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Are there any good men left?

(33 Posts)
Winosaurus Wed 13-Dec-17 06:50:32

I’ve not had the best history with men (a cheat, an abuser, and walked away when I was pregnant) but I’ve always cling to the hope that their are wonderful men out there because I have happily married friends, wonderful male family members etc who have kept the faith alive.

In the last week I have found out some devastating news that my best friend’s husband and also my cousin’s husband have both cheated and their marriages are now over.
I know this is not really my heartbreak to feel so deeply but I do. These 2 amazing women who both thought they had such happy marriages and families have had their worlds come crashing down. I feel sick and hurt for them.

But the one thing that sticks out to me is that I always assumed it’s unhappy men that cheat... but in these situations it doesn’t seem to be the case? I know you can never know what goes on behind closed doors but for all intents and purposes these marriages were good, happy, stable ones. Loving, financially secure, regular sex, healthy happy children etc.
So why? Why are some men so fucking stupid to ruin their marriages and happy set-ups with women they supposedly love?

I’m honestly starting to believe that all marriages have the potential to be rocked by a pretty face and flattery. That a lot of men are dick lead. In both of these it wasn’t affairs as such but shagging around on stag dos, golfing trips etc.

Why do they do it?

Mrswinkler Wed 13-Dec-17 06:53:34

Because monogamy is a social construct and some find it hard to conform?

SnowGlitter Wed 13-Dec-17 06:58:17

No, it's not unhappy men who cheat necessarily. It's men who have an opportunity and aren't strong enough to say no.

Yes of course all marriages have the potential to be rocked by a pretty face and flattery. No one is immune to it.

To answer you question, they do it because they can and they think they will get away with it. They think they can have the best of both worlds - a wife and loving family at home, and plenty of new women to have sex with when they're out and no one will ever find out. Which when shagging about on stag dos and golfing trips, is very likely.

SnowGlitter Wed 13-Dec-17 06:59:59

Because monogamy is a social construct and some find it hard to conform?

This is true. But no one forces monogamy on someone. If you don't want to be monogamous, you don't marry and promise someone to 'forsake all others'. You say, I'm sorry, I don't want to be monogamous, I want to have sex with lots of different people.

It's the lies and the deceit that's an issue. Not the not wanting to be monogamous.

LesisMiserable Wed 13-Dec-17 07:10:40

As many women as men cheat so its a human thing, not a gender. The fact is, women are far more whiley than men and probably get away with it far more easily.

Winosaurus Wed 13-Dec-17 07:17:06

Les do you think?
I think women are more likely to have an affair in order to meet their emotional needs when they’re in an unhappy relationship. With men it seems to be more of a physical desire that they follow IMHO

TDHManchester Wed 13-Dec-17 07:17:25

As others have said, marriage and the more clearly defined boundaries of typical relationships are simply societal constructs and can never really have sufficient influence to totally exclude animal instinct.

The men are not all shagging each other. They are shagging other women and guess what? Those women are married or in LTRs also !

I have had a number of married/partnered women offer themselves to me in the past and I'm no Brad Pitt <insert alternative fantasy male hunk>

Winosaurus Wed 13-Dec-17 07:17:44

Snowglitter I agree... why get married if you don’t want to be monogamous?

Winosaurus Wed 13-Dec-17 07:21:10

Our animal instincts cause us to want to be territorial, push our offspring that isn’t ours, can cause a want for violence... however we have evolved from those things as a civilised society and have to be able to suppress those urges to be able to function harmoniously.
We are not animals, we are capable of higher thought processes. We don’t shit on the floor because we need to go.
It’s a will, not an unsuppressable urge

Winosaurus Wed 13-Dec-17 07:21:40

push out offspring^

newbirds Wed 13-Dec-17 07:26:22

*We are not animals, we are capable of higher thought processes. We don’t shit on the floor because we need to go.
It’s a will, not an unsuppressable urge*

Thanks for this, it sums up how I feel about infidelity really well. Men play the 'i can't help my carnal urges' card so readily, but I've never really got my head around why it's taken as some sort of get out clause. Like you say, we're capable of higher thought processes.

Winosaurus Wed 13-Dec-17 07:27:51

There are lots of urges we don’t act on because we know it’s not ok. If we all went around doing what we wanted because we had the urge then society wouldn’t function

LesisMiserable Wed 13-Dec-17 07:35:28

I don't think you can liken the urge for the act of procreation and the reason we all exist to shitting on the floor. I'm married. I expect both myself and my husband to be able to not shag other people. But if if we do, then the marriage (our particular union as it were) isnt working anymore and its over. Its simple but becomes massively complicate because of our so called 'higher thought processes'.

LesisMiserable Wed 13-Dec-17 07:36:35

wino whatever the reason,cheating is cheating. You cant make up different rules and grey areas for one gender.

TDHManchester Wed 13-Dec-17 07:39:21

Everyone keeps talking about men. Men men men,,but as i said earlier,they are shagging other women. What excuse do the women have other than carnal desire? Career advancement? A shopping trip perhaps?

Give me carnal desire over thinly veiled prostitution any day.

Winosaurus Wed 13-Dec-17 07:43:09

There’s no excuse for it, if you’re unhappy then leave. If you can’t control your urges for promiscuity then don’t get married. It’s pretty simple really.
Cheaters are the lowest of the low. They lie to be able to afford them their nice comfortable set up and still pursue their sexual interests. It’s not right however you look at it.
And you’re wrong about women cheating as much as men, statistically men are more likely to cheat in their lifetime than women. That is a fact. As you ascribe it to biological urges then you’ll acknowledge that it’s because in nature the males are programmed to breed with as many females as possible.
Also Les you’re right I shouldn’t have compared shitting and cheating because you need to be able to shit to live. You don’t have to cheat though.

Mrswinkler Wed 13-Dec-17 07:55:00

One point of monogamy being a social construct is that people don't understand that there can be other options to marriage and monogamy because it's not talked about. There doesn't seem to be a choice. In the past there was only one choice if you wanted to have sex and be socially accepted - marriage. Nowadays people just live together. It's ok to do that. Maybe one day it'll be socially acceptable to have relationships with more than one person without it being the end of the world.

TheNaze73 Wed 13-Dec-17 08:04:18

It’s normally sex related when men cheat. There’s no excuses for it, if they’re in a boring relationship or one with mismatched libido’s, they should get out, not cheat.
They are normally cheating with married women or ones in LTR’s so it’s not all one way traffic

BeerBaby Wed 13-Dec-17 08:09:01

Both women and men cheat for many many reasons. It's generally easier for a man to abandon a family for practical reasons.

A cheating person I believe can still be a good person. It's the behaviour that's bad! It also depends on the reason why. Is it emotionally driven, ego driven and what they do about it the most telling factor in all this.

How a person repairs what they've done and carries on afterwards is what gives a true indication of their character. Everyone can make mistakes and not realise what's happening until theyre in too deep. A good character would get out of the situation and invest everything into their relationship. Learn from their mistake and not do it again.

Serial cheaters are a totally different issue to an accidental one off, emotional affair.

ShatnersWig Wed 13-Dec-17 08:11:35

I'm a man. I've never cheated. Of course good man are out there. Just as there are plenty of women out there who cheat too

Winosaurus Wed 13-Dec-17 08:22:21

Beerbaby I disagree, I don’t think you can be a good person and cheat because even if you set aside the physical betrayal involved with cheating, it also involves all kinds of lies and deceptive behaviour and ultimately stems from a selfish desire to pursue your own interests to the detriment of those you have committed to.
How can you possibly be a good person and be doing all of this?

BeerBaby Wed 13-Dec-17 21:16:43

Because short term behaviour doesn't define a person. Its an indicator but not definitive and irreversible. Long term or repeated hurtful behaviours do give an indication of a person's character or rather openly show their rotten bits.

Your suggesting that any wrong doing or deception/lies equates to a whole bad person. I find it all a bit black and white. It's all got to weighed up in terms of the specifics of the situation.

I know I'm not perfect. I know I've made mistakes and at times had poor judgement. I openly admit it. I don't know any people who are perfect or never done anything wrong or immoral. Sometimes I've been very selfish. Sometimes I've lied. At Christmas we all lie to our children! They find out the truth and Christmas is never the same again. Does that make us bad people? However, I am not a bad person because of these things. I have learnt, moved on and grown as a result! I also know not to judge others behaviours because it's very true that until you walk in that person's shoes you don't truly understand. This applies to both the cheater and the cheated.

Insomeotheruniverse Wed 13-Dec-17 22:38:33

Well said beerbaby

LizzieSiddal Wed 13-Dec-17 22:46:07

I do think there are some good men out there. Lots of them!

But I’ve just found out about one person cheating and it’s knocked me sideways. It’s the lying I can’t get my head round and it causes so much pain.

TheHolidayArmadillo Wed 13-Dec-17 22:57:58

Well said BeerBaby

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