Didn't want to be back on here so soon

[greenberet]

After getting my last thread deleted but I have nowhere else to go _ I need to get this out

I need the X's agreement to take the kids on holiday ( not due to court order but country) and he has refused. Said he's thought about it and spoken to kids and doesn't agree.

wTF is wrong with him - the country is significant to me its where my mum was born - I've never been and I want to take the kids - I've always wanted to go and made the decision to do it after getting breast cancer i knew he was going to do this - he did this before during the divorce process and the solicitors were arguing over the finer points of it all - in the end I backed down because of the hassle - this wasn't even to this country just not uk.

I had wanted to go October half term - I had already changed the dates from earlier in the year due to not being right time with kids needing to revise etc and for one reason or another haven't got round to booking anything yet. Whether it was going to be possible I didn't know but thought I'd see what his reaction would be.

Right now I can't say how I feel I am too numb to cry - this is just one continual onslaught after another - I am supposed to be free of him -but he can still dish out the abuse every time

I would be on the floor if I hadn't expected it - but even so I'm pretty close. what is his fucking problem.i have once again lost the motivation to do anything - I had a hospital Procedure yesterday - this was enough to contend with.

Please those that have commented before and told me I am on some "pity party" please refrain from commenting - I do not need this. In fact I don't really care if I get no comments - this is my record of what's going on in my head and one day I shall put all my posts together - if you read thank you

[Changedname3456]

Possibly point out to him that he'll need your permission when he wants to do the reverse and take them abroad so perhaps a compromise is in order.

Also, if the country is a Hague signatory it may be worth drawing his attention to that. The kids would be repatriated back to the UK if you tried to keep them in one, although it would cost him a lot of money to go through the court process.

Is there any reason he "could" be wary of this particular country? Do you have extended rellies there who e.g. (he might think) could assist you in keeping the kids there?

[Ellisandra]

I know that this shit is just constant from him and grinds you down making everything a battle. But some battles are worth it.
Why do you need his permission for this country or the one you said he blocked you from taking them to previously?
Is it to do with visas?
I would fight this battle.

[FinallyHere]

You see, I don't think I would give him the ammunition. I know it hurts but that would be that, I just wouldn't try anything where I knew he had a veto. You can't rely on him to put the kids interests first.

Could you spend some of the money on having some of your family travel here, so they would get to see the kids in (the kids') own environment?

[AdalindSchade]

You need to apply to court for a specific issue order.

[greenberet]

Thank you - it's South Africa - the entry requirements are strict - I'm only planning on going to Cape Town I have no reason to refuse him to take the kids away.

Last time I believe it was jealousy - we would have been going away with my partner and I don't think he liked it - he wanted to know exactly when where etc - my solicitor told him it was none of his business and so he refused - this was in amongst all sorts of financial shit going on with divorce and I just didn't have the energy to fight it all. We went in uk instead.

I think a massive part of this is because Dd refuses to meet OW.

My mum always wanted to go back - my DF would never take her - I want to take her ashes there - there is some significance why I want the kids to go - he may or may not have made this connection but if he has this will possibly be another reason to refuse

I am worn down with it all every single time he finds some way of being obstructive

[CredulousThickos]

Do you have a residency order? Because that would mean you didn’t need permission for up to a month out of the country.

I’m no expert but I though judges usually overruled things like one parent refusing permission to travel unless there are very solid reasons.

[greenberet]

There is no family there that I know of - I have absolutely no intention of abducting the kids they are 16 - this is for me and them to have some connection to our heritage - I believe I got breast cancer which gave me the funds to fight him in court - another story - this is for me mainly - everything else has been about kids although as I've said there is some significance for them too

[greenberet]

There is no court order for kids

I don't want to have to take this to court - this maybe his intention- I have lost faith in legal system - I never want to step foot in another court - my FH was traumatic

[WatchingFromTheWings]

As the kids are 16 I think I’d just be tempted to wait until they’re 18 and take an extended trip out there. Naff all he can do about it then! It’s shit the way he’s behaving but I think he’ll probably continue to dig his heels in for the sake of it.

[Racmactac]

Well issue your application at court then. Honestly the court will be furious with him and you might even get Costs order against him

[Isetan]

I get it I really do. After getting sentenced to prison (DV) and moving to a prison nearer to his Mummy and Daddy but much further away from DD making it virtually impossible to make the early visiting times (hence no contact between them). He threatened me that if I took her out of the country he would have me charged with child abduction.

I decided that if I let the anger take over, only DD and I would suffer so I didn’t, it was hard but I would not the let the fucker win. In a few short years your children will be old enough where his permission will no longer needed.

You have a choice and ‘being on the floor’ is still your choice, the only power this man has over you is the headspace you afford him.

[CredulousThickos]

Do they live with you full time?

You can get a residence order for a few hundred quid, you won’t need a solicitor and it won’t be difficult. Just download the forms.

[greenberet]

I knew this would happen - I asked him to reply by today - the kids are with him this week as I needed a break - sometimes he ignores my communication - such as when I said I am really struggling can you have kids for 3 weeks - nothing and so Ds has to organise it with him.

I couldn't sleep last night - this came through about 10.30 - I couldn't sleep after - I haven't had a break I have been concerned about kids all week and the histoscopy I had to have done urgently yesterday.

I am on a continual fucking rollercoaster that no matter how I try and move forward I am continually slapped back down

[catrin]

I don't ask. I suggest to dd she may want to tell him we are going away for a week, but after being threatened on multiple occasions - I won't give permission so you can't, I'll getcyiu arrested for abduction, I'll keep her so you can't kidnap her etc - my solicitor told me the following:
If I had a family holiday booked with return flights and was only going for a week or two, a court would not give him permission to refuse the trip unless there were other concerns. He advised i tell him out of courtesy that we are leaving the country for a week, but that realistically, it was normal family stuff to have holidays so judge highly unlikely to refuse.
But I figure that the as he doesn't pay maintenance, he doesn't get a say. So we go anyway.

[titchy]

If the kids are 16 why do they need permission? I thought once they were 16 they could fly anywhere they wanted?

(Ds is flying alone next summer aged 16 - does he need written permission then?)

[Ellisandra]

OP can't just go anyway.
SA has very strict rules about under 18s with a divorced parents who share PR travelling with only one parent - you have to bring a consent form from the other parent, or a court order.

You need to decide what's most important to you.

• take your mum's ashes back alone
  
• wait and take them with your kids in 2 years time
  
• go back to court - much as you don't want to go, I can't see any way in hell a court wouldn't grant you an order to take almost adult children anywhere you like with no more than providing him with scant details
  

Is he lying about the kids not wanting to go?
I have 16 and 18yo steps. One would jump at CT, any travel is good. The other wouldn't want to sit on a long plane journey to a country she feels no connection to (a grandparent from there wouldn't count).

How did he block you before? SA is really strict but not all counties are.

I don't know what's best - seems like SA isn't urgent, so if you're not up for going all the way with court you can avoid that stress by waiting. Or if you want to take a stand on it - do it. I know you've had a negative court experience before, but talk to your solicitor - I don't see how you could lose this application - almost grown up kids going to a mainstream destination with a family connection on top!

[Ellisandra]

Titchy, see my reply after yours - SA has very specific rules related to child abduction requiring permission from both parents.

[CredulousThickos]

If you have sole residency you don’t need his permission for SA. It’s only if there is joint residency or no court order.

[Onecallaway]

Yes are you sure you even need to get his permission?

[Miserylovescompany2]

I'd wait until the DC are adults and require no permission - this trip obviously means a great deal to you, would you consider doing it without the DC?

I'm sorry he's still pulling your strings

[MGKROCKS]

This isnt what you want to hear,but hay that's mumsnet,I'm sorry but I'd be horrified if my kids were being taken there regardless by whom.ive a friend who moved over here from there.she is desperate to get her mum over here,her parents are white and suffer horrendous racism ,and have guns on their property to protect themselves....that's all I know what she told me ,apart from what you see on the news...but that would enough for me to want mine to go.sorry .

[greenberet]

I get what you are saying about headspace - every single thing I do that has some connection to him I have to look at it all sides and see how he may react - I guess this is a legacy of an abusive relationship - I have spoken to Dd she thinks he may be thinking it's for October so I will get this cleared up.

This isn't going to end at 18 I'm not that stupid as long as he is in their lives this will continue - this isn't about them -this is about him and maintaining some control over me but yet again using them as pawns.

I can recall often being out shopping - seeing something I wanted to buy - knowing that he would say we could not afford it - knowing that this was one rule for him and another for me - he never asked my permission when he wanted to buy something but would always have a justification as to why he could do it- thinking do I get this and face the consequences - sometimes I would think just fuck it and go ahead other times I would put it back.

I see here it doesn't matter what the issue is - it's that I went through the process how is he going to react - and I am still know doing this - knowing that he will always come up with some 'plausible' reason why he says no which in isolation seems acceptable - but it's not in isolation is it - it's added all the times together knowing that there is a pattern knowing that there will never be a straightforward yes or no - this is what is the abuse

[MGKROCKS]

Not go

[greenberet]

I'm sorry but I really don't want to hear comments about why you would not want to go to SA - I know all this - I had an uncle that left for these reasons but this is a different part - nowhere is safe really these days - I know people who have been to Cape Town a lot and had no issues.

I know I need his permission -sa is really strict even if you are mum& dad travelling with your own kids - I have checked it out already and one of the main reasons I have not changed back to my maiden name as this would complicate it even more

[Quartz2208]

greenberet but the comments about SA are relevant - he has so totally gotten into your headspace that you feel this decision/any decision that he makes is entirely about stopping you/hurting you/controlling you and it works so well because that is your automatic reaction

Whereas actually here the fact it it could be as simple and straightforward as he does not feel SA is safe. I have many SA friends some of whom feel that they want to go back and visit but dont feel safe doing so