Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide, which can point you to expert advice and support.
Life after a Narcassist - advice thread(249 Posts)
So a few people have asked me to start a thread where questions can be asked about the behaviour of people who suffer from Narcassitic Personality Disorder.
Dealing with sufferers of NPD is often challenging, hurtful but frequently it is confusing. Sometimes it appears as if none of their behaviours make any sense. I thin k The issue is that the survivors see NPD behaviours as illogical but my own experiences with them tend to suggest that once you can enter into their mindset it makes perfect sense.
I'm not an expert but I do converse with several high functioning sufferers of NPD. I have also been abused.
So am happy to answer any questions but also, I think it would be really good if other people who have experience jump on too.
The idea hopefully is to create a resource that others can access.
I apologise. It perhaps came out worse than I wanted it to. I had read your posts and hearing what happened explains a lot. I guess I was sort of hoping on your behalf she didn’t have npd.
Anyway I am sorry. It must be an awful thing for you to go through and no I don’t have npd. I have a father with it and an exdh with it. and their lives growing up were pretty shocking, which is probably always why I forgave them and still do.
Anyway that serves me right for making a presumption (not on your parenting btw)
Holdingon - thank you. I accept your apology, and my heart truly goes out to you for having grown up with a parent who has NPD. You probably know better than most precisely why I am so terrified for my daughter's potential offspring - because as much as I would love to be a grandmother... I am genuinely frightened at the potential damage which she will do to them. I'm 20 years older than she is, and she left me for dead. What might she do to a defenceless baby/toddler/small child - who will love her, because she's their mother?!
And I would also like to apologise. I think you just hit a nerve, after a very long weekend (and it's still only Saturday) of my daughter ruling the roost from her bed. I read your post and yes; I admit, I did take it a little more personally than I might usually have done... so for that, I truly apologise to you.
I would love a magic wand to be waved and for my daughter not to have NPD. But unlike many who armchair diagnose... hers came from a clinically trained psychologist. I don't know what triggered it (although she claims to have been sexually abused... given her history, I don't actually know how valid that is, or if she knows my mother and I've always wondered if something went on). I will, in all likelihood never know. And every day, I have to watch her confusion and misery as to why she's essentially not accepted by society. So yeah; your post hit a nerve.
I think I probably deserved it!
If you’re dd has a child I think you’ll be a wonderful grandmother.
And hopefully as she has been officially diagnosed, as she gets older she might be able to have that diagnoses to help her.
Sorry it sounds like such an awful situation for you, you sound like a very strong caring lady
Oh hey you too! I was about to gently safe in but before I had chance, you guys resolved it. You both rock!
@Contrary....What an awful awful experience. You poor love. I cannot imagine what it must be like for you. X unmumsnetty [hugs]
Holdingon - in all reality, because she's been diagnosed with NPD, if she has a child... it may be taken away from her at birth by social services. Unless she waits a few years and policy changes in our area. And I'm torn between being devastated for my daughter (and, selfishly, for myself because I can't wait to be a grandmother), and relieved because then that hypothetical baby has a chance of being raised by people who would love it more than they love themselves. It's difficult. I am genuinely frightened of her getting pregnant (and I do suspect that she's trying at the moment, in order to stop her boyfriend from leaving for the other end of the country). When she brought the puppy into the house, and I hit the roof, she looked me dead in the eye and told me that it was either the puppy - or a baby. That she would have one - or the other. A puppy is easier, and I hoped might teach her how to be responsible/love something other than herself... but, as I've said, that didn't work out. And whilst I don't mind raising a puppy from 8 weeks old, I'd rather not dive back into baby raising unless I absolutely have no other choice. I probably will end up doing precisely that, though. Give my daughter another reason to blame me for everything, and paint herself as the poor hard-done by victim...
Renarde - Thank you, too. It's not easy. I didn't know anything about NPD, really, until my daughter was diagnosed, so I had to hit the ground running, so to speak. I researched, I spoke to people who knew precisely what was going on, I even spoke to her psychologist (although she doesn't know that) about how best to help her... I love my daughter, even though she's done some shocking things to people - not only to me and her little brother. Reading the 'cease and desist' letter and realising what she'd done as she stood there and bragged about it (she still believes herself to have been in the right) and knowing that she's never going to change, which means she's never going to have a solid circle of friends who've known her forever, any romantic relationships she has won't last (unless she gets involved with a fellow NPD sufferer, which I suspect is very possible), and that any children she has, then she'll inadvertantly make their lives miserable, too...?! It's not exactly a picnic. But it is, what it is. She didn't ask to be like this, after all. She just... is like this. And she will always be my daughter, and I will always love her. I just don't like her very much, purely because of the damage and harm she has done to my family - to my son and to my parents. Life isn't meant to be simple, though, is it? And we, as neuro-typical adults, just have to get on with it, the best that we can...
to you both, with my gratitude for actually being so understanding.
What can you do if someone acknowledges they are a narcissist or have narcissistic behaviour? What type of narcissist is this? He has been physical with me before (choking me, hitting me in the head then calling it a joke, he had me in a headlock infront of my friend and I believe he would have beat me if he wouldn’t have been seen.)
Although I have read a lot on narcissistic behaviour I feel as though if he recognises it, it can be helped right? Professionally?
@ hopeful run for the hills and don’t look back, you can’t change them, go and find someone who loves you and not himself
Hopeful, you call them the worst kind of human being - and, as Gin said; you run for the hills, don't look back, choose someone who is capable of loving you, for you, instead of themselves.
There is NO treatment, medically, for NPD. My daughter is on anti-psychotics, because she is prone to psychotic breaks. That has nothing to do with her NPD. Having spoken to her psychologist, I know that if someone is diagnosed with a personality disorder, unless they have other underlying mental health issues? They will not treat it. Because they cannot treat it. There is no treatment, there is no cure, they will never change.
You are with a man who will hurt you for his own fleeting sense of self-worth/pleasure. You are with a man who will seriously hurt you... and then, if he actually is NPD, will blame you for it even as he's denying that he hurt you.
Leave him. Because you can do that. And you are worth so much more than he will ever be capable of giving you. Please believe me on that.
@contrary13 - ￼￼￼ you are so brave. I can't begin to imagine what daily hell you love through. Hugs.
@Hopeful2102 - you can leave. And you must. There's obviously a huge difference between being a parent and being the partner of someone who shows narcissistic tendencies / suffers from NPD.
I believe @Renarde1975 has provided some truly insightful information by supplying H G Tudor as someone to read / learn from about narcissists. I've just touched on Your Fault. Until you take back control (as the partner of someone with narc tendencies) you will question yourself every step of the way because I'd learned behaviour. How they have made you believe you should feel / respond. It's far safer for you to get as far away from this person as you can.
And for my two pennyworth, I think one of the most awful realisations about the narc/NPD types is that there is no cure - and that for the huge majority of them, they think the problem is the rest of the world and not them. They have no self-awareness in that direction at all.
I agree but from my experience having some acknowledgment actually made them 100 × worse. Having therapy and trying to "connect" was the total downfall of that person. They now think they are just misunderstood so doesn't even try, this has made they morw superior.
Not helped that they live with a flipping psychiatrist!!! Mind you she's as disconnected and frankly batty as him. Watch out for "the enabler" validated their shitty behaviour.
Hi @Renarde1975 it's me, sun!
That will mean nothing to anyone else, but when I have time and it's all concluded I'll post up my story of how Renarde and a couple of Tudor books have helped me (hopefully) get rid of a weapons grade workplace narc.
Also realised xh is a narc. But quite an amiable one. I haven't read enough to categorise him yet. Super high achiever. Unbelievably selfish. Uses power to emotionally manipulate women. Distorted sense of reality and entitlement. No abuse or anything overtly evil..
Wow - so many of us be suffered at the hands of people with NPD. Really refreshing to see that many of you have come out of it the other side happy and healthy.
I’ve recently had a baby with a man who suffers with Anti-social personality disorder (undiagnosed sociopath) and he’s behaved wretchedly. There has been much push/pull behaviour in the last few weeks and now that maintenance has to be resolved he’s asked me if I’d like to take him back, he hasn’t even met his baby! I’ve been strong and told him absolutely not. The key is not to get sucked in. Anger is my ally.
Reading these gives me hope I’ll be feelin stronger soon. I have days where I cannot believe what I put up with and I feel like a fool, other days I’m sobbing as I miss him so much and I have to lock my phone away. After I feel foolish again as what am I missing? A bastard who treated me as an afterthought in all situations. I need to focus on letting go.
There is even a part of me that is jealous the he’s not even tried hoovering. It is like I have died to him. That drives me mad too... now I’m not even an afterthought.
I guess I just have to ride the emotional rollercoaster as I know it will get better
Worried going do something positive with your life, new hobby, maybe volunteer for a worthy course. Everything the narc does is poison and negative, you need to do the opposite to counter act it. Good luck I wish all the best, there is such a better life out there for you without him
This thread is so interesting and informative. So sorry for those suffering ongoing abuse. OP I had a light bulb moment when you said they have no concept or self awareness that what they do is wrong. Not sure if my ex was a full blown narc, but certainly ticks a few boxes. He is never, ever wrong. I have been hit because I would not agree that black was white. He controlled finances. He love bombed me and wanted a baby very early on(I didn't as I was studying) if I was ill or feeling down (rarely as I'm luckily mostly very healthy) he did not want to know. I wasted years trying to understand and help him and he still blames everyone else when anything goes wrong.
@ worried also think yourself lucky you didn’t have children with him, that is life sentence. You can have a clean break and never see him again
Has anyone actually had a nervous break down due to a N twisting and turning and confusing you to the point that you carnt function? This happened to me a while a go when they said they didn't soley want to be with me. Iv never really got over it, it litually nearly killwd me as i was left feeling suicidal. Im 100% not in that place anymore but its still confusing
I ended my relationship with an N in April, we had been together for 3 years and had been due to get married. Like many others the beginning of the relationship was intense, exciting and fast. Too fast.
Then after he got established the behaviours began. He was very critical, never wrong, huge ego, always wanted the best, financially abusive. And he has an explosive temper. He used to look at me with such hate in his eyes I thought he would hit me. He could also play the victim and cry on demand it seemed! Everything always ended up being my fault. He was desperate for us to have a child but thankfully that wasn’t something I wanted and I had a coil so he couldn’t do anything about it but he did pressure me.
My mental health suffered and I ended up on the top dose of citalopram and drinking heavily. He was lazy and messy and slept for hours. I hated coming home not being able to predict what mood he would be in.
In the end I threw him out. It was carefully planned and I had my DF with me. After that started the stalking and bombarding with messages. I blocked him on everything and the police had a word with him. A few weeks ago I got home to a letter from him. Telling me about his life now, how me ending things had helped him realise he needed to change. Apologising for being ‘grumpy’ while saying how lovely I was. It ended with him saying he didn’t understand why we couldn’t be in contact and how he would always love me.
I binned the letter.
I no longer take antidepressants or drink heavily. I am happier and healthier than I’ve been in a long time. The experience will always make me wary but it won’t destroy me. The man I loved was a fabrication and you can’t miss, love or need a person who doesn’t exist. The real him was a scary, abusive, self entitled arse who I am so grateful I no longer have in my life.
to all of you who still have to have contact either through children or because they are your family.
@Zofloramummy - I could have written your post, almost to the letter!
The first time I threw him out I also made sure I called my parents, it was done more impulsively as my daughter had her friend round and his nastiness was escalating (to me), I told him to get out and that my parents were on their way over - luckily he went without the kids witnessing anything.
Of course he hoovered me back in, tearful phone calls, promises he would get counselling (he did 1 Skype session before he got bored, I don't even think he paid the woman), blaming it all on his childhood where he witnessed his dad (who he hero-worshipped) beating his mum (who he hates and is now in a mental hospital - no wonder after living with 2 narcs, poor woman).
He lasted a few months before I realised he was never going to change, and I too am happier than I have been for a long time, no more low level MH issues, drinking less (he would often bring wine home even after I told him I wanted to cut down).
I actually did end up getting pregnant with him, I suffered a ruptured ectopic and very nearly died. He flew out of the country for work 2 days later (he thought he deserved a medal for not flying out the next day like he was supposed to) so I had to get my friend to stay with me and look after me and my daughter. The following weekend he flew into a rage at me for asking him to come to bed when he had already been asleep on the sofa for most of the evening. I remember him standing over me screaming while I begged him please to calm down.
He would do that a lot, fall asleep in the sofa rather than engage with me in any way, and then get angry when I tried to suggest he come to bed. He would say that he was watching what was on the tv when he had plainly been snoring like a pig for the last 2 hours.
I really can't understand what I ever saw in him - he was a disgusting human inside and out.
alittlebitshit2019 I didn't have a breakdown after being married to a narc for 17 years, but I have been diagnosed with cptsd.
A miserable thing which I sometimes forget I've been diagnosed with and just think I'm a lot shit. Then eventually I'll remember why I have become reclusive, don't enjoy anything much any more, feel like there's a pane of glass between me and the world, often (mostly) don't feel like a real person, never feel safe and have horror movie level nightmares.
My ex was violent, had screaming rages over the most random of things, was he gels controlling over everything. Where I went, what I did, what I wore, down to knicker level, my make up. Me, I was an object to him and it was terrifying getting away from him. My parents and our social circle thought he was wonderful and I was the luckiest woman ever.
Well, men weren't usually taken in, I've since discovered.
So I work and do what is needed at home. I doubt I'll ever be in a relationship again, but that's fine, it's over-rated. I do feel loneliness, I think, but my emotions are very blunted.
It's awful, really, he was hideously destructive. He wanted to be what I was, back when I had friends and happiness, so he destroyed it in me.
I'll eventually recover. I will do it, but it takes a lot of time.
In case it wasn't obvious, I am now we'll rid! His latest pathetic hoovering attempt was telling me that his mum is dying and he needed to come and get some of his stuff for her funeral - it turned out to be a load of bollocks. It was because I had told him that he could only come to get his stuff at a time that suited me and when I could have a third party present. He also tried to suggest sending one of his flying monkeys around, he could not accept the fact that I wanted someone I knew and trusted present during any face to face interaction with him or any of his cronies. But then why would he? He wanted a chance for him or one of his mates to manipulate me in my own home. He didn't want his stuff at all, and especially not for an imaginary funeral!
@Allalittlebitshit2019 I was on the verge of a nervous breakdown when everything went wrong. I was on a high dose of antidepressants and I think the only reason I kept functioning was that I had to work.
What made everything worse was that he had decided that he could still be my "best friend" even though he had left. At one point he even said he wanted to be able to tell me about his new relationship. How fucking sick was that? I repeatedly told him to fuck off, but it took several months for him to get the message.
@Zofloramummy I remember your thread from a few months ago. I'm so glad you got out and are safe now.
Yes @blueangel1 I had a thread on here. I have to say the advice I received was a massive support in confirming my realisation that the relationship was rotten to the core. I really valued the support and would recommend anyone going through the same to have an outlet to vent on!
Join the discussion
Registering is free, quick, and means you can join in the discussion, watch threads, get discounts, win prizes and lots more.Get started »
Please login first.