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Cruel to not let mum see gs?

(54 Posts)
ChocolatePHD Tue 21-Nov-17 08:54:27

Hi all,

I've posted before about my struggles with my mum. She stayed with a guy who was a total shit to me- occasionally violent, verbally abusive, had an affair and told me to keep my mouth shut about it (mum didn't know), picked me apart daily for how I stood/ walked/ dressed etc. Mum backed him up and was motionless during the violent times. They would sit me down and lecture me for not being affectionate to him. It was crazy and horrible and I began SH at 8, ringing childine and planning to run away.

Since I had ds she's gone from not really bothered about seeing me to wanting to be round every five minutes, calling us darling, falling over herself to do things for us. It kind of broke my brain. I was vibrating with so much anxiety that it was overwhelming me and I ended up with dreadful body pains, panic attacks and surges of adrenaline crashing to feeling low (am bipolar). Every time she was coming round I felt so awkward and such a huge sense of shame in her presence.

Fast forward to now- in the last year I've told her how I feel and I've stepped away. She was seeing my son once a month but she started getting pushy and angry about when she could see him and I had to step away further. We have had an email back and forth where I was straight up about how her behaviour has affected me and how I don't know how to move forward. She replied with lots of sorrys for the past but said again she was 'scared' of my stepdad (which has infuriated me, he never laid a hand on her). She also made an emotional plea re ds saying how sad it was for him not to have his Christmas presents from her last year (he didn't give a monkeys) and how our relationship issues shouldn't come into her seeing him (umm ok).

I find myself feeling so angry about the things she has said. I don't want to see her myself and I don't want my son to see her. But she lays so much guilt at my door, here are some quotes from things she has said:

'Your letter had a terrible effect on me, I didn't work for six weeks and I had to go on stronger antidepressants'

'This all must be very upsetting for ds and he must think we don't care about him, how sad for him that he couldn't have his Christmas presents'

'I was in an awful relationship with your stepdad, trying to keep myself together for all those years, it ruined my life'

'I thought we had a wonderful relationship, or so I thought'

For info I have repeatedly asked ds if he has any feelings about not seeing grandma and he looks at me incredulous and says no. He never asks about her, nothing.

I know that I can't have a relationship with her myself anymore. It's all too broken. But she is desperate to see ds. However her vists were fraught with problems and even though she was only coming to my door to collect him it felt so wrong and painful that I would get panic attacks.

I can't get past feeling like a cruel bastard who will go to hell if I don't organise time between her and him. I feel like I'm ruining her life. I know this is a direct consequence from her actions but still. I feel so horrible over this that I could scream. I don't know how to deal with this. If I let her see him I have to deal with the awkwardness and organisation of it via text etc. And if I don't allow it I feel like the cruellest most selfish person on earth.

Please help.

ChocolatePHD Tue 21-Nov-17 08:59:54

JUst to add- if she'd been out and out evil this decision would be easier. There are times where she has dropped everything for me and been extremely caring. Hence the dilemma.

Fekko Tue 21-Nov-17 09:03:02

Where is he now? You are entitled to keep her at arms length until you can process your childhood. She has no right to demand anything if you and emotional blackmail is just so wrong.

Justbookedasummmerholiday Tue 21-Nov-17 09:04:04

Imo /e you have to put your own mh first and dealing with her is not good for you. You ds has told you how he feels (or lack of) take your cues from all these factors and tell her unfortunately you aren't in a position to maintain a relationship with her at this time. Block her if necessary but don't be dragged down with guilt trips. You really need to be looking out for yourself.
Like she did at your expense back then.

user1497997754 Tue 21-Nov-17 09:04:53

If anybody makes you feel negative in any way remove them from your life...end need to feel guilty about it....this is YOUR life....your mother has had hers and she chose for herself....put your big girl pants on and stand up for yourself and your son....she is not a good influence in your life and makes you feel ill .....

Bekabeech Tue 21-Nov-17 09:04:54

You need to go properly NC with her. Have you been on the Stately Hones thread in relationships?

Have you had any counselling?

This sounds all about her, as it always has been. With deep thought you may even find the selfish motive in her “good deeds”.

TurnipCake Tue 21-Nov-17 09:05:19

Put you and yours first. Your mum's language is very manipulative. Your DS won't suffer from not seeing someone who makes his mum miserable.

Rubyslippers7780 Tue 21-Nov-17 09:06:37

Why should you please her? Your child is not a tool to make her life happy. You do not have to listen to emotional blackmail..easier said than done. Just don't do it. She can not rewrite the past but you can stop her from impacting on your life from now on.

LaContessaDiPlump Tue 21-Nov-17 09:15:40

Shit, she is really guilting you. You owe her nothing op, and don't believe her if she says otherwise. You really can just stop contact if that is what you need to do. Really.

hellsbellsmelons Tue 21-Nov-17 09:16:58

Well she's still manipulating you.
Please google FOG (fear obligation guilt)
You owe her nothing.
Just read what she has said again.
It's all 'I' 'ME' 'MY'
It's all about her.
This is about you and your DS.
You know you are doing the right thing.
Don't falter.
Don't let her manipulation win out.
SHE ruined YOUR life!
You've got yourself back to a good place.
Don't slide back again.

HandbagCrazy Tue 21-Nov-17 09:20:18

All of those quotes are blaming you for the state of the relationship between you. She is minimising your childhood traumas and desperately trying to manipulate into brushing it under the carpet and giving her what she wants.

As she is not prepared to acknowledge what you went through and accept responsibility for her part in it, you are completely right to step back. She didn't protect you, so it's fair that you are now worried about her having contact with your dc.

Where is her husband now?

I would also add, as someone who had a bad grandparent on either side of the family (for different reasons), a relationship with a grandparent isn't needed - it's a lovely bonus as long as it is a nice and healthy, but not having it isn't going to effect the child. My grandfather was an abusive shit to one of my parents and even now I don't understand why I was expected to have a relationship with him. At 12yo, I knew the type of person he was and enough about the things he did to decide to go nc.

AttilaTheMeerkat Tue 21-Nov-17 09:22:26


You continue to tie yourself up in knots because of your mother; your FOG is still very much evident and shows in your thinking re your mother also. E-mails back and forth from her to you have simply keep the door open; a door that should really now be closed. Your mother has been selfish and cruel; you think this of yourself primarily because she has told you and you believe it because of years of her abusive conditioning of you. No-one protected you from her abuses of you sadly.

A good rule of thumb is if she is too toxic for you to deal with she is too toxic for your child as well. He does not need her in his life and nor do you. He does not care about her and does not miss her. She was not a good parent (a total understatement) to you when growing up and she has not fundamentally altered since your own childhood. She made your life growing up a misery and still does, you get physical symptoms like panic attacks when she arrives at your door because of her and her behaviours. You will not go to hell if you do not organise time between her and him; address properly why you think otherwise. Who would contact benefit; she could well round on your son as she did with you. Contact from her would in no way benefit your son or you. Her responses re the letter you sent and Christmas presents are infact typical of what such toxic people actually come out with. There is no apology or acknowledgement of any responsibility for their actions. She continues to blame you for her own poor life choices; she uses you as her scapegoat for her inherent ills. Its not your fault she is like this, you did not make her this way.

Deal with your fear, obligation and guilt properly through therapy and find a therapist also that has no bias about keeping families together. Your son and you need to come first now; you owe your mother precisely nothing. Keep her well away from your son and yourself; she does not bring anything at all positive in your lives. Any "good" and or caring behaviour she did towards you was only to make her own self look good in front of others.

Cricrichan Tue 21-Nov-17 09:23:58

For a start I wouldn't trust anyone who'd treated me and allowed someone to abuse me as a child with my own child.

Also, you've suffered enough because of her as a child and have had lasting damage. You're under no obligation to continue as an adult. Now that you've got your own child, can you imagine ever letting anyone abuse him like she did you? Don't feel at all guilty.

ChocolatePHD Tue 21-Nov-17 09:24:16

Thank you. My stepdad went out of the picture when I finally told her about his affair- only then did she deem him a shitbag and kick him out! hmm

She has remarried now.

Ttbb Tue 21-Nov-17 09:25:40

Can't you see what she is doing? She usctrying to get close enough to your son that you can't step s away anymore. She is just using him to hurt you.

springydaffs Tue 21-Nov-17 09:37:04

This is so sad.

I think your situation perfectly illustrates the dilemma when a parent has not been out and out evil but has caused us immense harm.

The bottom line is: you have to care for yourself. And by extension, your boy. If you are undermined to this extent this will have a direct impact on your boys emotional and mental wellbeing. It's as basic as that: you have to care for yourself.

She is not taking responsibility for what she has done. In a very real sense she was also a victim of the same monster BUT that is for her to find out. She drastically failed you as a mother bcs she was in his power.

Perhaps tell her about this book and then back away. You MUST. Block her on everything. You must, for your health's sake.

If it helps then you can see it that you will block her for a period of time eg months, a year, to begin with. Ie you don't have to take the weight of it being permanent. You can then review it when the time you set yourself is coming up.

Have you had therapy around your childhood abuse? flowers

springydaffs Tue 21-Nov-17 09:41:50

Any "good" and or caring behaviour she did towards you was only to make her own self look good in front of others.

We have no way of knowing, from op's info, if this is true or not.

Cricrichan Tue 21-Nov-17 09:42:05

She was evil though. To pick a child apart daily is evil. She's a selfish and evil woman. The stepfather was too. She had no problem kicking him out when it suited her.

SandyY2K Tue 21-Nov-17 09:44:20

I would cut her out of my life for good.
Did she witness the verbal abuse?

She is not a good mother and she isn't really interested in you...just your son.

Cricrichan Tue 21-Nov-17 09:48:55

She didn't only witness it, she backed him up during the verbal abuse and stood motionless during the physical abuse. Yet, she was quick to kick him out when she found that he'd been having an affair.

ChocolatePHD Tue 21-Nov-17 09:50:00

Yes she witnessed everything. And even after he was out of the picture she then kept pushing me away when I needed her because her new fiancé was on the scene.

Conversely since she got married (and therefore felt secure in her relationship) she has been trying so hard to help me/ us and it feels so irritating that she didn't care before.

So much of our back and forth have been about 'i' this and 'i' that and direct appeals to manipulate me.

I've been seeing a therapist for a year and to a degree she has been good but I've hit a wall with her now where she's like , I know you're struggling with the guilt over ds not seeing her so maybe lets hand him over to her via a friend or something, but that's not right either. I need someone to help me work through the emotional blackmail and guilt of walking away whereas with her we keep flip flopping about and not making a firm decision so I can breathe. She also suggested that I give my son some autonomy in this and let him decide what to do!!!!!

springydaffs Tue 21-Nov-17 09:50:44

No, I do not believe parental abuse is black +white. The majority of the time it isn't black and white.

But protecting ourselves IS black and white. We don't have to demonise the parent/s to do that. It is a false and unsteady premise, for our own ongoing mental health, to entirely damn and demonise our parent/s. On rare occasions it is appropriate.

Your mental and emotional health is being seriously undermined by continued exposure to your mother. You MUST protect yourself (and your boy) FIRST. Your mum is an adult and has her own journey to navigate - you can't do it for her.

PollytheDolly Tue 21-Nov-17 09:55:13

She needs to accept her abhorrent behaviour at the very minimum, instead of blaming you for making her feel bad.

I’m afraid it would be NC with me and I wouldn’t feel guilty at all.


ChocolatePHD Tue 21-Nov-17 10:09:59

I've drafted an email spelling out that however she feels is not my fault but hers and at this point in my life I can't do this. Terrified to click send!

PollytheDolly Tue 21-Nov-17 10:25:22

Good! Have you sent it?

Hand holding here.

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