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Would you class this as 'violent' behaviour?

(22 Posts)
mikado1 Fri 21-Apr-17 13:33:30

Or is it 'just aggressive'?

Slamming doors, banging furniture around, kicking a toy on the floor that's not in the way as you walk past?

This type of thing wrecks my head but could happen on a weekly basis. I just stood up and closed the door to it but door was swung back open! hmm

Puddington Fri 21-Apr-17 13:40:42

I think it's aggressive AND violent, but not 'just' either of those sad Sorry OP. Is this person violent in other ways (verbally etc)? Has this been going on for a long time? I know I'd be constantly on edge if someone was acting like that around me.

BertrandRussell Fri 21-Apr-17 13:42:16

It's very aggressive and potentially violent. Does he shout at you, OP?

AttilaTheMeerkat Fri 21-Apr-17 13:46:38

mikado1

What do you get out of this relationship now?.

The only acceptable level of abuse within a relationship is none.

All that you have written, particularly the first two, can be classed as domestic violence within the household.

mikado1 Fri 21-Apr-17 14:30:48

My 'just aggressive' was tongue in cheek really. He probably would shout if I Saud something while it's happening but I just ignore for the most part. He would prob say he's doing it in a bid not to shout. Low tolerance level and this is what happens when stressed. He has shouted at ds (5) at least 3 times today sad

What I get is a husband who is overall v supportive, particularly on a practical level, my DPs are not at all well at mo and he's doing everything. But this is not new behaviour and it's something we've spoken about before. It seems small I suppose in some ways but I actually find it really sad when it happens. He's usually at work all day and this is what happens on a rare free day.

AttilaTheMeerkat Fri 21-Apr-17 14:48:31

What does ignoring it do though; has that really become your coping mechanism?. What message does that send your child as well?. You want him to become a carbon copy of his dad whilst his mother seemingly does nothing?.

I am wondering if you are a people pleaser as well because if you are that is a problem in its own right.

I remember you from before Mikado; he is the one who himself has a controlling dad. Unfortunately your H did not fall far from the rotten tree that is his own family of origin. He learnt a lot of damaging stuff from his parents, particularly his dad, and now you are all copping that crap from him.

Its no life for you or your child. You have a choice re this man; your son does not.

How is he supportive to you practically?. He sounds really like he is neither of use nor ornament.

What do you want going forward; can you see yourself actually separating from your H?. Is this really what you want for yourself and your child?. After all he has been shouted at on numerous occasions today. Is this really what you want to teach your child about relationships?.

mikado1 Fri 21-Apr-17 14:57:03

Thank you for posting again. You are right I am a complete pleaser. Tbh I thought an ultimatum would have done the trick-he's over 6m in counselling now..

Practically he does the bulk of the housework, all the DIY, his share of childcare. With both DPs unwell I have had to lean on him a lot and he's been extremely kind. It's bloody hard but no I don't want any of what you've said. I suppose I ignore to take away any power from it so I show him I'm not threatened. In the past I probably would have asked him repeatedly I'd he was ok/tried to cheer him up/been relieved when he came round.

EasyToEatTiger Fri 21-Apr-17 16:03:53

It's very childish and in an adult you would call it passive aggression. It's a way of getting noticed and communicating frustration and anger without having to say anything.

So, yes, it is aggressive behaviour, and you may find other controlling behaviours which accompany it. My husband used to sulk for Britain, filling the room with his filthy mood. Naturally this kind of thing came along with endless criticism, contempt, stonewalling behaviour and relentless self-defence. His behaviour has improved since he started taking pills for depression.

mikado1 Fri 21-Apr-17 20:13:54

You've described it really well EasyToEatTiger, although I don't get the contempt or criticism (not in words anyway). Interesting that anti-depressants have helped - does he actually express the feelings now or just not as easily annoyed?

KickAssAngel Fri 21-Apr-17 20:19:25

So does he act like this at work? To his parents? To friends in the pub?

Because he's choosing to act like this at home because he thinks he can get away with it and bully all of you.

EasyToEatTiger Fri 21-Apr-17 20:40:01

It was one of my dcs who flagged up the crap relationship of her parents. It took a looong time for me to realise that my husband's behaviour was nothing short of horrible. There has been a lot of pressure over the years. My husband has been depressed and frankly he is nasty with it. At least now he is being treated for his gloom he is less unpleasant. He is easier to talk to and slightly less defensive. He doesn't yet take responsibility for his shitty behaviour.
If you can find help for yourself, please tap into it. Your gp may be able to help. Gps are really stuck in the CBT method, which I can see may have benefits. Otherwise, it is teaching the obvious to the uninitiated.

BertieBotts Fri 21-Apr-17 20:42:27

Yes it is violent. It's also a known precursor to violence directed at people or animals (animals are sometimes a step in between.)

Does he think it's acceptable or does he recognise it's a problem?

mikado1 Fri 21-Apr-17 20:48:32

He is in counselling Bertie, but 6m on I don't see a huge improvement so I am wondering if medication might help or if it's appropriate. He thinkd he's improved but 'human'. He doesn't behave like this at work the majority of the time, I'd say he can definitely be moody though. He's come in to rearrange the (tidied away) toys on the shelf..

KickAssAngel Fri 21-Apr-17 20:52:51

If it's only directed at one person/group rather than someone who has outbursts they can't control, then it anger management will do no good. He has complete control over it, and is using his family to make himself feel big.

mikado1 Fri 21-Apr-17 21:18:52

I don't think he has complete control.. e.g. I think if we'd left before his banging around today that it would still have happened. Ds (5) can certainly push his buttons are while it's not his fault as the child, there aren't equivalent situations outsude the home but if he was being similarly wound up, no I don't think he'd control it very well. The other thing that drives him batty is tidiness so again, not replicated elsewhere iyswim.

KickAssAngel Fri 21-Apr-17 22:12:24

Does he work? Are there no colleagues who push his buttons & make him do this? Does he never end up in an untidy place and get this angry? Sorry, but he is using it as a way to control you. The fact that it happens if you're out, but you know that, shows how much he makes sure you're aware of his anger and have to live your lives around it.

Having a 5 year old does not excuse it - otherwise ALL parents would act like this, and they don't. So he can grow up and act like a parent, not a bully. (I had a 5 year old with Asperger''s and a hugely stressful job that left me with panic attacks. I never used that as an excuse to yell at my child, btw.)

mikado1 Fri 21-Apr-17 22:27:13

And I agree with you, and I am good on self control/tolerance myself but he's not. I am not defending but do want to give a fair picture. Tbh I dont know if it makes a big difference either way, the end result us the same-shouting at some stage each week - maybe just a roar or two not a rant, banging around when things are untidy..

Has been told father's anger and aggression is reason for it.

RiceCrispieTreats Fri 21-Apr-17 22:45:53

It doesn't matter what his behaviour can be "classed" as.

What matters is whether it is behaviour that you are willing to accept, or not.

You are entitled to set your limits wherever feels right for you.

BertieBotts Sat 22-Apr-17 00:11:31

There are really two parts to violent or controlling behaviour which can tell you about how much of a problem it (potentially) is.

The first is where the person believes their behaviour falls on a scale from "no big deal/totally normal necessary part of life" to "everyone does that sometimes (but not every day)" to "I didn't handle that very well" to "oh god I've overdone it" to "OMG I can't believe I did/said that (or if hypothetical: I would never ever do that)". It sounds like your DH is probably putting his outbursts somewhere around the second category, while acting like it belongs in the first category (because he's letting it happen multiple times a week). And really it needs to be in one of the top three.

If he genuinely sees it as a normal behaviour, then he's not likely to put much effort into toning it down, because he won't see the point. Or, perhaps if he's already toned it down from something he considers worse he might be wondering what all the fuss is about. (Change takes a lot of work.) And yes, if he's grown up seeing aggression and violence happening several times a week as normal then this is very likely where that belief has come from and it is difficult to shift that, especially if he's not open to seeing a different way or if he thinks that his behaviour is okay because not as bad as his dad's. You might want to ask him if he wants your DS to grow up with his current behaviour as his perception of a normal reaction to stress. (You might want to ask yourself the same, BTW.) It could be a useful exercise to go through what are examples of stress-response behaviours for each category on the scale and compare your ideas.

The second is whether the person believes that what they are reacting to is a justified reason to reach the level of response that they have given. Some level of anger, shouting, even force or violence is sometimes justified in a crisis - for example you might shout if you saw your DS doing something dangerous (to startle him into stopping or even just out of fear), use violence to defend yourself if you needed to, or you might react unpredictably if you found out your partner had cheated or something like that. These are human behaviours, but usually we need to be very pushed before we engage in them. The way you'd shout when your DS is in danger is different to the way you might raise your voice in frustration because he won't put on his shoes.

Sometimes people with problems with aggression can have skewed expectations that they can't cope with not being met. For example, if he genuinely believes that you should be able to keep the house tidy at all times then he may genuinely feel so frustrated that it isn't happening, and think that a crisis response is necessary or the only tool available to him. Likewise, children's behaviours can push their parents into behaviours that they regret through frustration or lack of knowledge as to how to deal with the situation. It's not only the response that he needs to evaluate, it's the situation (and expectations) and you might need to look at these together and reevaluate whether you actually want the same things.

I wonder would your DH take a parenting class? Perhaps having some new tools to help him manage DS's behaviour would lead him to be less likely to resort to the blunt tools of anger and control. For the other situations, another approach might be necessary, but recognising that children really can push our buttons would be an immediate way to perhaps mitigate some of the effects on your DS.

BertieBotts Sat 22-Apr-17 00:15:45

Forgot to add - if he recognises his behaviour is in the less acceptable category then it may be a wake up call to note how often it's happening, and if he recognises that a 5 year old's behaviour and a messy house are not worthy of crisis responses then, again, it may help. But these changes and this motivation have to come from him.

I am getting somewhat of a sense that either he or you or both are feeling like counselling should have been a magic fix for everything, but six months is a relatively short time, and it's likely a lot of work will be needed, especially if it's likely this stems from childhood. But I think the parenting class could take a lot of the pressure off if he's open to trying it. And ultimately you need to decide how long you're willing to wait because change takes so much time and work.

Neverknowing Sat 22-Apr-17 00:28:27

I'd say it is violent. To me it would feel almost like a threat? one of the reasons I broke up with my ex was because he punched a wall while we were having an argument and it scared the shit out of me, I thought he was going to hit me.

mikado1 Sun 23-Apr-17 07:42:26

Thank you for replies and thank you BertieBotts for all that food for thought. I know counselling's not a magic cure but it is frustrating when e.g. we discuss what to when DS does X and the next day I hear a roar when it happens. DS definitely likes to push buttons and any reaction is better thsn none so it's not even remotely effective on top of being upsetting. I will have to try to discuss. Again.

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