Is it over... How do I fix this?

[jimbob1990]

Hi all. Sorry but I feel I have nowhere to turn so here I am... Male dominated forums tend to just say "leave her" but I want to fix it and need a female perspective. I don't want sympathy, I just want things to work for both of us.

Allow me to explain the situation. I met my current gf (J) 18 months ago, while I was in an unhappy long term relationship with my ex-gf (D) who lived with me at the time. I admitted to D I had cheated on her with J in October, but she decided to make another go of it with me. D was a very clingy and slightly unstable girl who had attempted to kill herself when I broke up with her.

I tried to stop talking to J but couldn't. She is the person who I have just clicked with from second one, and her messages made me happy. J started seeing another lad early March (6 months after we met). After a few weeks she told me she was seeing someone I decided to tell J I like her. In mid may after meeting a few times J dumped the lad she was seeing and I made the decision to move up north for J. During this time I had told D I was breaking up with her but that as she had nowhere to go I did not throw her out. She had just started her new job and I felt like she needed some stability and she wanted to carry on as normal (In the vain attempt that I may change my mind).

J slept with me while seeing her new man (of 3 months) and then decided to stop. 6 weeks later I moved 150 miles to be with J and start a new relationship in July. I ended things with D when I left my home. Despite moving and knowing nobody, J didn't see me for 10 days, and saw me a total of 4 times in July. I will admit this was the loneliest time of my life and even in June she was describing herself as single, got a guys number on a night out, in August J was describing me as her friend claiming she had no bf (she claimed sleeping with me was not cheating as the lad after 10 weeks still wasn't her bf). I visited D to get my stuff, and weakened by loneliness and convinced J was having doubts and completely unsure of our status I spent the afternoon with D but did not have sex with her (who was ecstatic to see me). I immediately regretted it and from that point I have never cheated on her. We messaged innocently to check on each other but myself and D never kissed again.

10 months if a very happy relationship later J found out about D and has quizzed me on it. She went through my phone and found old messages from D. J got in contact with D and claimed that D had told her loads of stuff. I have reluctantly told her the truth after 2 days. 2 weeks later however J is claiming she knows something has happened since and D has told her. In a last gasp attempt to gain trust 2 weeks later I have 'admitted' to sleeping with D in August on the basis D may have told her to mess things up for me.

I then drove to see D to beg her not to ruin my new life and tell the truth. She told me to message J pretending to be her. She then set me up and told J I was pretending to be her. Malicious but my fault for thinking that D would not want to ruin my life.

I should also make it clear that the month after I met J she started seeing someone, but didnt tell me as she didnt want me to stop talking to her because we had so much fun. I understand mine was a proper relationship but still...

J claimed she wanted no contact with me and would deal with my stuff through my sis. Eventually she contacts me asking about my stuff. I respond. She then the next day is annoyed I haven't apologized, which I do. Its been a week now and I will post the last messages I have received from her.

our conversation has gone as follows:

Her:

No. I've had enough of this J. I'm going to block you as I've had enough. If you want to arrange getting your stuff back you need to do that through C.

2 days later: her:

Thought just easier to message you because I swear you took your TV thing home to watch films when I wanted space. I can only find some Phillips thing that's in the plug socket. Is it something else you wanted? I need to send everything off in the morning so let me know

Next day me:

Yes and my raspberries pi and keyboard and any other stuff that's mine. Are you OK? X

Her:

OK.. I'm gonna need a bigger thing to put it in lol .. I can't think, I'll have to do it Saturday as I needed to do it first thing and I'm out the rest of the day today. Been better but not too bad thanks you

Me:

Had a terrible day or two but feeling a lot better now thanks x

Her:

Pleased to hear it.
surprised that now you've calmed down I haven't had a sincere apology from you for what you've actually done to hurt me but that's life

Me: next day:

Hey babe. I fully accept my actions and behaviours have been totally unacceptable and totally out of character, and I have had every intention and desire to explain myself to you and offer you an apology that you clearly deserve... But I have been trying to respect your position and was waiting for the right time, and I'm not necessarily sure that's now (I know you!). It has taken me some days of reflection to realise that I was in a very dark place, and that you of all people must realize or at least understand why... Although I am by no means justifying my actions and in particular the upset I have caused you, and never ever will be. I am now coming to terms with what you appear to want, and what I appear to want... Although I feel that what we both want isn't too different.. There is much I would like to explain to you, in particular what i now with a clear head have realized what defines a successful relationship. This is trust. An area that I realise I have failed in, and am now paying the ultimate cost. I had a still have a vision of how our relationship should and could be and not withstanding what has taken place in the past. I would love btoo have the opportunity to share this with you by having a fresh start with a commitment to earning your trust again. I am getting back to the J YOU knew, liked and loves more than anyone. The impact on me following what's happened has been self-evident and I cannot apologize enough that you saw a side of me I never even knew existed. But I can promise that this person is in the past and I am fully coming to terms with the situation: and the things that we both know are irreplaceable about each other are still there. Thanks for sorting everything out and you know I wish you all the love and happiness in the world in the future, and I would grasp the opportunity to be part of that future as someone you can trust and count like I have been countless times in our history... And perhaps more importantly to have the opportunity to express this to you fully. But appreciate that for this may still not be the right time for that Xx

Her:

It definitely isn't the right time at all. It would just be nice to know you're genuinely sorry for hurting and putting me in a position that I never thought I'd be in which is spending my life without the person I love. And I'm sad you don't understand why that is no longer an option for me. The things you have done have been over the entire time I have known you it is only that it has all come to light in a short space of time. I've been good to you despite my stroppy and mental moments and I was finally ready to be with someone and I still want that in the not so distant future but everything you have done has meant that can't be with you. Which has literally killed me ... I thought that what we had was incredible and that I'd never ever have to so much as look at another guy. To have that all brought down due to a secret that you had been keeping from your 'best friend' and 'person you love' was absolutely heartbreaking! It would just be nice if you could see that and be genuinely sorry you have done that to me not just sorry for yourself that you have lost me but I appreciate your message x


Me: next day:

Look baby. I've spent nearly a day trying to write a message about how sorry I am but after 16 attempts I have failed, and have realized there are not enough words to describe how I feel. But I hope you realise hunny, I am sorry (understatement). You are one of the 2 ppl on earth I would never deliberately hurt (top of the list) and it breaks my heart to think of you in pain. My own pain I've dealt with, but It honestly tugs at my guts to think that I have caused you any sort of hurt, let alone this! I've spent my life knowing you trying to keep you from pain and I have failed!!! But it upsets you.to think I would ever put you in a position to upset you because I genuinely mbbean it when I say I would sacrifice my life for you. Now still isn't the right time to address everything else... but I promise you, I never ever want to.inflict anything on the girl I do love and for you to doubt that upsets me... Xx

Her: next day.

Thank you that means a lot. I didn't and don't understand how you could have done that to someone you love and move all this way, let me fall in love with you based on a lie. It has completely broken me and I know I can't ever feel the same about you again. That isn't to say this has been easy because I'm not having a good time at all! It's nice to hear a genuine apology from you and for you to actually realise what you've put me through so thank you for that J xx



Now, it's been a week. I don't know what to do. She's basically saying I'm perfect but she can't forgive my past. What do I do, how do you think she is feeling, how do I fix this. I sense a bit of a double standard from her (my secret was worse) but since october when she decided I was actually her boyfriend we have been perfect. I don't get how you could throw that away...

I would imagine you all have a lot of questions. But what do I do to fix this. Give her another week to calm down and suggest meeting her? What do I say. Do I ignore her? I'm heartbroken and lost...

[jimbob1990]

she also sent this the day after she kicked me out:

"Please don't forget all the incredible things you've done. Sitting in a chair for three hours while I puke on holiday, coming home from Kent for me at silly o clock in the morning because I've lost my at you, putting up with my shouting fits cuz I was quitting smoking and then still driving to Nottingham to buy me doughnuts to say well done. Whatever issues you have that have led you to be this way I really hope you can resolve them because you will make the perfect boyfriend to someone one day. That's one thing I was right about! You have everything a man could need to be able to make someone happy. Please remember that and don't put yourself down."


I'm so confused. She's saying I've been perfect but can't forgive my past...

[Margay]

She's saying she doesn't want to be with you any more. I don't think you can "fix it".

[Ledkr]

[donajimena]

You messed up. I wouldn't forgive that. Ever. No matter how much I loved someone.

[OurBlanche]

She has said goodbye, but also that whilst she can't get over it she doesn't think you are a total shit, she does think you could be as good for someone else as you once were for her.

Thank her for being nice about it, apologise one more time and say goodbye for the last time. Then concentrate on getting on with your own life.

[ThatStewie]

She's being polite. She doesn't trust you. Doesn't want you anywhere near her. She's just being polite rather than telling you to piss off for being a dick.

[PurpleDaisies]

She's saying I've been perfect but can't forgive my past...

The whole of the rest of your post is irrelevant. She's telling you she doesn't want to be with you. I'm sorry but you have to find some way to move on.

[SouthWesterlyWinds]

Let her go. From what you've written, this isn't true love but grass is greener love. You overlapped with D, then J overlapped with you and other chaps, then your overlapped with J with D. And they both know and let's face it, there isn't marriage, there aren't children thankfully and you can start again. But you need to start again truefully with someone else. Any relationship with either J or D now won't be a healthy, mature relationship. Take some time for yourself and just be you - no relationships, no dating, no rebound.

And next time you have a relationship, be honest. If you fall out of love, tell your partner and end it before cheating. Because, let's be honest, that's what you actually did.

[SandyY2K]

First off I feel relationships that start with cheating often don't last. You cheated to begin with and she did as well for 3 months but she denies it. Whether she was cheating on him or you is besides the point.

You are both cheaters.

For the life of me why would you admit to sleeping with D when you actually didn't. That's just crazy. You moved a long way to be with her but it hasn't worked out so just let it go.

In her mind she knows you cheated once and thinks you did again .... so the trust is gone.

Lies and deceit are no foundation for a relationship. Move on and chalk it down to experience.

[KindDogsTail]

I have tried to read what you wrote. I can see you are very unhappy and so is J and feel sorry for you both. (And for D.)

To tell the truth it all sounds quite muddled. I feel you and J were both still entangled in other relationships, and still relying on them, when you met each other and that you tried to get together last year too soon:

It seems you were essentially still with D with whom you were still living; J was with another boyfriend, who wasn't a real boyfriend though she was was sleeping with him at the same time she was also meeting up/sleeping with you.

Maybe things moved too quickly for you both.

Both of you seemed willing to cheat or sit on the fence with other relationships in the past. That would not have helped trust.

It also seems that D your previous girlfriend felt badly hurt and that the after effects of this have resonated. Even if D needed to accept the relationship with you was over, she found this difficult to do. J and D have been in contact and this has caused problems with D telling J things about you that would upset her - one thing being that you went back to see D and spent an afternoon her and slept with her.

Does J understand that when you went back to see your old girlfriend, D, to get your things you were somewhat falling into a comfort zone because she herself, J, seemed unsure about you? (Not seeing you much etc.)

In a last gasp attempt to gain trust 2 weeks later I have 'admitted' to sleeping with D in August on the basis D may have told her to mess things up for me

Is it really true that you 'admitted' something false? Why would you do that?
It will be very difficult for her to believe you didn't sleep with D now. Why would lying about it gain J's trust? Or, did you in fact sleep with D?

Perhaps you should explain and apologise again. Say it would be a shame to break up when it was probably just that you both tried to get together in too much of a rush.

Then give each her complete space for a couple of weeks. After that see if she would like to try again.

[jimbob1990]

D had told me she had told J that I had slept with her, so in my panic I thought 'I've gotta own up completely or she will never ever trust me'. D manipulated and punished me. Her messages to J were backhanded nice if that makes sense.

Just got off the phone to J. She was asking about my plans for the future but we had a fun chat! She agreed that we need to meet to talk next weekend but its only been a week, I think the weekend after may be more wise? And I don't know what to say...

August was a comfort thing. I must admit, it was nice to be 'home'. Even in October J wasessaging the lad who she started seeing immediately after me (she didn't tell me at the time she was seeing someone) and was unsure whether to commit to me or not. So she makes out as if it was cut and dry from when I moved but I literally was so confused as to what "we" were were. Didn't call me her boyfriend until late September! But since we have committed we have been great.

What do I say next week? Suggest going back to dating once a week and build on what was good?

[jimbob1990]

Just got a message simply saying:

It was really nice to have a normal conversation with you x

[TheoriginalLEM]

are you 16?

[jimbob1990]

No. 26. Thanks for your input....

[jimbob1990]

Sorry I was tetchy.

I know what you mean. But since we have had a 'normal' relationship we have been great. The first few months were complicated to say the least

[VioletSunshine]

I'd write them both off to be honest. It sounds like a really messy situation for all involved, and you're only going to get hurt by J, or hurt D even more if you try and maintain any kind of relationship with either of them.
J sounds like she's messing you about too, and is quite manipulative. Like, it's okay for her to be seeing someone else and not say she has a bf when you move to be with her and are going out, but it's not okay for you to not do anything with your ex but you have to lie and say something happened anyway?

[KindDogsTail]

Yes, I would give it longer, two or three weeks,

I too think J has not behaved in a transparent, above board way for all that she accuses you of not having behaved well.

It would help to have the past clearly behind both of you. Absolutely no past ties, and this may take longer than you think - (for example you admit it was nice to be home when you went back and saw D and actually that is understandable).

So why not try going out with each other bit by bit, not being in touch with ex'es, and both give give each other time.

[YouSay]

What a mess. You treated your ex (d) horribly. I can't really get beyond that. You should work on yourself before getting involved in another relationship. Forget J. It is over. You sound like a narcissist.

[BolshierAryaStark]

Sorry but I gave up reading your OP halfway through, time's precious.
It all sounds a bit like teen bullshit tbh & I'm struggling to imagine you're 26... Whatever, the relationship started as a lie, you're both cheaters so in all honesty where did you think it would end up?
Cut contact with both your ex's, spend some time as a single person.

[Bitchqueen90]

All of you should stay away from each other IMO. This whole thing is a complete mess, gave me a headache just reading it.

[jimbob1990]

Not defending myself, but D broke up.with me first time I cheated. And once I did I got into a terrible habit. D had no job, lived with me and I supported her. I told her I cheated (she then tried to kill herself) but she had nowhere to go (her parents got rid of her room when she moved in with me 'officially'). I was scared to leave her because of what she would do to herself. I should've been stronger but she had me emotionally under the thumb for fear of what she might do. No.excuse I know but it was a horrible position to be in. Once D got a career in march I knew I could end it, but I didn't have the heart to throw her out in April. I just wasnt strong enough...

Before I moved for J (she ended it with L in late May) we went in a night out in June where she spent an hour with me, then got another guys number who 'wanted to train with her'. In June she was describing herself as single. I moved in July and she didn't see me for 10 days (going gym and seeing her friends in that time). I was lonely, on my own (moved to a new place!) and really didn't think she cared all that much. In August she was moaning to her mum that she still didn't have a boyfriend. I craved comfort and spent the afternoon with. We didn't have sex but J insinuated that D had told her we did, and I felt I needed to own up to something so she would think I was at least being honest now...

As much as it is a mess... And massively complicated. Since October we have been a great 'normal' couple and have so much fun and genuinely love each other. Im thinking we could start from scratch now everything is in the open. She hasn't been completely honest either through fear of losing me too.

She seemed keen to meet next weekend but I think its too soon and maybe the weekend after would be better. J starts a new job and is missing her support network (something I've had to live with). She was looking to me for support earlier but I guess that I need her to realize what a future without me would be like.

[YouSay]

She has told you about five times it is over. You have to respect that. The trust is gone. There is no future. Accept it.

[jimbob1990]

Its over but I've now got another message asking me not to see any other girls because that will upset her. People say things when angry...

[SouthWesterlyWinds]

She has no right to say that to you. You are not together so it's none of her business.

Although I stand by my precious assertion of not dating anyone for a while.

[jimbob1990]

She has just started an argument with me for worrying her that I'm moving on and going out talking to other girls.

And that she wants reassuring that I'm not moving on (well she had a go at me for not reassuring her).