Are we better off alone?

[darknessontheedgeoftown]

I sometimes wonder if men and women aren't meant to be together not in the marriage children forever sense anyway. It isn't compulsory to be together and there are so so many complications. I sometimes think just stay alone and try to be kind.. I'm probably wrong..I usually am.

[pallasathena]

I've thought the same as you for a very long time so no, you're not alone! Relationships can become so all consuming and with a certain type of man, unhappy and difficult.
In fact, I see more and more unhappiness these days in relationships where the woman is doing everything, physically, emotionally, financially and the men are presenting as immature twats who are so self entitled its beyond belief.
In my own personal friendship/family group currently, there's only myself and my next door neighbour who appear to have healthy marriages based upon mutual respect, love and kindness.
Something has happened to society in the last few years...

[Zaphodsotherhead]

I am thinking that a more natural relationship is not to live with the man, but have more distance. Of course, you'd have to trust them not to go off and find another woman keen (at first) to wash their skiddies and cook for them, but it works for me. A little absence making the heart fonder. But then I'm older and my kids have left home, but then I brought them up mostly alone too!

[CaoNiMa]

The modern nuclear family is a purely social and economic construct, mainly benefiting men.

[EssieTregowan]

I've had several shit relationships, an abusive marriage, been a single parent and now I've been with lovely DH for ten years.

I was quite happy being single, and it's only because DH is so special that I was prepared to build a life with him. I think so long as your standards are high and you don't settle for the first bloke that comes along, it's possible to have a mutually fulfilling relationship. For me, it's better than being single, but if the worst ever happened I'd stay single forever as I can't imagine finding a match equal to DH.

[category12]

I am happier on my own. I see someone, so have the good bits without all the drudgery and lies.

[SheFeedsYouTeaAndOranges]

Cao absolutely. It's nothing to do with being beneficial for children etc.

[Zaphodsotherhead]

Worst bit of being alone though is the economics of running a household. Paying all the bills single handed (I'm still maintaining the family home as two children still at uni need somewhere to come back to) is crippling me. But I was appalled at how many people told me to move in with my man as a way to help ease the financial load - it's the fucking twenty first century! I should NOT have to live with a man simply to pay the bills.

[cafesociety]

I am definitely better off alone, and made my decision years ago. I will no longer risk my mental health, walk on eggshells, give up the freedom to be myself, constantly compromise only to be let down yet again. Time and time again.

But I'm older and only accountable to myself, have a grown up family. I am independent but I agree financially it's harder to pay for everything year in, year out with no help whatsoever. But I happily pay that price, it's worth every penny. I care more about being in good health.

[Bct23]

Financially it is usually better to be part of a couple. Mentality is another matter!

[StripeyCover]

In fact, I see more and more unhappiness these days in relationships where the woman is doing everything, physically, emotionally, financially

Pallasathena why do you think this is? My mother maintains that men treat women worse these days, there is less chivalry and respect. Also women seem more desperate to have a man. I'm not sure if the two are connected? Anyway what do you think?

Zapho, its just basic economics, I don't think people are trying to be anti-women. Two people living in one house is just cutting costs. I've never done it myself but I could half-understand people suggesting that. Even Germaine Greer has said a working class man can be caterpulted into the lower middle class property-owning democracy by marrying. Two incomes you see. Though having children changes that again!

I'm not a big fan of living with a man. Especially in the tiny little flats and houses we are forced to live in these days. I agree with Zapho's other point about a bit of distance! Of course love's young dream might mitigate against that in youth. But after that, a strong kind of woman with her own rhythms might enjoy just a little more space ... I suppose in the old days men used to go down to their sheds or the pub, but there are less and less of these!

[StripeyCover]

Not trying to be flippant though. It genuinely concerns me that women could be being treated worse... Certainly women seem to be more sexually disposable, which annoys me. But I don't really understand why they are ending up doing so much, are so stressed and tired, and the youngest ones having eating disorders and cutting themselves. Its bloody ridiculous.

[IneedmoreLemonPledge]

I think I'd go way back to separate mud huts, and a few drunken mating rituals round a camp fire.


But my judgement might be rattled by arsehole STBEXH cockodger.

Society has created such a negative view of the single woman. I was discussing this with friends the other night:

Single men = bachelor, bachelor pad, untameable, James Bond type

Single women = spinster (what a bloody word), crazy cat lady, desperate, sad.

FWIW I loved being bloody single. I found a lot of pressure and head tilting conversations around the " aw haven't you found a man yet...?" questions.

[pallasathena]

Why do I think its like this? Hugely complicated and linked to the still unfolding sociological changes of the 21st Century where instead of 'Having it all', we, mostly women, seem to be 'Doing it all'.
Life has become more brutal, more hard and more and more men are looking for women who can completely look after them and this includes financially.
(I need to add here that this is my personal experience with a wide circle of friends, family and colleagues.)
A role reversal has somehow taken place but instead of feelings of gratitude for being looked after from these men, I see them become more and more controlling and entitled and sulky and careless with the family finances.
And petulant if they don't get their own way.
Equally, there's a very large swathe of women desperate for a grown up life of marriage, mortgage and kids who often 'settle', for a partner out of fear and desperation rather than real love. Its a recipe for disaster.
Its also very, very sad.

[user1486059507]

Thank you pallasathena for your response. MN deleted my account because I broke some guideline I believe - religious I think as I posted something spiritual/religious/christian, but I'm only guessing as they didn't bother contacting me. Just wiped it out. I won't be posting here again after this.

Anyway, only came back to say thank you for your response and answering my question (as StripeyCover). Your heartfelt and intelligent post. I haven't any other points to make as I honestly don't understand what is going on myself. Plus also appreciated Lemon Pledge's contribution, I know where you're coming from.

[Bct23]

Pall- Such a huge generalisation there. There are many women who choose their man for financial reasons and want "looking after"

[ForalltheSaints]

I think that some people are better off as a single person. Society does not seem to judge them positively, unless perhaps they are single after being widowed.

[schlong]

No 2 people are meant to be together forever in cloying domestic oppression AFAIC. Don't reckon it's male/female antagonism as such. I much prefer living alone with my dc even though the financial aspect is trickier.

[BitchQueen90]

I'm happy alone. I'm not interested in living with a partner. I have someone I see every couple of weeks, he lives in a different city so we're not in each others' hair all the time. I get all the fun without the added stresses and drudgery a real relationship can bring.

I'm an only child and am used to my own company, I enjoy it. Not a cuddly lovey dovey person either. I like being independent and not having to share finances, consider anyone else's feelings, make compromises, etc. Maybe I'm selfish in that respect, but I'm happy.

Some people have wonderful marriages and relationships and that's great. But nobody should feel pressured into it just for the sake of what's traditional or what society thinks.

[meltownmary]

I am older, no kids to worry about. Never married my DP, together many years now and still going strong.

We don't live together full time. We have separate houses both owned outright and the setup suits us to a T. DP has many hobbies that would drive me to distraction around my own little nest, and I love my garden DP thinks that is wasting valuable space that could be put to the use of his hobby!

Now I realise it's unconventional. We split the week up and see each other say 3 times a week overnight and on Saturday nights/Sunday. We alternate houses for this, so neither of us does all the work!

I wonder what you think? My family is constantly on my case to sell up and move in together, what are you waiting for, are you both not committed or what? And so on and so forth.

I don't care we are both happy as it is. Remember we hooked up when we were older (late forties). It works for us.

We were both single up to meeting each other if that makes a difference.

[meltownmary]

@BitchQueen90

Exactly.

Everyone is different, although convention says two people in a committed relationship have to live together.

Different obv if there are young children in the mix, but if not, independence and freedom together with a good loving relationship is workable too.

[IneedmoreLemonPledge]

meltownmary that sounds ideal to me. Houses next door would be perfection.

My DP is hobby mad too, and invents things like a mad professor.

[meltownmary]

@IneedmoreLemonPledge

Must be related to my mad fella so!

[darknessontheedgeoftown]

The thing that stands out about thesex comments is the neediness of many men who people have come across, & the significant financial penalties of being a single income household. Interesting for me to read as I'm a single man. I've been giving this a lot of thought recently and wonder if especially in London/SE, there has been a perfect storm over the last few years into which some men have wilfully waded. I mean that the male identity doesn't seem to have evolved much beyond breadwinner, watch sport,drink. At the same time housing has become prohibitive and jobs utterly precarious. A number of women, used perhaps to economic shape-shifting due to divorce/children/general life have adapted quite well to the newer economy whereas men, in their entitlement cave, haven't and lash out at anyone for taking away their birthright, hence Trump. I wonder if the future for male female relationships is perhaps for men to think of "selling themselves" in the relationship market more along the lines of being good company, good and competent housekeepers willing and able to run a household, and good and caring fathers, whether or not the children are biologically theirs?

[SheFeedsYouTeaAndOranges]

I mean that the male identity doesn't seem to have evolved much beyond breadwinner, watch sport,drink.

I think you're pretty much spot on with your last post.

Over the past few decades, women have become more financially, socially and professionally independent and have less 'need' on a man in their lives (speaking from a totally heteronormative perspective here for the purposes of this particular discussion). Having done so, we now seek 'equality' in our relationships in a way that in the past we might have been required to seek someone to provide for an protect us.

The result is frustration for women who are seeking 'a real man' in terms of one who expects to do their fair share of housework and childrearing, one who doesn't think it's weak to discuss their emotions and one who presents as a fully functioning human, and frustration for men who feel angry that their natural and inherent 'superiority' as Men is no longer recognised/respected, thus giving rise to the MRA stuff.

Many men want to emulate the relationship model that they saw growing up - Dad goes to work, goes out with his mates, does what he likes with no questions asked, while The Wife stays at home, knows her place, keeps quiet and lets him have his space. And this basic model was seen at all levels of society.

Whereas women are actively seeking to break free from this and create an new egalitarian relationship model.

Until men in general accept that this has changed and realise the benefits of the new model, then I don't think relationships between men and women will work.