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Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Relationships

Can I get over that?

25 replies

PingoIsLost · 25/07/2017 08:14

DH is the kind or head in the sand person and absolutely hates any sort of confrontation.
That means that he will say YES to anything, regardless of whether he is actually happy or not not with the proposition just to avoid either to face the issue or say he disagrees.
Things where we have been having some 'sticking point' vary from needing to move the dcs from one particularly bad school to where to go on Sunday for a family day out. (So from the most serious to the most mundane stuff)
To start with I just took his answers as they were. He said YEs so surely that meant yes right?
Of course, when we did things as if his YES was a real YES, he was then most unhappy about it, cue for many days out where he was grumpy, annoyed and generally giving away a real atmosphere because actually he didn't want to be there.....
Then I learnt that actually no, a YES could well mean NO.

My issue though is that I've been burn so often by 'misunderstanding' his YES that I don't seem to be able to trust his answers anymore. So if he says 'Yes that would be good to do xxx', I feel on edge and expecting for things to go wrong. I feel I'm second guessing myself all the time and that's, in some ways, I can't trust him/what he says iyswim.

I'm not sure how to move form there tbh....

OP posts:
Shoxfordian · 25/07/2017 09:11

Have you spoken to him about this? I think you should explain that you don't mind if he says yes or no but that you're not a mind reader and he needs to be clearer. How do you react if he ever does say no to something?

Definitely needs a conversation

PingoIsLost · 25/07/2017 09:15

We've had PLENTY of conversations. Which have ended up with silence or a ... YES.....
Recently he has admitted that by putting his head in the sand, he is hoping that the issue will just go away.
Except that either it doesnt (and then we end up with an even more complex ting to solve) or I've let it go (and felt very hurt in the process).

Ive told him that numerous times with no avail

OP posts:
CaoNiMartacus · 25/07/2017 09:22

This sounds like a textbook case of passive-aggressive personality. There are some interesting articles online about it.

PingoIsLost · 25/07/2017 09:27

Yes he is PA.

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DonkeysDontRideBicycles · 25/07/2017 09:39

For some reason he thinks if he blurts out his real feelings you will get disappointed, angry, or unhappy and by saying what he believes you want to hear, he does it for your protection. In reality this is about protecting himself too.

Looking back, has he always done this?

Kr1stina · 25/07/2017 09:44

This behaviour is win win for him.

You get to do all the work organising things. You are anxious all the time and work really hard to guess what he wants and get it right so he isn't obnoxious and spoils things. You care all the time about his preferences and opinions, you are focused on his needs.

He, on the other hand, doesn't have to do anything.

If you guess right, he is happy and has contributed nothing. But you are so relieved that you have guessed right and so grateful to him for behaving like an adult and not a spoilt two year old.

If you guess wrong, he believes he's entitled to be an arse and you feel bad because it's YOUR FAULT yet again. He can work out all his anger and resentment on you without a shred of Guilt. Because these PA men have a LOT of anger to deal with.

So why would he change ? This behaviour works for him.

If you go for couselling, he will look like the easy going laid back one and you like the angry controlling one. When in fact it's the other way around .

Shoxfordian · 25/07/2017 09:44

As you have had conversations then this makes it very difficult

Maybe just say to him if he says yes to something then you expect him to mean it and then if he has an attitude or whatever about it then speak to him and say he agreed so you assumed he wanted to do it.

I would find this so difficult though

PingoIsLost · 25/07/2017 09:47

yes he has. It just took me a long time to realise it (hence all the hurts too because I did believe him when he said YES).

Ive tried to explain to him that actually I'm more unhappy and hurt when he says YES rather what he actually thinks, but it's not working...

I'm at the point now when I do not trust what he says TBH.
We have some big decisions to take atm but, as usual, he is totally uncommital. So nothing is done, no decisions taken, no discussion about what he would like/prefer. He doesn't seem to what to see that actually this could also break our relationship. Head in the sand again just hoping the issue will go away rather than facing potential problems....

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PingoIsLost · 25/07/2017 09:52

he will look like the easy going laid back one and you like the angry controlling one. When in fact it's the other way around

I have felt like this sooo much.
Like I was the crazy one who was getting upset and grumpy over nothing whilst he is the calm one who never get angry an is always controlled.

A good example is him telling me what he is landing to do (e.g. Away for the day for his hobby or for work). He will NOT ask if this is OK for me. Actually most of the time, he won't even tell me. Nope. The fact he is going away will be mentioned on the day so I can't say it is an inconvenience for me (and if I do, he will moan under his breath. Because of course, he will say up front that he is unhappy about the fact I'm stating it's inconvenient).

OP posts:
Kr1stina · 25/07/2017 11:31

He doesn't want to tell you what his plans are. He likes keeping you dangling, making sure that he's in control of you. That way he has all the power.

It's not about sticking his head in the sand. He's playing control games with you .

PingoIsLost · 25/07/2017 16:47

Ive been reading more about PA behaviour today.
I'm getting annoyed. I found so many excuses for him over the years. Compensated for so much and had to fight to do the few things that are really important to me.

Ive been unwell for a few years with ME. I couldn't think straight enough see it. Just firefighting and trying to exist took all my energy away. And he used that to his advantage. Instead of supporting me, he made things harder.
I think that now that I am getting better, I can see things for what they are. I can also fight back.

But I'm scared because I still can't work full time and have a full time income. I have two teens. I need to be able to keep a roof over their heads. (And no I have no hesitation that he will be a pain if I say we are getting divorced).

A few weeks ago, we had, again a 'conversation' with me saying his behaviour wasn't on. I stated that if he carried in, the relationhsip was going to be over. So he made an effort because obvioulsy that's scary enough for him to do something. I'm left even more hurt because that means that if he had wanted to, he would have been able to do it before. He didn't. He hurt me in lots of different ways instead. Angry

OP posts:
Shoxfordian · 25/07/2017 17:20

Sounds like you're coming to some decisions and you're realising you're unhappy with this relationship. I'd follow your instincts if they say to leave him because this relationship sounds unhealthy

Ruddygreattiger2016 · 25/07/2017 17:47

Sorry op, I couldn't live like this, what is the point??? You now realise if he wanted to make an effort he could have done over the years but he obviously couldn't be bothered. That would finish it for me as it clearly demonstrates his lack of care towards you. So sorry op Flowers

PingoIsLost · 25/07/2017 18:00

Oh Ive realised I was unhappy a long time ago.
But when you can't actually physically get up, go upstairs or read a page of a book, there is no way you can think clearly about that sort of stuff or find the energy necessary to look at divorce etc... I had no choice but to ride it out TBH.

What I am hesitating about atm is my energy level and whether I have enough ressources to get on about it. Or what can I do to make the next few months as ok as possible (and not be impossible to live with, for my own sake and the dcs) whilst I look after myself and get the energy to start separating.
I can't physically afford to go through a hell of a lot of stress, not be able to sleep etc... because that would mean I then can't work or be in a fit enough state to deal with the fall out iyswim. (I know by experience that one bad night of sleep will set me back and I will take a week or two to recover, in normal circumstances).
So I'm leaning towards staying for a few months so I can carry in building my energy levels and follow through wo collapsing completely at the end.

OP posts:
poweredbybread · 25/07/2017 19:59

Pingoslost this really resonates with me. Similar situation ( but 2 of our 3 children have severe/ chronic disabilities ) so really stuck. Married for a long time and always letting it go; but today something really awful happened and he just ran away. But for the first time I told him I could not forgive him for not taking responsibility. I have not asked for anything just told his this is so. Kristina oh my that statement was written for me. He is a really nice person but a man child. For me it is enough that he knows I am sooo disappointed with him. Down but not out. You are not alone pingoslost. Flowers

poweredbybread · 25/07/2017 20:26

I do think pingoslost that you may have to bide your time ( I am financially stuffed so can't go as kids carer etc ) until you are stronger as ME is so debilitating and then you may be stuffed and in worse position. Does it help to realise it's not you it's him?

PingoIsLost · 25/07/2017 20:37

It does.
What helps too see his behaviour atm. Chatty, talking to me, nearly been kind and attentionate when I have been begging him to do that for years and nothing ever happened.
THAT is angering me more than anything else.

Ive also taken notice of some small behaviours like expecting me to be ready right at the second he is when he was quite happy to me wait a few minutes before. Or proposing to do xxx and then expecting me to organise it. And when I didn't saying 'oh well we can stay at home if you prefer'. So making it my responsibility that we didn't do xxx just to avoid to actually take the responsibility for organising.

I think I need to do more reading to be able to spot all that. I'm too used to it now to see it every time.

And I WILL get better and plan my exit.

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PingoIsLost · 25/07/2017 20:38

power Flowers
It's crap to be stuck in that sort of situation. Do you think you can find some way out?

OP posts:
poweredbybread · 25/07/2017 21:14

Pingoslost my children are the reason my feet touch the floor every day. I am grateful that feels like enough. I am a qualified nurse but it's just so difficult for me to work now and I miss that. I can't tell you what a revelation today has been for me. There is so much about the whole passive aggressive behaviour that I see in him. I have thought everything was my fault forever for not getting it right. I feel stupid even saying that as we have been married for so long. I see myself as a sensible resourceful problem solver. Take everything on for everyone. Very broad shoulders. Want to help people. Feel totally stupid now. But I don't have ME so think that is a really big biggie. I hope you can sort out how to manage the situation / move on in manageable chunks allowing for variability. The fact that you feel positive that you can do this is good. Smile

poweredbybread · 26/07/2017 08:02

How are you doing Pingoslist ?

poweredbybread · 26/07/2017 08:03

Sorry Pingoslost !

PingoIsLost · 26/07/2017 10:58

I'm OK thank you.
I think I have sort of taken the decision that enough is enough.
The last couple of days when H has been all nice, talking to me, communicating (like a normal person) has shown me that he CAN do that. It's just that he chose not to before.
We went out for meal wo the dcs yesterday and instead of the silent sullen guy who wouldn't give more than a two word answer, I had someone who actually shared his day and some of his thoughts. Nothing out of this world but it's so much more than he has ever done in last what?.... 10 years? Maybe more, that the contrast is staggering.
I'm not sure I can forgive him just for that.

At the same time, having taken that decision, I feel lighter and more relaxed. I'm expecting nothing anymore and I feel I can finally plan my life for the next few years.

My plan is now to read more about PA behaviour whilst on hols so I know how to handle that with him (and I know how to handle it with the dcs who are showing the same behaviours .... monkey sees, monkey does....).
Ill carry on with looking after myself.
And I need to sort out any steps I need in readiness for the 'D day' so everything is in order on my side - well as much as I can. I need to avoid the rushing around, stressed out period as much as possible. So all the financial stuff, how to claim an possible benefits etc etc. I hope that doing that over a few months rather than a few weeks will make it manageable.

It's strange, I didn't think this is where I would end when I started this thread!

OP posts:

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poweredbybread · 26/07/2017 11:36

Pingoslost I am glad you replied as I felt guilty for hijacking your post and haven't been on mumsnet long so don't know how to private message on a mobile. In real life I have a very wise friend who is in this field so blurted it all out by text yesterday. She quite rightly said that even if you try and confront the PA person they can't see it it's another thing that is wrong with you and all gets twisted etc etc. I too feel lighter and am not doing anything in haste. It defo seems like you knowing what it is has helped. It's not you it's definitely him. I am reading too... am so grateful for Kristina to have responded in the way she did.

PingoIsLost · 26/07/2017 11:58

DONT feel bad about high jacking. I think we all learn as much from what other people say than From direct advice.

Yes very grateful for that comment. Ive always know that H has PA ways (as we all do sometime to time). But reading about it again suddenly made everything so clear!

I agree about not confronting. Ive learnt that a long time ago and found ways to get around it instead (being completely passive and uninvolved seem to work)

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hellsbellsmelons · 26/07/2017 12:27

I didn't think this is where I would end when I started this thread!
It's amazing what writing it down can do.
The clarity that hits you.
Keep working on yourself and your strength and you'll get to where you want to be. No need to rush into anything right now.

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