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Paranoid or not

(41 Posts)
LostDad79 Sat 23-Jun-18 19:25:20

I need help to work out of I’m losing it or I’m not crazy.
I’m male, married 20 years 3 kids in marriage counselling with my wife.
Seceral years ago my wife starting meeting up with a dad from one of my kids sports clubs. At first the used to just chat at while waiting for the kids but then they started meeting for dog walking. However this was all hidden from me and I had never met this dad.
I only found out as I saw a text one time from this guy and her answer of “maybe she shouldn’t meet up with strange guys in the woods” all the other texts on this thread were deleted.
I asked her about it and we had a big discussion. I was paranoid she said it was nothing. But she wouldn’t meet up with him again. She didn’t tell me who it was just some guy she met while walking the dog.
In the end I said ok fine and believed her.
A few weeks later I came home from work early. And the car was there but nobody home. Dog was also out. I went out and worked in the garden an hour or so later I saw her come out of the woods next to the house but instead of walking straight to the house took a roundabout way down the road and back up the fields to the house with our dog. She hadn’t seen me in the garden but must have heard me as I had been using a chainsaw. She didn’t say much so I went in to make a coffee. Out of th window I saw a guy walk out of the woods from the same place she did and walk down towards a car. Took me a few minutes but by this time he had walked quickly down to his car and drove away. I recognised him from the kids sports club.
We argued all my fault it was nothing. Later I saw that she had texted him that I was their to be careful when he came out. I’m not violent but maybe she meant keep hidden.
She basically said she lied because she knew I wouldn’t like it but there was nothing going on.
Fast foreward a few years and another instance of lying to me this time about a condom.
Anyway after many attempts we are in marriage counselling. The counsellor said that women tell white lies! It’s normal. She also said as I worked away that women have needs, implying that it was ok for her to have an affair?
To me this isn’t a white lie? Nor is it ok. Am I crazy.
I’m not saying that I’m perfect and it takes 2 to make a marriage work.
My question is really am I crazy for thinking it’s wrong to hide meeting up with someone of the opposite sex. Or if in a same sex relationship to hide meeting with someone of the same sex. And lying about it. And if you do isn’t it reasonable for the other person to be suspicious?

FuckItPassMeTheWine Sat 23-Jun-18 19:35:44

Why on earth would you want a man to go dog walking confused I think you know the answer to this OP. Your partner has cheated. I would start to get your ducks in a row and see a shit hot lawyer , it’ll just be a matter of time before she has her exit affair imo.

So sorry your going through this, women like this really are the lowest 😣. Sending you strength flowers

AdaArdor Sat 23-Jun-18 20:22:48

Totally not paranoid! I don't know how else you could interpret it! Even if (if!) she hadn't cheated that day in the woods, earlier on when asked she said she would have no further contact with him.... And then she went behind your back and saw him again.

The therapist sounds absolutely terrible, I don't agree with anything s/he has said about white lies and women's needs, it's bullshit. But it's irrelevant. Your gut is screaming at you. Listen to it, and take FuckIts advice above re lawyer.

I'm so sorry, you deserve much better.

ovendoor Sat 23-Jun-18 20:23:56

Sorry you're going through this, I would feel the same.

One of my closest friends is a bloke and I have never felt the need to be secretive about meeting up with him, nor any of my other male friends.

I don't think you're being paranoid, but I think your feelings are being minimised by your wife and the counsellor, she would get the sack if she were mine. Could you seek counselling alone?

LostDad79 Sun 24-Jun-18 00:46:24

Thanks all, this is reassuring. It doesn’t make things easier but at least I know I’m not crazy. I will look for sone independent counselling. It’s difficult as I’ve had to push to get us to counselling. So I’ve tried to take it softly softly approach counselling. Hasn’t worked.
We’ve been through a lot.
I’m not trying to attack and blame but I can’t work it out without knowing what happened. I would love to work things out but can’t just sweep it under the rug.

Prawnofthepatriarchy Sun 24-Jun-18 01:04:54

LostDad, you sound lovely. She sounds not so lovely. From what you say, she first cheated on you some years ago and then did so again more recently - the condom incident. Now you're in counseling and the counsellor is saying your need to know exactly what happened is unreasonable because all women tell little white lies and, besides which, they have needs?

What a bitch! And so unprofessional!

You don't need a counsellor to tell that your wife has been unfaithful, or that she may still be having an affair. I think it's obvious.

My best friend was a man. My husband never had a moment's anxiety. I was always open as the day about what we'd watched or discussed. Meeting people of the opposite sex secretly while married is dodgy. Always.

Now you have to decide what to do about it.

LostDad79 Sun 24-Jun-18 10:02:25

Ending the marriage is the last resort for me, but I’m unfortunately almost there. We’ve struggled because of the lack of communication in our marriage.
I would like to move forward but I need to lay the past to bed. Can’t do that without the truth. Or at least to start admitting that she should have talked and not hidden. She has to recognise that she avoids telling the truth when she thinks I might not agree to something. It’s happened quite a few times. Sometimes over small things.
She told me once she was going to a trade show with a girlfriend and the girlfriend accidentally said they were going to a concert.
I’m not an ogre I’ve never said she can’t go or do something. I may not like everything she does and she doesn’t have to like everything I do.
But there are boundaries. Meeting secretly with another man is one. And if she can’t admit it then it’s over.
The question is do I give an ultimatum or try to work through counselling gently?

Prawnofthepatriarchy Sun 24-Jun-18 10:10:08

That's entirely up to you. We don't know you or her either.

Personally I'd find the lying hard to take. Marriage is all about trust for me. But if she lies about where she's going with a woman friend it sounds as if she lies almost reflexively. Did she perhaps grow up in a family where just being herself involved concealing what she was doing even when it was something harmless? Because I know someone like that.

I don't understand what counseling is doing for you. The counsellor doesn't appear to be any use. I'd pull out.

LostDad79 Sun 24-Jun-18 14:40:39

I’m not saying she lies all the time. Not that I know. We’ve had some great times traveling and working around the world. It seems to have changed when we settled down. Not my choice her choice to be back where she grew up.
Hard for me to pull out of the counselling as I pushed so hard to get us here. It was the 3rd and last attempt after I had the house valued in case we needed to sell it if we got divorced. This seemed to motivate her.
The lying seems to be what she does if she thinks I won’t approve or maybe if it looks she’s having fun while I’m working.
Like going to the pub with her girlfriends while I have to work late and the kids are at home. Because of lack of trust I sometimes check or have been told by her friends they have plans to go out. She’ll say she’s going straight home. I don’t care if she goes out just nice to say. Maybe she feels guilty I don’t know? She shouldn’t.
We have drifted apart over the years with me working away but our problems started long before that. But we never talked about them .
We don’t really argue either.
We’ve been together for about 24 years married 20. That’s a lot to just throw away but we both need to be happy. Which is what I said to her. I’m not sure what she wants anymore.
To make it harder I’ve had treatment for prostate cancer. That was very difficult but also made me think about life more.

FuckItPassMeTheWine Sun 24-Jun-18 14:49:04

I think you are giving her to many excuses , the fact she was going to a trade show but her friend said a concert makes me think she was meeting up with a male and not her friend at all. IMO I think she is probably still involved with someone else . Whether that be an emotional or physical affair. I think you need to be very careful by letting this continue as you could waste more years of your life with this woman who will eventually leave you on her terms sad sorry if that’s all sounding harsh but that’s the vibe I’m getting from whet you’ve described and what usually happens on these threads flowers

MiniTheMinx Sun 24-Jun-18 15:30:20

Well, it seems as though she has cheated, one before and once again, or even multiple times, who knows.

You believe she has. You don't have incontrovertible evidence (or do you).

She lies, she will always tell fibs. So, she must have lied over this.

Except, if you are totally of the belief she cheated, even if her denial was honest you will assume she has lied. You will only believe her to be telling the truth if she confesses. So, until she does she is telling fibs. And what if there is nothing to confess. She is to you still a liar.

So, in the absence of proof or fact you only have the fact that you can't trust her. Trust is not won, it's given, and you can't now give it. So, if you have no trust to give then it's end game isn't it.

It's a dead duck.

MiniTheMinx Sun 24-Jun-18 15:39:29

Can you forgive if she confesses or will you see this as proof she still can't be trusted. If she were to confess to an affair it will simply justify your position of distrust and validate your intuition as correct. Thereafter you will feel validated in your opinion that she is always a liar.

You can't recover this unless you make peace with the idea that she lies and be happy with that. She is what she is in your opinion, and that opinion won't change whatever she does now.

LostDad79 Sun 24-Jun-18 15:52:19

I guess what I don’t understand is if she is not happy say it and we can work it out or split apart. Why stay with me if she’s not happy.
Maybe while I was working away she had the best of both worlds. Steady salary coming in from me her independence while I was away for over 1/2 the year. I guess I’ve struggled to see her this way as love made me blind? But love needs to run both ways I think for it to be real or for a it to work.
Maybe she’s hanging on to see how my heath goes? But this seems very harsh and I can’t believe that.
I have overheard her talking to a friend about us and not wanting to separate while the oldest child was taking his exams he’s 16. Well they have just finished so she could have been stalling.
I’ll have to see how this weeks session goes. I had planned to say that this would be my last session and that I wanted to divorce unless I had the truth and that she wanted to move forward together.
However my sisters one of whom has been through divorce said I should keep working at it slowly as any ultimatums could be the end. And that at least talking in marriage counselling is talking.
For me I’m at the point that I could easily throw in the towel an d move on. We haven’t had sex in 3 years. She hasn’t even hugfed me unless I hugged her first. During my treatment I said that I needed some love a hug, empathy. One time after I said it and then that was it really.
It all sounds very bleak when I type it out. She moved into the spare bedroom in January,

MyRelationshipIsWeird Sun 24-Jun-18 15:58:49

The counsellor said that women tell white lies! It’s normal. She also said as I worked away that women have needs, implying that it was ok for her to have an affair

I would say you need a new counsellor, but actually I think you just need to leave your wife.

She’s repeatedly lied and snuck about with another guy and now has someone who apparently condones this behaviour. Fuck that.

And obviously whatever the condom lie was about, doesn’t sound promising!

There are plenty of nice women out there who won’t treat you like a mug.

LostDad79 Sun 24-Jun-18 17:32:31

Very profound minitgeminx

LostDad79 Sun 24-Jun-18 17:59:26

Sorry minitheminx
Not so much confesses to an affair but that the first time the dog walker that it wasn’t just about the dogs. Not that it was physical but that she understands why I can’t see it as just meeting up for dog walking.
It’s a vicious circle. Mistrust lies mistrust lies.
We just had a talk as the counsellor suggested. Didnt go well. She asked how I was getting on with what the counsellor was saying. I said not that well I thought it was a bit one sided at times. But it was important that we were there and talking.
She asked how I found the counsellor I stupidly/honestly said through the solicitor I talked to.
So I may have forced the end any way. The question is do I stick to my guns? Try to make peace? Something in between??
If she said I had an affair I would try to work it out. Maybe it wouldn’t work but I would try.
I just want her to say yes I know the guy was after her and that I can’t except that sort of thing. If she wants that freedom it can’t be with me.
I came home and found a vibrator on the bed, a strange set of car keys, a tight sexy pair of trousers on the bed and a condom in her pocket, I knew a male friend had visited. The car keys were nothing. She told me she found the condom on the floor and the vibrator is obvious.
The condom was one of ours and hadn’t been on the floor but eventually she told me it was for a married friend of ours who liked some guy.
I said how could you help her have an affair. She said no it was more of a joke. I said I don’t think it’s funny as the husband is a friend of ours.

LostDad79 Sun 24-Jun-18 18:04:32

I’m not sure I can carry on with the marriage at this point. Maybe I do have issues but it’s not all me. We both need to try.
It would be so nice just to be able to sit down next to each other on the sofa. Take a walk. Hold hands!! Or even have sex shock horror.

FuckItPassMeTheWine Sun 24-Jun-18 18:06:32

She must think you’re stupid , don’t see how she got outta that dodgy scenario shock

LostDad79 Mon 25-Jun-18 13:34:47

I think I must be stupid🙃. Stupid is as stupid does.
But it’s over really. Going to talk tonight we need to both be happy. I know I’m not and it doesn’t seem like she is. I can’t see how she can be. So I guess it’s ultimatum time. Not in an aggressive way just I cant take any more. Life’s to short.

MiniTheMinx Tue 26-Jun-18 08:03:09

How did it go yesterday? Have you resolved anything or is this it now?

LostDad79 Tue 26-Jun-18 16:23:58

Nothing resolved. Didn’t talk about it. Beautiful day when I got home from work. Just enjoyed some time with the family outside then watched TV altogether. wife went to bed early and I stayed up with my other 2 kids.
From what I can get my wife would like us to live separate lives together in the same house. Doesn’t work for me.
We are so far apart I can’t see how we can get back together. I wants share a life together not just bills and kids.
Laugh together for more than a second or 2. I don’t need to be together every second but it would be nice to feel wanted.
Don’t get me wrong I’m not a soppy needy child. Just want a little love and give some back.
I have to chance her down usually to talk. I’ll try again tonight. We’ve got marriage counselling tomorrow but not much point if it’s not working. I need to have some answers. Good or bad. For a start just for her to admit she knew that the guy in the woods liked her and it was more than just a “walk”.
I was told after by a friend that the same guy came on to his wife. I told my wife that and she just ignored that. Maybe it was just the excitement of being hit on but for me it went to far. I hate to be the one breaking the family up.

yetmorecrap Tue 26-Jun-18 17:39:47

I totally get what you are saying OP, I found out 18 months ago my H had an emotional affair with someone who worked for us 11 years ago, he never confessed, I found stuff he had written about it. I know find he has a chronic porn habit, (4 or 5 times a week the minute I’m out the house, occasionally more than once a day) he doesn’t know I know or how I know And has actually told me before he uses it very occasionally when away and he isn’t that interested. Like you I am not an ogre one bit but I do like some boundaries. It’s the lying that’s a big issue because if they lie about these things, it’s impossible to wonder if they lie about other stuff and it totally eroded trust. Like you I am very unsure if I can go on like this

Fuckwithnosensesauce Tue 26-Jun-18 18:47:29

Surely you need to accept that the relationship as it was, is over. You can have stability with your wife and family, but not a sexual relationship. Could you see yourself with another woman?

There are so many clues, it’s like your wife wants to make sure you know, perhaps to force a resolution?

Fflamingo Tue 26-Jun-18 19:09:40

It’s 3 years since the dog walker incident. I’m not sure what’s happening now except you both seem distant. You are trying to fix the marriage and she isn’t.
3 years as a long time, why are you plodding along like this. I would see a solicitor and look at how things would work if you divorced, are you still away half the year? Are the children all at home? Would you live nearby? It definitely sounds like you are flogging a dead horse to me. Time for change imv.

LostDad79 Tue 26-Jun-18 20:43:55

Actually more like 7 years since it happened but I was trying to get an opinion on that. I had moved past it but things got worse since. It was ok for a while but I had to go away for work and was often away for months. I had to pay our mortgage and get us out of debt.
My wife became more distant over time and stopped wearing her wedding ring, often when I came back didn’t want sex. I know sex can slow down but no closeness either. A few years ago a was diagnosed with prostrate cancer. I had to go on medical leave. So I was able to be home more. However my wife was very distant. Very little empathy.
I wasn’t sure I would go back to work away again but in the end I did. I managed 1 year but missed my family to much.
Cancer changed my life in my ways.
However just after I returned there was a strange incident and and I found a condom in her trouser pocket. One of our condoms.
She said she found it on the floor but I knew that wasn’t the truth. Eventually she changed her story and said it was for a married girlfriend friend of hers. Both the husband and wife are our friends. I said how could she help her friend have an affair. She said then said it was more of a joke. I didn’t get the joke.
I also saw a dating app on her phone once when I was helping her do something on her phone. An accident she didn’t know how it got there.
She also had an article about a web sight for married people who want to have affairs.
All circumstantial evidence but added with many little lies breed distrust. We haven’t had sex in 3 years! My treatment would have made it difficult at first but she has barely given me a hug in the last 3 years. I’ve stuck my head in the sand but it’s out and I’m seeing again.
Having said all that it seems obviously over. I’m not without blame it takes both of us to make it work.
She talks with her friends about it being over and having had enough but not me.i guess even with all that has happened I’ve wanted to stay married. We have had a great time in the past but that was long ago.

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