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Lies, withholding, distorting.....(8 Posts)
This is the pattern with my OH - on big stuff and little stuff.
I am exhausted and frustrated with it.
It takes me weeks running around trying to uncover the truth during which time I get increasingly distracted and agitated.
When finally cornered, with evidence in front of him - he says he has to lie as he 'is scared of my anger' or 'it was nt his intention to lie or hurt'.
His parents are/were alcoholics - so I think that his MO was to live a life under the radar, covering up etc
Ask him how he wants to plan the future, what is his one year, five year and ten year plan , and how he wants to live it.
Then work out what your one,five and ten year plan is.
Sit down together and work out if they match, what you are comfortable compromising on, and be clear that living in honest relationship is a not an option.
Has he done any work on himself as an adult child of alcoholics? Is he even aware of how his damaging childhood is affecting his adult life and relationships?
An inability to commit to the truth is a classic symptom of being brought up by alcoholics, as it seems you know.
His final excuses worry me. The first one is failing to take responsibility for his choices to lie. The second one is victim blaming. Both are the type of thing that a passive aggressive person would say (nothing is ever their fault).
Given his background, it may well have been safer for him to express his hurt/anger at his parents in passive ways (passive resistance, being late, losing things, breaking things, forgetting to do things etc) and then apologising like that (because in his head he WOULD blame his parents).
If he is passive aggressive, then he's also very unlikely to change. Truly passive aggressive people can never be the 'bad guy'. They cannot admit their faults, and so they are unable to let themselves see (let alone deal with) their passive aggressive flaws. Also be aware that some passive aggressive people are quite able to say sorry. They say it to stop conflict, but don't believe that they are really at fault, and actually blame the person they're apologising to - As in: "I believe I'm right, but I'll apologise to stop X being grumpy"...the emphasis being on X being the angry person who needs placating (more victim blaming) because in their heads X's anger is X'sfault & completely detached from anything that the passive aggressive person has done/not done.
Funnily enough though, if you decide to stop reacting to a passive aggressive's behaviour, they will distance themselves from you. A passive aggressive person learnt in childhood that it wasn't safe to express their own anger (either in a traumatic childhood, or in a home where anger = bad). So they learnt to provoke other people to anger instead. Then when X gets angry, the passive aggressive person's anger is expressed but they also feel superior because X lost their temper and not them.
If you stop reacting, then they don't get what they need form the relationship. At first they will escalate their behaviour. If you still refuse to engage, then they will detach because they're not getting what they need from you, and will look for it elsewhere (be warned, they may start using other relatives/children/a new partner for their anger reaction supply).
well he is never going to change, clearly
time to put up or shut up
Fidelia that exactly the dynamic. I have detached recently as it is so futile.
He is in counselling but clearly it is having zero impact.
AF - yes this looks like the choice I have to make.
OP - Beware of him using counselling to manipulate you. He is likely to use counselling to try to make you change/attack your self esteem, rather than make changes in himself.
Be very suspicious of any 'advice' from his counsellor that seems to blame you or hold you responsible for his issues - especially anything linked to conflict. Counsellors tend to approach spouses directly & offer joint sessions in those circumstances. Counsellors do not triangulate and/or send messages through their clients.
Fidelia - yes this is exactly what has happened. We had joint counselling for 6 months which was very effective I thought. He listened and was very articulate in these sessions - and I thought I saw a new side of him that was emotionally intelligent.
The MC then suggested we wrap up these joint sessions as we were settled but go to see separate individual counsellors to work on specific personal issues. He started with his in November - mine was not free until a couple of weeks ago.
Since November he has been distant emotionally and communicatively. Then I discovered one almighty lie just before xmas -- he denied it repeatedly to my face, said I was wrong and therefore gaslighted me for 3 weeks, before finally coming clean.
It is something he needs me to do with regard to our finances (basically using all of the equity of our home to secure a massive loan for his business) - since he has lied about the details of it - I have said an out right "No" - he has bullied and harrassed me about it everyday since. I said if he asks me one more time we will separate.
He then tells me that thru his individual counselling - he has discussed his repeated lies and deception and they have concluded that the reason he lies is that he is scared of "my anger".
So he has transferred the responsibility for his lies and deception on to me.
I have escalated to anger and frustration after repeatedly stating I know what was said/agreed/happened and him telling me I am mistaken.
As I suspected he is even lying to the counsellor. And to himself. He said that he told her he had withheld information from me and that he should have communicated it earlier - but he was scared of me.
He did not tell her that he withheld critical info for months, then lied to my face repeatedly for weeks when I uncovered it and also during those weeks of lying to me that he repeatedly told me I was mistaken, I had the facts wrong.
He is still saying to this day that he needs to less scared of me and not withhold.....but this is not what he did.
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