Live in Partners finance and his grown up daughters

[Sandie9]

Hi all, been on Mumsnet lots reading but first time posting! So, thank you in advance.. Background, been with my partner for nearly 7 years and we have lived together for 2 years(renting). I have 2 grown up sons from my previous marriage and my partner has 2 grown up daughters. He owns a house elsewhere which he rents out. I may be very wrong in my feelings here but a conversation came up today about wills. He simply said it was straightforward as he would tell the solicitor he would leave all to his daughters. Now, whilst at present I have nothing of real worth to leave anyone (and that will change in the future), I would be thinking of leaving a large share to my sons but also a fair amount to my partner. I think of the future wherby if one of us became critically and terminally ill (even with critical illness financial cover) it would still be up to each partner to 'take care ' of the other one in terms of physical and emotional care. Is it very selfish and manipulative to think like this? I have to say I don't know why I feel so upset that he wouldn't leave me anything financially at the end of his days ... Am I wrong in feeling this way? I know he would look after me if I was ill and vice versa but cant help feeling undervalued?

[Seeyounearertime]

The only thing I could think is that because you're both adults and coming into an adult relationship that you have you're own assets that you have earnt over a lofe time so its yours to do with as you will, as it were.
I certainly think you should ask him straight and sort it out.

[Seeyounearertime]

Lofe time.... Lol. Life time, lofe time makes it sound like we're having sarnies.

[Grumpyoldblonde]

I don't think either of you is wrong exactly. You are both adults with non-dependent children, living in rented accomodation so really in practical terms you are not tied to each other in any way but are in an adult relationship. It would be worth having a conversation about what happens if one partner becomes sick (and actually if one loses their income). If you do not yet have wills you need them as you both have children and I wonder could the solicitor come up with a plan that would suit both parties, you would be far from alone in this type of set up, it must be common? I kind of think your partner is 'more' right but as you said anything could happen in the future and to have a plan in place would seem sensible.

[Sandie9]

Thank you for your replies. We will both have critical illness policies which would give a financial income if either of us become ill. Of course, the other partner would 'look after and take care of' the other in terms of physical and emotional support. I know that I would 'leave' him something in my will if and when I have it but very disappointed that I wouldn't feature in his...

[Grumpyoldblonde]

Your partner though owns a property so really, in practical terms what would he need any of your money for? Anyway, your relationship is still fairly young, wills can be changed as your life does, maybe you will own a property together in the future, grandchildren may come along, life will evolve and your wills should evolve to reflect this.

[ImperialBlether]

In your situation I wouldn't leave a partner anything, either, well... except for some personal things from the house. It would be different if I was married. You've only been living together for two years - it's not long enough to make decisions like that, I don't think.

I assume he had his house (or a house) right through his marriage - in that case I would say it 'belongs' to his children rather than to anyone new. Anything bought in the new relationship would belong there, in my opinion, so if you two bought a house together, each of you should leave each other a share of the house.

[Sandie9]

Whilst I tend to agree with a lot of what you're saying..He has also discussed us buying a holiday home together and that if he put a bit more of the deposit down then it should also go to his daughters! but that I could stay in it for the duration of my lifetime, I guess this one would have to be divided amongst our 4 children with it proportionately weighted towards his daughters.
I guess I admit to being selfish, in that these daughters are lazy and wouldn't help out in the house or with their dad and if I nursed him over many years for example, it would be nice to think that I was thought of at the end...None of us should think this way but if we admitted it we do..that they would receive everything even after me looking after him perhaps for years ( he is 10 years older than me, but of course you never know!).

[DontMindMe1]

to date, he is entitled and within his rights to leave his house, money and assets to his kids. However, him deciding that the majority of any JOINT future property should also go to HIS kids just because he is in a position to afford ' a bit more towards the deposit' right now would not sit well with me. His kids will already get everything else he has and the very least i am entitled to is 50% of any joint property.

Having no real assets to my name currently i would want to secure my own future - and there is no way i would hand OVER HALF my security to him, his kids or anyone else. Sure, you might be able to live there for the rest of your days -or holiday there - but in the longterm it means YOU have less assets/security for yourself or to leave to anyone else. Any joint property would be 50/50 as far as i'm concerned whilst retaining the right to live there indefinitely. If your relationship breaks down with him owning more than 50% of any property that leaves you with less money to finance your own life whilst he still has plenty.

But this is a HOLIDAY house! You're not even going to be LIVING in it! You will only use it a certain amount of times per year, his children/friends will also use it - yet it will be you (via him) who will paying for its upkeep. If he dies, will his children be willing to pay the higher percentage of upkeep as per their higher percentage of ownership - or will they force a sale instead? Or will they (or their friends) want to holiday there at the same time as you? What happens if you disagree on dates etc? Are you always going to have to 'settle' for second place because their 'needs' are greater than your own? Are all these eventualities/possibilities going to be covered legally so YOUR RIGHTS are protected no matter what happens in the future?

i think he's being very underhand, selfish and self serving actually. He and his kids already have more financial security lined up for the future than you have. Yet he still wants YOU to have less than 50% security in your OWN future!

[PitilessYank]

One possible compromise would be for you to act as a paid caregiver to him should he fall ill, with no expectation that he would leave you anything in the will. That way, your caregiving would be immediately acknowledged/rewarded, but the remains of his estate would go to his children.

My husband and I have agreed that if one of us dies and the other remarries, we would each expect the other to leave the bulk of our estate to our children, and not to another mature adult, who would then leave it to his/her kids.

My husband's father is on his third marriage (he has been widowed twice), and he is leaving 100% of his estate to his children. His wife is leaving her smaller estate to her children. I believe that the plan is if she ends up nursing him she will be given some funds to acknowledge that in real time, not after he dies.

[ImperialBlether]

Are you sure this is the right man for you? He's made it absolutely plain to you that you're on your own financially. He's also made it plain that any future investments of his will go to his children, not to you.

It sounds as though you're at an age where you should really be thinking about buying somewhere for some security for yourself. It also sounded as though you would inherit in the future, but of course that can't be guaranteed if nursing home fees have to be paid.

He's ten years older. I'd be telling him now not to rely on me to nurse him when he's older. He's not treating you like his family; that goes both ways.

[curiousc88t]

If you are not married...

I would look to securing your own future first

Then the future of your children

[Sandie9]

Thank you all for your thoughts. Yes,i need to secure my own future and he has said many times that i should save and get my own place and to help me do that i dont need to pay any rent in his/the rented house we are in ,which is reasonable. So i need to squirrel away as much as possible to get my own place which of course,after my day will go to my sons. The idea of a paid caregiver is in theory a good one but i wouldnt have it in me to ask payment,because surely if youre true partners who really love each other that should be what you do unconditionally...? Yes,i clearly am a soft touch...and have to stop being one!

[Sandie9]

Regarding the holiday home,he has said the yesterday that he will buy it with a bonus he got,so of course that will go to his daughters now. It may become the place we end up living together in and if so i would wish that he stated in a will that i could live in it to the end of my days if i so wished,with it going to his daughters afterwards.

[ILiveAtTheBeach]

I don't think you can expect more, until you get married (if you do so one day). I have been with my DH for 7 years, married for 2.5 years. I didn't change my will until after we married. You need to stand on your own two feet and not be reliant on inheriting!

[Scremersford]

I think you are right to be concerned about what might happen if one of you dies before the other. Morbid I know, but a woman at my work ended up basically being kicked out of her family home by her deceased husband's children from his first marriage, as he left them the family home which was in his name, and she was only entitled to the basic minimum legal rights. She had to find emergency council accommodation as the family couldn't wait to get her out. She had spent all of her savings renovating what was a pretty old fashioned house too, caring for her husband and paying for them both to go on holiday together, and lost all of that. Awful shock for her.

I wouldn't buy any property with this man that he is going to leave to his children. Its a difficult situation because everyone wants a share of the pie, but generally the sensible solution is for the new spouse to be granted a "liferent" in the will - the right to stay in the family home for the rest of their life, after which it reverts back to whoever was left it in the will.

There is of course nothing to stop you buying property in joint names and you leaving your share to whoever you wish, in whatever percentage terms the joint ownership is calculated. I'd also make sure that any tenancy agreement is in joint names. I think if you are in a position to buy even somewhere quite small right now, that would be a good idea. Rent it out if necessary.

To be honest, this man is telling you who he is. He's 10 years older than you, and while he is willing to enjoy your company for as long as it suits him, he doesn't really care about what happens to you in the future, or when he is no longer around.

[DontMindMe1]

The idea of a paid caregiver is in theory a good one but i wouldnt have it in me to ask payment,because surely if youre true partners who really love each other that should be what you do unconditionally...?

In an ideal world where you either had tons of money stashed away to pay for things - yes. However, unless you accept payment you may well find yourself in a precarious financial position. If you have to give up work to care for him - how will you finance your own life? I've seen other people do it and they only realised too late how much their personal finances took a hit and the domino-effect it had on everything else. Plus it's not like you will be 'inheriting' anything from him anyway so after he's gone you will be left with nothing to show for all your hard work and sacrifices.

He's made it clear that you're on your won regards your financial security so i don't understand why you're allowing your romantic notions to cloud your judgement re getting paid to care for him. It's still a job at the end of the day which is why others get paid to do it.

[DontMindMe1]

and surely - if you were 'true' partners - then why isn't he thinking of your future 'together' and making you a part of his life and ensuring that you will be secure/provided for in any of these eventualities?

i'm sorry to say this but he's not thinking of you in terms of 'true partner'. You're on your own regards securing your financial future and it would be incredibly stupid and naive of you to provide care for free at your own expense. you sound rather passive and naive, like you'll accept any crumbs and cling on to romantic notions to keep him in your life whereas he's already decided that you don't matter to him in the same way.

[julialavincere]

He's telling you who he is.

You need to start financially planning as if you were alone, because that's basically your financial status and will be as long as you are in this relationship.

I wouldn't say jump ship if it a good emotional relationship and meets your other needs, but even if he's on mega-bucks (assuming from talk of bonus paying for holiday home he earns lots more than you) he isn't thinking of using any of it to obtain any security for you.

It doesn't make him a bad man and it isn't the first relationship to have transpired like this, but you need to think about your own property and pension and increasing earnings if necessary. Go creative, could you buy with sons or friends if you can't do it solo?

Trust me, when you get into the swing of it you'll be awesome and it will give you a massive confidence boost.

[Sandie9]

Thank you all again for your views and advice.. I know I have to secure my own financial future and will strive hard to do this from now on in. The relationship is good but I will see how it pans out over the next months and/or couple of years. I am looking into getting a house in my home country,near my family (I moved to live with him), so that I always have a back up if things dont work out with us. I have to be realistic, obviously I hope they do but if not I at least, will have a roof over my own head. I gave up a lot to be with him by moving away from my immediate family and friends and home town so my heart and my head is telling me to have a place there as a comfort and a possible back up:)