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If dp cheated and lied, not because of anything I did(65 Posts)
that's a candidate for individual counselling for strategies on how not to be a dick, isn't it?
Dh is insisting we go together, which to me is not addressing the issues and is instead trying to partly hold my responsible for things he chose to do.
Has anyone been in a similar situation? I've told him basically he needs to work on never cheating or lying to me again - he said I would have a sympathetic audience to explain how shit he's been and to give us a way forward. I don't need an audience (would find it excruciating ) I need him not to cheat or lie again.
Why stay in a relationship with someone who is so unhappy they go off with someone else?
Usual reasons, plenty of ppl make it work. Any opinion on the q asked?
Depends if you want the relationship to work or not. I would suggest you both go. There will e reasons he cheated. It may be difficult, but it may be you both learn from it and light is shed on things you haven't acknowledged.
I think you both need individual counselling
Him for the reasons you state and to have it drummed in that his selfish choices belong to him alone
And you to find out why you are willing to tolerate this shit
I guess one of the points of joint counseling would be to work together to rebuild the trust in the marriage. No marriage can succeed without trust. For him, to truly understand the pain he's caused you and how to act in such a way that you will be assured that he will never do it again. For you, yes, a place to 'vent' your anger in a constructive way that, again, makes him see what he's done. It's important to hear what he and the counselor say regarding what 'made' him think cheating was OK, to know the tools he's given, and to hear the things the counselor is saying to him regarding fault and forgiveness?
You say you need him to 'not cheat or lie'. How are you going to ever be able to trust him to do that if you aren't part of the process? How are you going to believe him when he walks in from the counselor and announces "I'm 'cured', I'll never cheat again"?
Why would you find it 'excruciating' to tell a counselor how you feel about what he's done to you? Is there something you're afraid of? You are the injured party, you are innocent in this. Going to counseling certainly doesn't mean that you are accepting any fault or blame for his cheating. Not at all. At any rate there's no requirement for you to say anything other than "He cheated on me and I hate it".
Personally, cheating is an absolute deal breaker for me. But if I did decide to forgive a cheater, I'd want to be 'in the loop' every step of the way through his 'rehabilitation'.
Why are you so reluctant to go to counselling? You do know that going to counselling isn’t an admission of guilt but hopefully a process that can shed light on the corners of your relationship that need work; communication etc.
I really don’t see how you can move forward if neither of you are going to take responsibility for the relationship, yes hes solely responsible for the choices he made to cheat and lie but everyone has their role to play in a relationship dynamic, don’t you want to explore yours? It’s as if you think a counsellor will fix him without you getting your hands dirty but it doesn’t work like that. Unfortunately, recovery from what he did, will need the input of both of you and if you are unwilling to do that then you need to ask yourself why you want to stay in this relationship
You will never be able to trust him again. It will always chip away at your soul. Best to not waste time and move on.
I don't need to vent my anger again. I've done it plenty already and would find it totally embarrassing to do in front of a stranger. Whenever another lie comes to light, I start off asking for an explanation then I get angry or upset when he tries to avoid getting to the root cause or admitting anything. That is what causes the problem atm and doing it in someone's office won't change what he does, only make me feel much worse about it.
He's already told me why he thought he did it (partly the going through a rough patch excuse, which was news to me). But he hasn't bothered to read up to look for tools himself. It doesn't need me there to get tools for him from a counselor. I resent the fact he hasn't bothered, and resent the implication that I need to help him use those tools, as he's put no effort in himself iyswim.
Whether I'm part of the process or not doesn't matter - the only way I'll know I can trust him is if I don't find any other lies in the future.
But you'll have to be constantly looking for those lies, won't you? You'll have to live in a state of 'distrust', questioning where he is and what he's doing even if only in your own head. Because how will you know if he's lying if you aren't questioning and seeking out 'the truth'. I couldn't live like that. And I daresay your DH won't be able to, either. Yes, he was 100% in the wrong, but do you really think he's going to live the rest of his life under a cloud of suspicion and having to account for his every move?
I don't mean to sound harsh, but it seems to me that part of your resistance to counseling is a desire to punish him, to make him feel isolated and alone in this. To make him hurt as you have been hurt. Not that I blame you for it, as I've said I'd have booted him out the door in a trice. But if you are going to keep him around, he isn't going to be able to heal your marriage all on his own, unfortunately. It takes both partners to do that, regardless of whose fault it is. You're either going to have to be a participant or you need to end the marriage.
I didn't constantly look for lies following each other occasion before across. Not all cheating, btw. After a few months or whatever, things settled down again. Each 'event' has been stumbled upon by myself, and I did trust him in between. Which is why I think it's really his problem to treat, within himself. This last one is taking longer, mainly because I see how I forgave before, yet similar still happened further down the line. I certainly haven't driven him to hide things and lie because I'm constantly on his back. Before the most recent kicked off (was stumbled upon, and other things started becoming clear), I hadn't even thought about the previous problems for years. I truly thought they were over and done, not to be repeated. I'd not thought I wanted him to feel isolated and alone, but I certainly would like him to know how it feels. I'm not the kind of person to do all that though, so am resigned to the fact he'll never fully understand how I ve felt.
The point at which you know that it's his problem and he's not concerned or sorry is the point to walk away. In the unlikely event that he went to counselling, there would be no reason to think he would be honest with the counsellor or consider his motivation, because he's not remotely interested in that. He will either pretend to go or go and lie. There is no scenario where he comes back with his tail between his legs saying 'It's all my fault and I will do whatever it takes to make things right between us' because counsellors don't do that and he is not that guy.
Do you feel in a way morally superior to him? And are not entertaining LTB, because your not really invested in the relationship?
If he has "put no effort in at all" you are flogging a dead horse anyway. All this angst, counselling or no counselling, is a complete waste of time. Your relationship is doomed.
No amount of couples Counsellling is going to change his failure to take responsibility for his actions, show remorse and begin to put your relationship back together.
If he is continuing to lie and is blaming you for his choices then it's time to get out before it affects you even more.
He doesn't sound very sorry or interested.
Do you feel in a way morally superior to him?
Only in that i haven't gone out looking for a shag elsewhere and lied to him! Not sure what you're saying there...
I'm not jumping on the ltb bandwagon because it (relationship and family) can be v good, supportive, fun etc, which it was before this last incident, although he was obviously happily enjoying something not totally appropriate or family friendly at the same time. Although this is much less a deal breaker than the initial incident years ago, so maybe he is slowly coming to terms with what is and isn't appropriate, and this may be the last time he needs intervention to realize what's appropriate or not.
Purely from a counselling angle, going along can be helpful.
My DSIS attacked me last year and we didn't speak for a long time until she invited me a long to one of her therapy sessions. Whilst I was hesitant, and felt exposed, I went along. It was incredibly helpful from the viewpoint that my DSIS had completely misremembered the attack and I was able to explain what had actually happened in a safe and nonconfrontational place. I think it helped her and her therapist to address the issue of her not-always-accurate views of life and interactions.
If you do go along, I'd suggest that your DH and yourself have separate therapy and you attend a session or two of his therapy sessions, rather than having joint therapy.
How many chances are you prepared to give him ?
Oh, and reading your post above, I'd say your DH does know what is appropriate, he's just choosing to ignore that.
Of course he is choosing to ignore what is inappropriate. There are no consequences for him.
I'm not sure what advice you are looking for.
You don't want to go to counselling with him and he doesn't want to go alone.
So one of you will have to compromise either he doesn't go or you go with him.
He doesn't take responsibility for his own actions so he will always blame someone else or something else for his poor behaviour.
You want to cling on to this relationship due to the good times.
Remember that all relationships have good times. All people have good points, even Hitler had good points.
Only you can decide if you want to tolerate this. He isn't going to change or admit fault.
If you are determined to carry on with your marriage why wouldn’t you go? My DH and I have only had a couple of sessions so far and will have to wait a while for more but it has definitely helped. Small practices like always finding each other to say ‘bye’ before you leave the house and seeking each other when you get back have already helped to ease the tension. He also now understands how depressing I find his almost OCD clutter in the house and is working on getting rid of a bag full a week. I felt resentful towards my DH as I do the majority of cleaning, cooking and childcare while working full time. The counsellor has helped him to see my point of view and it has improved somewhat but I have also seen his point of view and now thank him for the things he does. Previously I did just get angry when he pointed out when he did things as I would think ‘I’ve cooked every supper for the last 8 days without thanks so why should I be thanking you for your single effort?’ It is still not equal but it is slowly improving and I am able to see the effort he does put into the things he does. (BTW My DH has lots of Aspergers traits but is undiagnosed which is why we are taking it slowly). Counselling has made a tremendous difference already and we have only seen our counsellor twice so far. Why not give it a chance?
@Fitbitironic This is really good.
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