoring (accept that, I am a heavier sleeper than him and I fall asleep earlier than him a lot) I can't honestly tell you when or why but about 8-12 months ago I half made a joke about being wet down below and there have been a couple of occasions where I've woken to him pulling me but around the waist - he has a high sex drive.... I just had a gut feeling but really thought he wouldn't do that (I wouldn't care if he went off to relieve himself but I think touching someone else is really over steeping his needs...) maybe I'm wrong, that's why I feel quite confused and upset this morning. As I mentioned, I'd fallen asleep and he went to touch my tummy but that woke me up and I rolled over - I was then dozing for 30 or so minutes but perhaps my previous paranoia woke me when he really grabbed me again - it's the stomach touching which he knows if I was fully awake (or partially) I would have swatted him away followed quickly by putting his fingers in me. I'm almost sure he would have gone further - also hugely concerned I may have slept heavily enough for him to do it - probably after a few wines. Sorry to ramble, hope that explains in more context...

RedDeadRoach Tue 04-Dec-18 11:12:22

If it were me, and I wasn'[t in the mood, I'd just gently push my partner away and tell him I was too tired and promise him a cuddle the next morning.

She was asleep. He put his fingers inside her without consent. Are you being deliberately obtuse?

Nesssie Tue 04-Dec-18 11:12:38

Is waking up my partner with a blow job now unacceptable? Only if hes told me it's unacceptable.

ScattyPenny Tue 04-Dec-18 11:12:49

Reddead, no. I'm not trying to justify anything. Sorry to be graphic but if most men woke up to their partners giving them a blow job they would be ecstatic. Is that rape????

It's about trust.

ScattyPenny Tue 04-Dec-18 11:13:15

Haha sorry Nessie....cross posted re blowjobs!!

RedDeadRoach Tue 04-Dec-18 11:14:04

Op, you're not overreacting. It sounds like this has been going on for a while. I think you need to leave him. You can ask the people you love for help without telling them exactly why. But let me just tell you that you have nothing to be ashamed of. He's done this to you, it's his shame not yours.

ScattyPenny Tue 04-Dec-18 11:15:00

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Mimipee Tue 04-Dec-18 11:15:03

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RedDeadRoach Tue 04-Dec-18 11:15:46

If you have previously had a conversation with your partner and they have said that they are happy for you to wake them up with a blowjob then no, it's not sexual assault. Obviously. It's not fucking rocket science. But what part of this post do you not understand that she has not given her consent for him to touch her while she's asleep?

Rattinghat Tue 04-Dec-18 11:15:49

Sorry to be crude but I like being woken up by a (steady) boyfriend starting to have sex with me from behind. I don't need to give consent specifically, rather if I wasn't in the mood I would push him away and expect him not to persist. It's the furtiveness of this incident that gives me the creeps.

ScattyPenny Tue 04-Dec-18 11:18:18

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Fashionista101 Tue 04-Dec-18 11:18:33

@Nesssie @ScattyPenny I was just about to ask this?

RedDeadRoach Tue 04-Dec-18 11:18:38

I'm not overreacting actually. Op feels like she's been violated. And she has. Why do you want to try and convince her she hasn't? It is real sexual assault by the way. Do you think it's not because she's in a relationship with him? Definition:

"Sexual assault is an act in which a person intentionally sexually touches another person without that person's consent."

RoseCumbrae Tue 04-Dec-18 11:19:09

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ScattyPenny Tue 04-Dec-18 11:19:56

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RedDeadRoach Tue 04-Dec-18 11:20:58

I'm not interested in arguing with idiots on the op's thread. Op you're not overreacting. You don't have to put up with this no matter how many cool girls try and tell you it's ok.

AccidentallyRunToWindsor Tue 04-Dec-18 11:21:38

To the posters saying they this would be their DH starting to initiate sex, is fingering really the first thing they go for? A cuddle and a prod in the back or even a bit of boob fondling I get but from zero to fingers in? Perhaps I'm sheltered!

OP, I can only imagine what a shock this was for you, allowed yourself to feel whatever you want to feel. Being married does not allow you the right to use another's body for your own gains.

ScattyPenny Tue 04-Dec-18 11:22:44

RedDead, I'm not an idiot. It's just different perspectives. Isn't that what Mumsnet is for?

The op is probably (I would imagine) looking for people's opinions on how they would feel.

It's not always black and white.

sparklesaremyfavourite Tue 04-Dec-18 11:24:14

I am shocked how many women think this is okay! This man sexually penetrated an unconscious woman. He crudely grabbed at her body to check if she was awake. This is not normal - it is sexual abuse!

qwertyl I fully support you in whatever you do about this and I applaud your strength of conviction that this is truly wrong. flowersflowersflowers

Nesssie Tue 04-Dec-18 11:25:10

AccidentallyRunToWindsor - Yes I would say that is fine. PIV straight away, without warming up or any warning is not (unless previously agreed).

Rattinghat Tue 04-Dec-18 11:25:23

MissLadyM has an important point. You might want to check his phone.

InglouriousBasterd Tue 04-Dec-18 11:27:28

What’s with the chorus of ‘he’s your husband?’ What, so her body is now under his ownership? She doesn’t get to be woken before her owner has sex with her and should just accept it?

But it’s ok as long as it’s not a stranger.

Aaaahfuck Tue 04-Dec-18 11:27:43

@Shepherdspieisminging whether it would bother you is irrelevant it is clearly bothering op very much. I think most if us would say sleepy sex and asleep sex are very different things.

Shepherdspieisminging Tue 04-Dec-18 11:28:02

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Quartz2208 Tue 04-Dec-18 11:28:28

ScattyPenny you are right it is about trust. Its about the OP trusting that her husband, knowing she doesnt like her stomach being touched would not do so or indeed have sex with her when she did not want to

And yes he is her husband the one man she should be able to trust not to override her wishes and boundaries

And I am tired of these threads going into the argument that it is fine for someone to touch and have sex when they are asleep - it isnt. Not when they are ASLEEP and in a state where they cannot consent. It is a violation of both her body and her trust

So sorry OP

Rattinghat Tue 04-Dec-18 11:28:41

Inglourious I don't think anyone means that. They are just saying in different relationships there are different boundaries.

EKGEMS Tue 04-Dec-18 11:29:00

No,no,no! Sexual acts on a person who is asleep is sexual acts without consent of the victim-it is assault-if he's done it before OP then you have been a victim of him before. It doesn't matter if you are in a relationship with him! It is no different than a stranger doing the same to you! I can't imagine staying with a man who has done this once let alone multiple times! You are obviously in shock and angry-I think you need to speak to a sexual assault counselor about what happened to you. I fear for you if you sweep this under the rug OP he may carry on and do even worse in the future.

cstaff Tue 04-Dec-18 11:29:04

www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/crime/man-rape-wife-ten-years-sleep-sexual-assault-jailed-prison-newcastle-a7874806.html

www.irishtimes.com/news/crime-and-law/courts/circuit-court/no-jail-term-for-man-25-who-raped-girlfriend-while-she-slept-1.2283327

There was a man convicted of raping his girlfriend while she slept completely unbeknownst to her. Sounds very similar OP.

ScattyPenny Tue 04-Dec-18 11:30:38

op, I hope the opinions of others are not upsetting to you.

I hope you see it for what it is, people telling you how they would interpret the act within the boundaries of their own relationships. It's a very personal and subjective issue.

I'm sorry you're upset and there is nothing wrong with how you feel.

Shepherdspieisminging Tue 04-Dec-18 11:31:08

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

sparklepops123 Tue 04-Dec-18 11:31:41

How has he acted with you since last night? I think you need to tell him he needs to leave as you're not comfortable around him

qwertyl Tue 04-Dec-18 11:33:45

Honestly didn't mean for it to turn into a row and I do understand - we've had sleepy sex before, either just before falling asleep or waking up... this was just different, the difference being it seemed he wanted me to be asleep... because he knows I was knackered and not feeling great so probably knew it would be a no - I'm not a prude and we have pretty regular sex It just felt really wrong. I will speak to him, my dcs were there this morning and I don't want them in the middle of an argument - maybe a day at my desk will help reflect. And sorry if minimising rape/sexual assault, not my intention at all (nor my assertion) thanksthanks

bethy15 Tue 04-Dec-18 11:35:26

I am not minimising anything, I am just saying don't underestimate how dumb and clueless men are, and their weird way of looking at the world. He may have no idea he has done something very wrong.

And this attitude and believing men are not violating us, but are just dense and need no spelling out to them has led to a world where women are abused so much, and at times without them realising they are being violated. It's become the social norm to be violated as a woman and we're supposed to accept it, and then there's the victim blaming, saying she should have tapped his hand away.

Dear lord.

MemoryOfSleep Tue 04-Dec-18 11:35:26

You wouldn't need to leave your dc, keep them with you at all times. Don't leave them with him in the house and move out, whatever you do. Have you got a spare room he can sleep in while you figure this out? I would definitely have a word and have him sleeping on the sofa for a while if not. If dc ask say your snoring keeps him awake so he is sleeping there for now.

Quartz2208 Tue 04-Dec-18 11:35:58

Legally actually its straightforward and as I have said before it is assault/rape because there is no consent you cannot assume consent. That is the starting point. Relationships should build up from that point and give permission to touch from that on and cues from that point on. If nothing has been agreed or said that it is assault.

idk maybe its my age but it does sadden me

MsJuniper Tue 04-Dec-18 11:37:53

it seemed he wanted me to be asleep...

That is the key here and why it is different from all these scenarios people are coming up with to justify/minimise the behaviour. Is it different to waking your partner up with a blow job? Yes, because you are waking him up - hoping he will participate in some mutual enjoyment, not trying to get what you want from someone else's body without their knowledge.

NottonightJosepheen Tue 04-Dec-18 11:39:25

OP felt violated, I believe (correct me if I am wrong) because it seemed like a deliberately violating thing to do.

She said that she feels self conscious about her belly when she is conscious (that makes the opposite 'unconscious' so boundary invasive). So, his touching of her belly seems removed from romantic reciprocal touch, seems clinical and objectifying as he knew she objected to it usually.And then he penetrated her with his finger. Whilst she was asleep or half asleep. It sounds horrible.

I know people say consent doesn't have to be verbalised. But, I have said to my OH, 'I like being woken up to kisses and caresses but don't ever penetrate my body with your penis or fingers when I am not completely awake'.

It is violating to me.

Nesssie Tue 04-Dec-18 11:40:28

qwertyl I think it all comes down to the individual relationship.

because he knows I was knackered and not feeling great so probably knew it would be a no is completely different scenario to an early night with offer of a back rub

If you don't feel comfortable around him now, then it is not unreasonable to leave him. You don't need any reason to leave your partner. We are just pointing out that in our relationship that situation would be ok, to give you some perspective.

bethy15 Tue 04-Dec-18 11:40:43

Anyway, OP, the other behaviour doesn't sound good either. The fact you've woken up wet down there and other times him moving your body like that, you had these suspicions anyway, then wake up to this this morning.

You know what feels right and wrong in your marriage, and the fact you've even felt like this before means you should be listening to your instincts here. Something is amiss.

Are you sleeping heavier then usual at all?

Kittykat93 Tue 04-Dec-18 11:40:54

I also agree with @Shepherdspieisminging

I think it can also be dangerous everyone shouting rape at things like this. My dh has done this before and I wouldn't think for a second that I'd been sexually assaulted, he was just in the mood and trying to wake me up whilst initiating sex. Does it work? Normally no and I just swat his hand away and that's that!

However, op you really need to sit down and talk about this with your dh. Tell him you feel upset and violated and why. Tell him you do not want to be touched when you're asleep and he needs to fully respect that. Set whatever boundaries are appropriate to you. thanks

RedDeadRoach Tue 04-Dec-18 11:43:50

And sorry if minimising rape/sexual assault, not my intention at all (nor my assertion)

You haven't. I havent. Unfortunately even in 2018 Some people think that rape or sexual assault is only done by strangers in dark alleyways. They don't think other types of assault are that bad. They say stuff like, "why didn't you just slap his hand away", or "I wouldn't mind if my partner did that to me." I guess those women are lucky, because they have never had a partner who would violate them while they were asleep without consent.

Other peoples kinks have nothing to do with your situation. Every relationship is different. These women just don't realise that it's entirely possible to sexual assault someone that you're in a relationship with. Look how recently the law against men raping their wives came in.

Your relationship is the only one that matters here. You have not given him consent to touch you sexually while you're asleep. It doesn't matter if other people do give their partners consent to do that. You haven't.

Rattinghat Tue 04-Dec-18 11:52:01

bethy no way am I victim blaming, I am just saying some people need to be explicitly taught right from wrong. Sadly some men don't learn everything they need to know as a young person, and a lot of them are shockingly ignorant. I just used the example above that my boyfriend didn't wash his hands before fingering me, I couldn't believe he was so stupid, but he was. I had to tell him he was making me ill, about 3 times before it sank into his dense skull. And this was a very intelligent guy.

Quartz2208 Tue 04-Dec-18 11:53:21

Agree with RedDeadRoach you havent minimised it at all. You think he knew it would be a No so waited until you were asleep - that alone I think tells you that you are have not minimised it at all and indeed means that everyone elses personal experiences are irrelevant. He knew consent would not be there and he tested whether you were asleep

And I think there should always be a clear distinction between initiating when asleep, starting the process and continuing when its clear that either (a) the person has said no or (b) the person is fast asleep.

And it may just be me and my age but having sex with an asleep person completely goes against the idea that sex should be a mutual act of pleasure. It degrades the process to just one persons enjoyment

So with the blow job - starting the process is fine - if he was asleep at the end so to speak yes that is assault you have forced a physical reaction without consent or the person being asleep.

It took years for the law against men raping their wives to come in. It doesnt seem to be taking even half as long for it to begin to be eradicated

Mishappening Tue 04-Dec-18 11:55:57

How could he have been checking if you were asleep? - his chosen act of checking would simply wake you up - as indeed it did. What does he have to say?

ScattyPenny Tue 04-Dec-18 11:56:12

Of course you can be sexually assaulted by your partner. Nobody is suggesting otherwise RedDead!

What's normal/acceptable in one relationship may not be in another. That's obvious.

Again, sorry to be graphic but if I put my hand down my partner's pants when he was sleeping, he would either be in a grump for waking him up or, be responsive. His body, his choice.

Unless you're a very heavy sleeper, you're going to be roused by someone touching you (although not necessarily aroused). Surely at this point it's a choice to tell them to get off. If they don't, then yes, it's force and therefore assault.

The distinction seems obvious to me, but then I understand everyone's opinion is different.

If my husband did it to me, I would not be upset. I would simply say no. But, I trust him and I don't think he would ever violate me, awake, asleep or in a coma.

Sunisshining5346 Tue 04-Dec-18 11:58:58

This thread is derailing now.. OP you know yourself what is normal and not normal for your relationship.

The people saying this is normal are wrong!!!!

This has freaked you out, so now everytime he comes near you, you will feel grossed out and it will repulse you.

I have been in bed with DH before and I have felt him start to hug me etc..I have pretended to be asleep, when he has felt me not move a muscle, he rolls over and goes to sleep! If I do move and put a hand on him etc, he knows that I want it also..

If I did not move, and he carried on..that would be it. I would feel the same as you. It's gross!

You need to ask him straight out. What the hell happened last night.

But I think now it's freaked you out, any sexual encounters from now on, will make you feel sick. You are going to look at him completely different now.

RedDeadRoach Tue 04-Dec-18 12:01:37

I'm not engaging with victim blaming rape apologists.

ScattyPenny Tue 04-Dec-18 12:03:50

'victim blaming rape apologists'.

Yeah, ok RedDead.

Sunisshining5346 Tue 04-Dec-18 12:05:31

RedDeadRoach..you are ignoring the OPs feeling though? It might be the norm in your relationship, but obviously in her relationship it isn't.. otherwise she wouldn't of posted!

She is freaked out! This is not normal for her relationship.. she didn't like it. He has crossed a line.

Quartz2208 Tue 04-Dec-18 12:07:34

scattypenny Surely at this point it's a choice to tell them to get off. If they don't, then yes, it's force and therefore assault.

Really - that is victim blaming 101. Not thinking through that shock/disbelief/fear at that point renders you unable to do anything

And as you say in the final point you trust your husband not to violate you because he never has. You have no idea how you would react it he decide to violate that trust

ScattyPenny Tue 04-Dec-18 12:08:13

But everbody's different!!!

If the OP feels it's wrong, then of course it's wrong.

It's not the act that matters, it's how it made her feel. We know that.

Perspective.

bethy15 Tue 04-Dec-18 12:09:23

My dh has done this before and I wouldn't think for a second that I'd been sexually assaulted, he was just in the mood and trying to wake me up whilst initiating sex. Does it work? Normally no and I just swat his hand away and that's that!

Just because you accept your boundaries being invaded does not mean every other woman should. Read how the OP sounded, she was in shock, she was violated and believes she has been before.

Just because your partner is in the mood doesn't give him permission to do what he wants with your body.

Please, these responses are highly irresponsible, to minimise what the OP feels because you think it's OK if a man does this to your body is not helpful. Read the OP, she was in shock, she should listen to her gut reaction to this.

Adora10 Tue 04-Dec-18 12:10:02

Jesus, this has gotten a whole lot worse, are any of you actually listening to the OP, it was pre meditated, no he was not asleep, he carefully moved her book out the way, he made sure she was asleep, what the fuck is acceptable about that, husband or not, you are all disgusting if you think that's ok to do to another human who is clearly NOT giving consent.

I get some folk like being touched in their sleep, we all don't though and clearly the OP doesn't either, she's fucken entitled to have that opinion, why the hell do you think she came on here, for you lot to dum down her concerns that her husband is getting off on having sex with her when she has no fucken idea it's happening, my God, if I was you OP, I'd get this taken down, you really need to speak to him, I am shuddering at your updates, it's so brutally awful what he is doing to you.

ScattyPenny Tue 04-Dec-18 12:10:13

Okay. Last post (I promise), I almost feel like I'm goading but I am honestly not.

I have, in fact, put my hands down my sleeping partner's pants in the past (God I hope this stays anonymous!!)

Am I a rapist? A sexual predator that should be banged up to protect mankind?

Seriously.

NottonightJosepheen Tue 04-Dec-18 12:12:03

RedDeadRoach

I'm not engaging with victim blaming rape apologists.

I hope my post saying that I gave express verbal non-consent has not been misinterpreted as I believe a man in a relationship has an implied consent if a woman hasn't given a prior firm 'no'.

I don't believe anyone should assume the sexual consent of a sleeping person. It is abhorrent to me. I believe it is on the same spectrum as rape and contributes to a rape apology culture.

RedDeadRoach Tue 04-Dec-18 12:14:50

@qwertyl op I hope you don't mind ive sent you a pm.

ScattyPenny Tue 04-Dec-18 12:15:03

Okay (one more post).

I'll go and turn myself in. I wonder what the police will say.

Good luck op. I hope this is reconciled one way or the other and that you feel better in the long term whatever you choose to do. Nobody should be made to feel violated and he needs to know you feel that way.

Interesting to hear the views of others, no matter what they think of mine. I hate to offend and hope I haven't here.

qwertyl Tue 04-Dec-18 12:15:35

I have taken on board everything said, it is helpful to get everyone's perspective either way. I think the main concern for me as a couple of posters have mentioned is that he almost wanted me to be asleep to get his kicks - that concerns me. I've (along time ago) woken him in the morning or maybe during the night 10+ years ago and he was delighted, big difference because if he hadn't woken up and expressed delight I wouldn't have carried on.... I honestly am just shocked he'd do it - I know that may be over reacting and that's why I thought a day in work was sensible. None of what he did was for my pleasure or participation - why would he want to have sex with someone who is asleep...? That concerns me - it really has made me look at him differently... thanks to everyone's time and responses though, it's hardly a topic I'd like to discuss with anyone in RL...

Mitzimaybe Tue 04-Dec-18 12:16:08

id half suspected in the past but he's always dismissed it

So you asked him about it and he lied? At the time you couldn't prove he was lying but now you know for sure. The fact that he denied it means he knows it's something you don't want; he knows he doesn't have consent.

he knows I don't like him touching it - he actually grabbed it first

Again, he knows he doesn't have consent and has deliberately done something he knows you hate.

I don't know if I'm over reacting

You are not over reacting. Very far from it.

I don't understand the PP saying you're married, it's normal. It may be normal for some couples but the OP has made it clear to him that she doesn't like it and doesn't want it, and he has denied doing it in the past. It's not a grey area in the least. There isn't implied consent. There is very clear refusal of consent. Hence, it is sexual assault, no question about it.

OP why would you leave your children with him? HE needs to leave, not you. Tell him he needs to stay elsewhere for a while to give you space and time to think. You should also get this on record somewhere (police, or GP if you think police would be OTT,) in case it escalates. Get it on record now. Please do confide in someone in real life; I understand it is difficult.

Otherwise you will never feel safe in your own home and your own bed. You can't live like that.

NottonightJosepheen Tue 04-Dec-18 12:16:39

ScattyPenny

I personally believe my boundary is the penetration of somebody's body. To me, there is a line between caressing someone and putting a penis or finger in their vagina or other whilst they are asleep.

sparklesaremyfavourite Tue 04-Dec-18 12:17:45

OP didn't ask for opinions, she was shocked and needed to vent.

Nobody's "screaming" or "shouting" rape - this is where society's idea that women are hysterical is coming in... Another reason why it's so important to understand that being asleep and not wanting sexual contact, are completely valid reasons for a partner to seek consent and respect it if it's not given.

It is not exceptional to be unappreciative about being touched whilst asleep. If some of you don't mind being on the receiving end of it, it does not make it okay for someone to do it.

What OP described was not a romantic kiss on the neck, or a gentle caress across the skin, or a whisper of "I want to make love to you"...

But even if he did do those things, the fact that she didn't consent still matters. Her consent matters. Not his intentions.

Nobody needs to sexually touch anybody to register the interest; there are many small signals beforehand that make it clear.

This guy was not doing that. He checked she was sleeping and took advantage of her.

It is no less sexual assault than an attack by a stranger. It may not be accompanied by violence or threats, but it's a crime all the same.

OP you have done nothing wrong. You have not belittled anyone else's violent experiences, you only spoke of your own feelings which you have a right to do.

I'm sorry this post has turned into a debate and I will no longer argue with others. You are the only person on this post whose opinion matters.

flowersflowersflowers

Ragaroo Tue 04-Dec-18 12:17:49

If you touch you're partner whilst sleeping, imo that is assault. Unless you have had very clear conversations beforehand about what is acceptable.

If I wanted to wake my DH with a blowjob I'd at least start by kissing him and getting some sort of "reaction" that makes it clear he's alert, receptive and up for it. No way would it be straight into bj, especially because lots of men wake with erections and how would you know if it was you or just their body giving them that erection? It's just weird if you haven't spoken about it beforehand. And that's the problem OP has... She hasn't set boundaries verbally yet, but he's crossing a line that most self respecting women have in place. And I think the police would agree with me.

RedDeadRoach Tue 04-Dec-18 12:17:55

@NottonightJosepheen

Nah you were clear ... consent good, no consent bad!

I would be worried too op. He wanted you to be asleep. He didn't want you to consent. That is what he's getting off on.

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