CMS / maintenance / self employed etc advice

[writingsonthewall]

This may be long, bear with me. Any advice gratefully received.

I went through the CMS a couple of years ago as my ExH was amending his maintenance payments up and down monthly depending on his mood and I needed the stability of knowing how much I was going to get each month. He has always had his own business so I knew there was a risk he could massage his salary to suit but as at that stage he also had a salaried (PAYE) role I decided it was a risk worth taking for peace of mind.

In April of last year he left his salaried role to focus solely on his own business. At that stage I half expected the maintenance payments to change but never heard anything and continued to get what he had been paying (£380pm for 2 children). The annual review is in March so I knew that there was a potential the amount could go down then.

I received a letter from the CMS last week telling me that from 5 May 2016 his gross weekly income is now £58 per week and therefore from 5 May 2016 I should receive the princely sum of £7 per week in maintenance payments. Therefore by my calculations he has “overpaid” by around £350pcm for the last 9 months (total £3,150). Given his payment amount is now apparently £28pcm I am to receive nothing at all for over 2 years.

This is obviously a huge shock, not least because his salary is clearly not going to be £58 per week. I rely on the money I receive from him in order to pay for everything required for 2 young children. It doesn’t cover half even at £380 per month but that’s by the by.

I text my ExH (very acrimonious relationship), and asked him what was going on, he said that he had submitted some paperwork to them back in April (when he changed jobs), but they said nothing was done at that stage so he doesn’t know what’s going on. He said he called them up and they said that he shouldn’t pay anything until March when the annual review is due because he’s overpaid but they apparently wouldn’t tell him by how much he has overpaid.

I called them myself and asked if he had submitted paperwork to prove a change in salary in April, why hadn’t the payments been changed then? They couldn’t answer me. I also asked how on earth his salary could be £58 per week since May if he has been paying me £95 per week in that period. They couldn’t answer that either. Really not sure where to go from here, I can’t get any sense out of them.

I guess if he is lying about his salary to the HMRC then there is nothing CMS can do, his wife works with him so I guess he could just pay her all the salary and pay himself nothing to get out of paying CMS? Is there anything I can do about this? Is it perfectly legal and therefore not even tax evasion. I think most of his clients would pay via cheque or bank transfer so don’t think he can be getting too much cash in hand work. His businesses FB page shows evidence of a thriving business.

I’m so angry that he has potentially played the system like this – and is of course hiding behind the CMS (my fault for going to them in the first place obviously), and says he’s overpaid so clearly only fair to pay nothing now.

Any advice or is this yet another thing I have to suck up, and carry on smiling gaily while I pack them off to this no good bastard once a month for the weekend as he’s “too busy working” to have them any more than that, whilst I juggle a full time job and looking after them with all that entails. His pay must be about 20p per hour if he earns as little as he says while working the hours he says.

[donners312]

what a bastard!

But tbh in my experience you will have to suck it up because the system is a joke.

My ex pays no maintenance at all and never sees the children so like you i have to do 100% of the looking after and pay for everything as well.

Meanwhile he refuses to work (doesn't have to and spends his whole time on holiday boasting about which champagne he is drinking) but there is nothing you can do.

If a man is determined to evade his responsibilities then there is nothing you can do.

I am sure you are doing a great job!! but it is grossly unfair!

[QuiteLikely5]

I would honestky seek legal advice and go after him.

I wish MNHQ would take this issue to government it really needs some serious attention.

[writingsonthewall]

Thanks both. I feared that may be the case. To be honest though I am angry enough to keep going on about this, to the CMS, to the HMRC, to anyone who will listen so yes I think I will seek legal advice. Should I just go to any old family lawyer or is there a special kind?

[donners312]

TBH I went to see 3 different lawyers last week i have so much evidence of my ex on 5* holidays and he has now refused to work for 18 months os he doesn't have to pay any maintenance and there is nothing i can do - it is disgusting!

If you go about your personal circumstances go and see a sol who will see you for free.

There was a mumsnetter who ran a petition to get parents who evade CM get charged with child neglect? it has probably expired now. i have also thought about going to see my MP? But i just keep hearing the same thing but i still find it hard to accept.

[writingsonthewall]

That is bloody awful donners. Even worse that he is so well off he can afford not to work!!!! I'm even more pissed off on your behalf than I am at my own situation. I would definitely push forward with seeing the MP - I know how stressful and wearing it is hearing the same thing but I need to push as hard as I can on this - to try and change things for people in the future to stop these bastards.

[writingsonthewall]

Just thought, doesn't he even get income in the form of interest payments? Doesn't that count?

[Atticmatic]

same as donners I have all the responsibility and no maintenance. 7 years now.

My ex is self employed. Stopped paying one year after seperation, stopped paying into a bank account, refused to co-operate with CSA. I kept on and on but nothing happened. I just have to cope.

I hope you get a better outcome.

[EmilyRosanne]

I am facing the same issue and this thread doesn't give me much hope! I was hoping ex would be a good dad and set up CM on his own (also self employed) but whilst he seemingly is so busy and always at work he apparently has no money but I just know if I apply through CMS that he will minimise his earnings and pay next to nothing. A lot is cash in hand so he could easily do this. These men are awful how could you live with yourself knowing your children are going without

[writingsonthewall]

I'm really not sure Emily. I guess in my case, my exH knows that my children won't be going without, as I do earn enough to feed and clothe them myself - it'll be me that's going without any extras or treats, and I imagine that's a scenario he's very keen on - wanker

[writingsonthewall]

Just to add, I know I'm lucky that I can manage on my own. I know others can't and my heart does really go out to them. These arseholes should be punished somehow.

[donners312]

Thanks writing - no interest as he has not even one single penny in his name, bit like your ex lying his salary to his wife.

If they don't have a conscience and don't care about their children there is nothing you ca do.

Well done for being such a superwoman and doing it all yourself just focus on that - think of the times with your children as treats, it won't last forever and you can never get that time back (frustrating i knows hen you see all your friends go out or on holiday and you can't - I know!!)

[donners312]

paying his salary i mean

[Racmactac]

Apply for a variation. On the grounds he is diverting income.

[Pooky77]

Do you know if your exes business is a limited company? If so it's possible that he is paying himself a very small salary under PAYE and is taking the rest of his income via dividend which should be taxed under self assessment and perhaps has not been taken into account by CMS?

If you know the company name you can search for his accounts at companies house for free now and see if you can prove he has other income this way.

[writingsonthewall]

I don't actually know what he is doing, dividends or diverting income or whatever, but I just know there's no way in the world he earns £58 per week!

He's just had a lavish wedding and a honeymoon in the Indian Ocean!

I'm not sure if his company is limited. I've googled it on companies house but can't find it so guess not?

[writingsonthewall]

Sucks donners, it really does

[Racmactac]

Phone cms and tell them you wish to apply for a variation and they have to send you a form

[writingsonthewall]

Ok will do - thanks for your help

[writingsonthewall]

Actually, Just reviews my shoddy maths and it's actually six years lll get nothing for

[Heatherjayne1972]

What's a variation
Following interestedly as I'm in a similar position

[smilingeyes79]

Ask for a Madatory Reconsideration (needs to be done within a month if decision) if MR is not successful (which it probably won't be) you can appeal at the same time as requesting a variation based on living passed the means in which he has declared .... its a long slog but maybe something will come up.
Going to your MP can only help if due process hasn't taken place

[ladylambkin]

Sorry to hear this op...call HMRC tax evasion and report him. Morally these men should be facing their responsibilities ... you think you know someone then they do this

[Stripyhoglets]

I think if there's evidence they are living above their alleged income. Lifestyle not consistent with declared earnings - then there is something you can do.

[HollyMay84]

Coming from the other side of this. My dp pays csa and is self employed. In the last letter he got from them which was only a couple of months ago they have said that they will now go by the amount given to them by hmrc after every tax year. As he could not give a definite amount each month due to expenses etc.
Maybe come April they will recalculate it once they've checked with hmrc op?

I agree the whole system is screwed up and caused nothing but trouble for my dp and his ex.

Ladylambkin it's probably pointless reporting him because he is more than likely paying tax, therefore legally he's doing nothing wrong.

Morally however if he's stating he only gets paid 58 quid a week just for your dc to miss out then yes it's messed up and completely wrong. Unfortunately there's no punishment for lack of morales

Hope something gets sorted for you soon op

[Huskylover1]

This is so frustrating. Unfortunately, the people at CMS seem to be thick! My ExH convinced them that he earned £31k, when he in fact earns £132k! When doing one review, he avoided their calls, so they went straight to HMRC for his salary - this revealed it to be £132k, however, they refuse to consider that he would have been on a similar salary the year before/after, despite having no change in role. He produced pay slips for non-bonus months. I pointed this out, but they still chose to believe him, even knowing that he previously lied. They see nothing alarming, that in 2014 he earned £132k, and that in 2015 he earned £31k. I mean, WTAF!

Anyway, you need to complain. They won't resolve it, so you then need to refer your case to the Independant Case Examiner (PO Box 209, Bootle L20 7WA). You can only do this, once CMS have told you that your complaint is not upheld and that you should contact ICE. I have just sent mine in this week. If ICE doesn't uphold your complaint you go to your MP and the Ombudsman.

I suspect that the salary he tells his mortgage provider differs wildly from the salary he admits to HMRC and CMS. No idea what you can do about this. I have asked CMS to get ExH salary info directly from HMRC, and they flat out refuse.