Lies

[Myfathersglove]

NC for this, I'm in pieces, I know what I have to do but guess I need validation. DH has lied before, not about anything massively bad just stupid lies to cover his arse when he's done something he knows I might not be happy about. I have a real aversion to lies and liars, I hate that feeling that I'm being/have been deceived to the point it makes me feel sick with anger. I think my reaction does border on extreme/unreasonable, I can't trace it back to a particular incident, all I know is that it makes me feel stupid and humiliated and I struggle with those feelings.

So I found out last night he has lied again, I told him last time if it happened once more that would be the end of us and still he's done it again. The thing he's lied about doesn't matter, it would have been no big deal if he'd come and spoken to me about it, it's the lie I'm upset about. I've told him over and over there's nothing he can tell me that would be as bad as lying, that I will do my best to work through anything as long as he's honest with me. I've been utterly consistent, the only real deal breakers in our marriage are lying and cheating, he knows that and I don't think I'm asking too much.

It took months last time for me to get anywhere close to trusting him again, it turned me into a paranoid mess and I don't like the person I become when I feel like that. I really thought he finally understood, that I'd convinced him he could tell me anything and I wouldn't react badly just as long as he was honest.

I don't understand why he's done it, there is no logical reason I can see. He says he did it to protect me but I honestly can't see why he thought I needed protecting, it wasn't anything I couldn't handle perfectly well and I truly can't see why he thought otherwise. If that really was the justification he used in his own mind I find it totally arrogant that he thought he had the right to decide for me that I couldn't handle it and I'm not sure whether that isn't just as bad as my alternative theory, which is that he just likes having secrets, gets some kind of kick out of sneaking around and keeping things from me.

The arrogance option makes me angry but the idea that he likes sneaking around makes me feel utterly humiliated. I know I react badly to that feeling, probably more so than the average person but I can't tell if that means I over react or whether it's a relatively 'normal' response to feeling I've been taken for a mug.

I think I have to end it, I don't think I can face trying to rebuild trust again and, if I give him yet another chance, it feels like I'm giving him permission to do it again because I said last time it would be the end if he lied again. But the thing he lied about is stupid and inconsequential and, in itself, is a stupid reason to blow our lives (and our child's) apart. So, tell me honestly, is my reaction to being lied to out of proportion? Is this abject fear of being humiliated making this seem a bigger deal to me than it actually is? Please help me get some perspective, I'm sorry this is so long.

[amypie86]

What did he lie about? Without knowing that it's hard to say.

[SandyY2K]

He says he did it to protect me

I was also wondering why

You already told him it would be the end if he lied again. He ignored that and that in itself is bad.

Everyone tells lies at some point, but it really depends on how much you feel this repeatedly lying violates your trust and the fact that you were clear about the consequences of him lying.

If you stay with him, your word will no longer be taken seriously.

At the very least if you have a formal seperation, he should realise you're not joking and this could be the last of his lies.

You have to look at your entire marriage and see what's best for you.

[adora1]

Do not underestimate the emotional anxiety a liar can cause you, whether it's about small things or not, it's showing you a complete lack of respect and also how can you trust someone that lies, it's just not possible, it also makes you feel and look stupid, especially if others are in on it and you are not.

Sorry but I think you are right here, I don't think he ever stopped lying and will not stop.

[Myfathersglove]

I don't want to say because it's really identifying but it honestly wasn't anything he had reason to hide from me. It's not something I would have had cause to be annoyed about but was something we really should have discussed rather than him making a unilateral decision, nothing private or personal and it would have affected me indirectly so I really should have had a say.

[Myfathersglove]

Sandy, that's the thing, I feel the lying totally violates my trust and I've made that completely clear, that's why I feel so betrayed and confused as to why he would do it when the thing he lied about really doesn't matter. It feels like he's heard everything I've said about how lying makes me feel and how important honesty is to me and then ignored it anyway and deliberately trampled all over my feelings.

Trouble is the marriage is otherwise great, we support each other, make each other laugh, are close and loving and coparent really well together, that's why I'm struggling so much about blowing it all apart over this one issue.

[Myfathersglove]

adora, yes that's it, it does make me incredibly anxious and paranoid, constantly wary and on my guard. I just don't understand why he does it.

[DrMorbius]

Apologies if this sounds a bit blunt. I told him last time if it happened once more that would be the end of us

What are your options now? You either end it or you make yourself a liar.

I know that is over simplifying the situation, but you either meant what you said or you didn't. If you didn't mean it, it could be construed that you lied. My point is sometime lies are not black and white.

[Myfathersglove]

I get that Dr but not sure how I apply it to my situation. Does the fact that things aren't always black and white mean I should give him another chance (and potentially permission to put me back here every few weeks or months) or that I have to stick to my guns in order not to be a hypocrite? I'm so confused, the thing itself feels like a pathetic reason to end a marriage but I just don't think I can cope with never knowing if he's telling me the truth.

[DrMorbius]

I don't have the answer sorry Op, I was just pointing out the incongruence in your stance. You either leave or you make yourself a liar the very thing you hate and potentially leaving for.

[Morasssassafras]

You're not ending it over "the thing" you are ending it because he lies to you and so can't be trusted.

[SandyY2K]

I agree with DrM as I said up thread. If you give anything like an ultimatum like this and don't follow through, he will never believe you will leave over a lie.

I'm not saying you should leave him, but don't make any more threats of leaving him if you can't be sure you will follow through.

Maybe you should just keep this lie in mind and within yourself, without saying anything to him. Knowing that you've called him on this already - should he still continue to lie, you can take it as him having no regard for your feelings and making decisions that would indirectly impact on you and that he'll continue to do so.

The fact that this decision was going to have an indirect impact on you and he lied would be cause for concern. Was it an outright lie or lie by ommission?

[Myfathersglove]

Both Sandy, he didn't tell me (and admits he made a conscious decision to not tell me, hence the 'protecting me' reasoning) and then outright lied by denying it when I found out and asked him about it.

[Myfathersglove]

Yes Dr, I have backed myself into a corner, I told him last night he's left me with no choice but to follow through with what I said would happen if he did it again, both because I'm not a liar and because going back on that would give him carte blanche to do it again. Like I said at the beginning of my first post I know what I have to do really, I guess I just wish he hadn't put me in this position again and over something so utterly insignificant at that. It just seems so sad and pathetic that he's pissed our marriage down the drain by lying about something he had no need to lie about in the first place.

[adora1]

I think you need to separate, at least temporarily and perhaps he needs professional help, it's not about one lie, it's about the person you are meant to trust more in this world letting you down constantly.

[IslandLife]

I really do feel for you and I'm so sorry that you're in this situation. My ex, who I firmly believe was my absolute soulmate, was a liar. We split up and got back together numerous times, all because of his lies. In the end, we got back together one last time and I realised I couldn't and didn't love him in the same way anymore. Unfortunately I think that some people just lie and they're not gonna stop. It's just part of who they are. It doesn't even matter what the lie is about, small lie or big lie, it's still a lie and a deception. Only you know what you need to do, but you need to put yourself first. Spending your life wondering if you're being lied to is no way to live. Sorry I can't give you better advice, good luck with whatever you decide to do.

[Getit]

Sorry you are going through this.
In my experience small lies inevitably lead to big ones.
I detest liars.

[Horehound]

Cant stand liars either. You have to follow through, surely?

[Myfathersglove]

I do feel totally let down adora and I think you're right but separating is going to be really hard logistically. He has no family local enough for him to be able to get to work and there's no money for a hotel or B&B short term. Obviously if we split properly he would have to get a place but I can't see how we could make a trial/temporary separation work on a practical level so I think I have to be really sure it's for keeps if we're going to separate. He's away for work now til the weekend so I do at least have a little time to think.

Island, I'm sorry you've been here too Why do you think they do it? Why is the compulsion to lie so strong they would risk everything?

[smilingeyes11]

It doesn't really matter what he lied about - it is the fact he lied again - and this is only what you know about. What else has he lied about you didn't find out and what else will he lie about in the future.

I am afraid I think you should tell him to leave. You told him if he lied it would be the end - and how could you ever trust him now. No wonder you get upset. Don't believe all the I lied to protect you rubbish, that is just a crap excuse liars come out with. He is protecting himself and he is a liar. Nowt else to say really.

[AnyFucker]

Don't give ultimatums you are not prepared to see through

He knew what the outcome of more lies would be. So you have to give him that outcome.

Have you considered he might be pushing you to end the relationship because he is too cowardly to do it himself ?

[adora1]

Can't he rent a spare room somewhere or kip on a mate's couch, he should be amenable to whatever you ask, if he wants you to actually try again with him, otherwise, just carry on the merry go round, nothing will change.

[Myfathersglove]

I said that to him last night smiling, that every time he does this it makes me wonder what else he's lied about and how I can trust anything he ever says. He is spectacularly bad at it though, doesn't cover his tracks and seems to think I'm so stupid and unobservant I just won't notice. Think that makes it worse to be honest, that he respects my intelligence so little he thinks I won't realise. I just feel so small, so belittled and humiliated and so hurt that he knows this is how it makes me feel and chooses to do it anyway. Is it normal/reasonable that I feel that way or is it an extreme response based on a particular neurosis in me? As soon as I know, or even suspect, that I'm being deceived it provokes such a strong reaction in me and has done for as long as I can remember, I can't work out if that's normal or not and if it isn't it puts doubt in my mind that he is 100% of the problem. I'm scared I'm overreacting and splitting up my DC's family for something I should be able to get past.

[Myfathersglove]

No AF, splitting up is the last thing he wants, I'm sure of that. It's almost as though he can't help himself, or that he manages to convince himself that lying is the right thing for him to do despite everything I've said. I know I have to follow through now, I just wish he hadn't done this.

[AnyFucker]

I feel the exact same way about being lied to.

Maybe it's an ego thing with me but I have zero tolerance of it. Tell me the truth or fuck off.

[Myfathersglove]

That got half a laugh AF, impressive because I don't feel like laughing in the slightest. It just feels like such a basic requirement to me, if he doesn't respect me enough to be open and honest with me then why the fuck is he with me? And I respect him less every time he lies to me, especially when it's about such petty, stupid things.