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Does this seem like a red flag/s to anyone else?

(28 Posts)
NeutralChaos Mon 02-Nov-15 04:35:23

So, one of my best friend's/roommate (let's call her Shana) has been casually hanging out with a guy (we'll call him Clive) for the better part of a year. There's been some weird issues; she was completely besotted with him but he's constantly kept her at arms length, not willing to give any of himself emotionally.

Then we found out that, last December (2014), that Clive had gotten engaged to his on again/off again girlfriend. He didn't tell Shana about until March (2015), the whole while carrying on the friend's with benefits casual thing that he had going on with her before the engagement happened. His engagement didn't curtail his behaviour with Shana at all. And when he told her about it, she was fine with continuing with the sex, as well. As she told me, the fiancee lived ten hours away and she didn't know wouldn't hurt her.

So they carried on until Clive and his fiancee called off their engagement and they kept carrying on afterwards. Now there was the added fun of Clive not being over his fiancee at all, ranting at Shana about how crazy she was, how she cheated on him, etc. The whole time still denying Shana any type of real relationship other than casual sex. This kept going until a week or so ago.

Shana, over the last week, has started to try and withdraw from Clive. He's been starting fights over texts, accused her of trying to date other guys (despite the fact that they're not even close to exclusive), told her that he seems the same warning signs between Shana and his ex. Telling her not to delete her OLD profiles as she'll probably need them in the future, that they weren't exclusive and never had been, etc.

Last night, Shana got sick of it. Completely. She told him that if he was going to continue to be the way he was being, then all she wanted to do was be his friend and take the sex off the table completely.

Well, my oh my, did his tune change fast. Why was she suddenly going a complete 180 degrees when, you know, he decided just that moment that he's finally ready to move on. And now he sees a future with her, but she needs to stop playing games with him.

She rushed up to see him last night, in order to talk things out, and when she got home early in the afternoon she told me that they are now exclusive. They're going to have a relationship. It's all happy, happy. He apparently even told her that he loves her... All this after trying his hardest to keep out of any kind of relationship with her.

I just ... I don't know. It's such an extreme change after he accused her of playing him, jerking him around and all that.

I know people will wonder how I know what the texts said, but she showed me their conversations, letting me read back over all the mean things he said to her.

I just don't know how to reconcile how his actions seem against the words he's telling her. It seemed as though the moment she wanted to stand up for herself and stand up a little bit, he wiggled his fingers, said exactly what she wanted to hear and now she thinks they're in love.

Like I said... I just don't know sad

Toffeelatteplease Mon 02-Nov-15 04:40:02

They don't reconcile. I very much doubt he will not continue to cheat on her.

However I also doubt you pointing that out will go down at all well sad

NeutralChaos Mon 02-Nov-15 05:08:53

I concur. But it's so hard when I'm sitting next to her while she sobs her heart out for three hours because, when she told him he was busy with friends and can't see him right away, his first instinct is to accuse her of actually being out with other guys. And then rant at her and tell her that it's obvious he doesn't matter to her and maybe she should sign up for Plenty of Fish again...

I just want to kick his testicles back inside his body fumes

DoreenLethal Mon 02-Nov-15 06:25:09

it is not a red flag is it, as such? It is just a horrible horrible man who is probably shagging everything he can nail.

NeutralChaos Mon 02-Nov-15 06:33:42

Fair enough. It just seemed to me that it was super coincidental that moment Shana decides that she's going to try and extricate herself from the situation and maybe take some time for herself, he's suddenly telling her every single thing that she's been hoping to hear. That he wants her, wants to be with her in a relationship, that he loves he.

It seemed gross and manipulative because, to me, it seemed as though he said all things he did because he was losing control and he couldn't bear that.

And I also thought it was a bit of a red flag that he was accusing Shana of being like his "crazy" ex, cheating on him like his ex did, etc.

ScribblerOnTheRoof Mon 02-Nov-15 13:27:57

Would Shana actually mind if he was sleeping with other girls behind her back? This seems to be normal behaviour to her, given that she knew he had a fiance?

NeutralChaos Mon 02-Nov-15 16:16:38

The thing is, she would be hugely hurt if it turned out that Clive was sleeping with other girls. She worked out some hugely hypocritical and flawed reasons why it was okay when she knew he was engaged, though. Really trite stuff like since they lived so far apart it wasn't a real engagement, they were always arguing, the fiancee seemed crazy and bitchy, etc.

Seeyounearertime Mon 02-Nov-15 16:21:13

Why would any woman ant a relationship with 'Clive'?
He sounds creepy, seedy, untrust worthy and vile. Surely most people would rather be in a relationship with a decent guy who hasn't got a track record of usomg people for their own ends?

Maybe I'm old fashioned though?

category12 Mon 02-Nov-15 16:23:23

Mm-hmm and now she's going to be cast as the crazy bitchy one. I doubt very much he is changing, it's merely she nearly got off his hook, so he's reeling her in again.

OurBlanche Mon 02-Nov-15 16:30:52

So, Shana will be the crazy fiance, who will be the new, deluded FWB?

Still, her life, her drama. If she enjoys that sort of hysteria you have no way of convincing her he is a Grade A Shite!

RiceCrispieTreats Mon 02-Nov-15 16:51:35

Well yes, of course. What's going on here is transparent, to anyone but Shana.

Shana will continue to hear what she wants to hear. You will be mopping up her tears a few more times. But there's not much else you can do, other than let her make her own choices, and let her hopefully learn from her own mistakes, in time.

Sad to watch, though.

pocketsaviour Mon 02-Nov-15 17:09:35

I presume they're both teenagers at uni? This kind of drama is pretty typical during one's early dating life ime. I'd keep my beak out and just help pick up the pieces when it all goes tits up.

RunRabbitRunRabbit Mon 02-Nov-15 22:00:17

I just don't know how to reconcile how his actions seem against the words he's telling her.

He's a lying manipulative twat. Does that reconcile it for you? grin

You could just repeat that to her when she sobs about his latest bad behaviour. "It's because Clive's a twat Shana". "but I luuuuurrve him. we are soul mates. he is nice sometimes" "Maybe so but he is still a twat Shana"

NeutralChaos Tue 03-Nov-15 04:46:15

Seeyou -- If you're old-fashioned, I am as well. I don't understand what Shana sees in him. I haven't understood from the start, but for some reason she keeps swearing that she loves him. I agree that he's seedy, untrustworthy and vile.

Category12 and OurBlanche -- That's exactly what I'm afraid of. She's going to be cast as the crazy, cheating ex as soon as he starts slime-balling onto his next target. I'm equally worried that he's going to try and keep trying to reconcile with his ex-fiancee, as well. He was incredibly hung up on her and trying to force her to talk to him and 'make up'.

RiceCrispieTreats -- It is sad. And the other night wasn't the first time I'd mopped her tears because of him. I've had to be there for her while cried her eyes out, asking me why SHE wasn't good enough for HIM...

PocketSaviour -- Uni? Oh, if they were at uni I could almost understand the drama. No ... she'll be 36 in December and he's 37.

RunRabbit -- There's nothing in your first sentence that I disagree with :D I've been perhaps a little more candid than I should of when I told her what I've thought of him. His behaviour. And how he's treated her.

And everytime he's being an enormous cunt-bag, I'll be there to dry her tears and gently remind her that he is, in fact, a twat grin

Busyworkingmum71 Tue 03-Nov-15 05:23:19

Perhaps Clive's fiancée found out about Shana, and Clive has finally figured out she rally won't take him back. So Shana is second best. Until he finds someone else who floats his boat more again.

He's an utter arse biscuit and she really needs to ltb.

you are Shana aren't you

NeutralChaos Tue 03-Nov-15 06:33:53

Busyworkingmum71 Oh, Clive's fiancee knew about Shana back around February. But I suppose the fiancee thought she'd won because they officially announced their engagement. What she didn't know was that Clive was shagging Shana behind the fiancee's back.

It was an utter mess. God, it still is a mess.

And I knew that people would wonder if I'm Shana. I'm truly not, but I am her best friend, roommate and cousin. I've been privy to a front-row seat to all the drama. Constantly.

Duckdeamon Tue 03-Nov-15 06:43:30

He was clearly an arse from the start, the issue is whether he's abusive or just a common ol' tosser.

At this stage I wouldn't be spending lots of time listening to and supporting your friend. I would be distancing myself, probably including moving out, avoiding him completely, and letting her know that I hoped she'd end the relationship because he's a loser.

Does she want children? If so she's either wastinh her time with him or likely to end up very miserAble and probably a single parent with a useless ex/father of her DC.

JAPAB Tue 03-Nov-15 06:52:35

He didn't tell Shana about until March (2015), the whole while carrying on the friend's with benefits casual thing that he had going on with her before the engagement happened. His engagement didn't curtail his behaviour with Shana at all. And when he told her about it, she was fine with continuing with the sex, as well. As she told me, the fiancee lived ten hours away and she didn't know wouldn't hurt her.

I would have red flags about both of them. On first inspection at least. I acknowledge that there may be more to it beyond such "headlines", that may change my initial negative reaction when reading things such as the above.

AnyFucker Tue 03-Nov-15 07:00:49

Has Clive got a diamond studded cock ?

Marilynsbigsister Tue 03-Nov-15 07:33:27

No red flags here just extremely unpleasant behaviour from both. Whilst he is cheating on his fiancee and waving his 'diamond studded cock' at anyone who's stupid enough, Shana is happy to shag a man knowing he has someone else. Hope they are happy together. She is not a victim here but completely, knowingly complicit in the whole sorry drama . Thank God the fiance appeared to be the only one with some brains here and dumped him.

ThreeRuddyTubs Tue 03-Nov-15 07:50:33

Really they both sound like twats

NeutralChaos Tue 03-Nov-15 07:59:00

Duckdeamon -- I'm engaging her less in conversation when she's talking about Clive. Just kind of nodding but not saying a whole lot. I'm not actually at home that much, to be honest. I'm in my own relationship and spend the majority of time at my boyfriend's flat.

Oh, and she's aching for kids. I'm fairly certain that she wants this guy to be the one she marries and has kids with. Sad, I know.

JAPAB -- I would have been willing to give Shana the benefit of the doubt if she hadn't known about the engagement. The moment she told me she did, and was fine with the way things were going with her and Clive, my respect for her took a massive nose-dive.

AnyFucker -- Even if was platinum plated and studded with diamonds, rubies and emeralds, I wouldn't be able to understand what she sees in the tosser.

Marylinsbigsister -- To me, the biggest things I was worried about being red flags were both how quick he was to accuse Shana of dating other men, accusing her of the same 'warning signs he saw in his ex' and how terribly manipulative he was in order to bring her back to him when she made some headway in pulling away from him, how he said he loved her, etc.

I do agree that their behaviour hasn't been exemplary but she almost showed some signs of having a backbone and deciding enough was enough. But as soon as he said all the right things, she ran right back to him. I'm sure she thinks everything is peachy.

ThreeRuddyTubs -- I really can't disagree with you. There's been twattish actions from both sides.

AnyFucker Tue 03-Nov-15 09:20:37

I would just disengage

She will learn the hard way unfortunately

Let's hope that happens before she gets pregnant

RiceCrispieTreats Tue 03-Nov-15 09:44:50

They're 36 and 37? I thought for sure you were all in your early 20s and that this is Shana's first rodeo, hence the naivety.

Definitely distance yourself. This is a trainwreck, you can't save her, she's determined to cling on to this drama. You don't need to add any drama by proxy into your life, though. It won't help either you or Shana.

Just show no interest or emotion when she talks to you about Clive's latest shenanigans and her feelings about them, and change the subject to something neutral. You have nothing to gain by enabling her drama, and it won't help Shana either.

Shutthatdoor Tue 03-Nov-15 09:48:36

Would Shana actually mind if he was sleeping with other girls behind her back? This seems to be normal behaviour to her, given that she knew he had a fiance?

Exactly. She knew he was engaged.

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