ethical dilemma DV and DC

[hairbrushbedhair]

In a situation where I know DV is occurring, there's substance addiction, MH issues - everything really.

It's common knowledge in our neighbourhood and being reguarly reported anonymously and not anon too. Police often attend. Their DC have social workers. Tbh family is engaged with every sort of agency out there. It's not up to us as neighbours to decide why 2 small DC still remain in the property but they do and we are flabbergasted at how long (maybe 2years now?) since this began

I have spoken to the woman and said I am worried. As have most neighbours.

What if anything can we do now? Just ignore it? I am morally struggling with what I could possibly do and frustrated with why it's being knowingly allowed to continue for so long. It's honestly not hidden

[AliceInUnderpants]

This is so sad

I would be tempted to contact the relevant agency whenever I knew an incident was occuring.

[hairbrushbedhair]

I think unless everyone is lying about 5-6 different people are doing so each time, plus surely police share instantly? The DC must be on some form of plan

[hairbrushbedhair]

Well iv tipped off social services again and told "family is known there's ongoing involvement"...

Yes and there has been for 2 years nearly. It's still happening!

Is there anything I can do on a practical level? My heart breaks but wary of getting over involved personally.

[BertieBotts]

You can't. You can give the victim information about DV charities or support, you can try to befriend and be there for her, but it's likely that she knows this, and has friends. Unfortunately DV is very difficult, psychologically, to wriggle out of - lack of support and lack of resources are far less likely to affect likelihood of leaving, though of course they are still important. Many, many women have support and resources but are not emotionally ready to leave, and there is nothing you can do. Services will remove the children if she doesn't get to that point quickly enough, it is heartbreaking!

I think that there is nothing you can do for this family. What you can do for the future is raise respectful, non sexist children who aren't afraid to question things, who understand consent, who do not feel that violence is a normal or rational reaction to any situation.

[hairbrushbedhair]

I don't think it's one way DV. Just baffled at being "allowed" to continue by all agencies for so long

[BertieBotts]

I suppose that they are giving it time to see if it works out. Must be difficult to watch, though :(

[RandomMess]

I guess you do need to keep reporting it so the agencies know that the situation isn't improving.

I think all the research shows that dc are better off staying in their birth families wherever possible hence the parents being given a lot of opportunity to sort themselves out.

[goddessofsmallthings]

Has anyone called the NSPCC?

[BertieBotts]

The NSPCC just report to SS - they don't do anything themselves.

[goddessofsmallthings]

That is not the case, Bertie.

The NSPCC has statutory powers to intervene on behalf of children and in England, Wales, and Northern Ireland only local authorities and the NSPCC can apply to a court for a care, supervision, or child assessment order.

An anonymous or otherwise call to the NSPCC relaying the ongoing incidents of dv, substance addiction, and mental health issues, all of which pose a continued risk of significant harm to 2 young dc, will result in enquiries being made of the local authority in question as to what action is being taken to safeguard them.

If, as often happens, more urgent cases have taken precedence, an enquiry from the NSPCC will ensure it is given priority as the local authority will be required to report back.

[loveyoutothemoon]

Have you actually witnessed/heard anything personally? Call the police.

[rumbleinthrjungle]

It may be everything that can be done is being done, removing children is absolutely the final decision when everything else has failed, interventions have to be given time to work or to prove that despite all the right help the family can't respond enough. And sometimes the professionals can be strongly recommending children don't stay in the home but a judge will still decide to see how things go for just another three months (and then another three months).

Serious case reviews refer again and again to too much attention being given to trying to get adults to get it together often over long periods of time without enough attention being focused on what the children's experience is during that time and the effect on them, and it's awful. It must be awful for you to be aware. But being removed from your parents is awful too.

[Robotgirl]

I agree with Goddess. Call the NSPCC. Sounds like the kids are massively at risk. Multi-agency working isn't always happening as much as you think.

[hairbrushbedhair]

NSPCC have been called several times

As have social services

As have police

As have ambulance

I think they call police on each other too... They don't hide the arguments, they spill out onto the street

I do appreciate giving them time but on MN and IRL I know of other situations where couples have been told to split immediately, well to live seperately anyways

This is almost 2 years I think now iirc

[laughingatweather]

Then there's nothing else you can do. All relevant agencies are involved.

Awful for you to witness/hear but it's out of your hands and clearly is in the hands of the people that should be.

[hairbrushbedhair]

I haven't personally witnessed the violence. I have heard what I suspect is it, and apparently she tells neighbours it's happening. I actually thought it was a bit of a smear campaign by neighbours initially until I heard the noises. Iv paid far more attention since

[hairbrushbedhair]

Ok I guess all can be done is keep reporting

So so difficult!

I don't want to see a family split up but I hate knowing the DC have been witnessing for over a year already along with the other issues

[pocketsaviour]

Are the DC in school? Do you know anyone at that school? They might already be involved if the kids are on the At Risk register.

[lavent]

This is so sad to read.

I'd keep reporting as and when you witness incidents and reiterate that you feel the children are at significant risk and you are very concerned about their welfare.

In my (limited) experience with children's services, they are very over stretched and you need to be very clear with them that this is serious.

What an awful situation

[TeenAndTween]

Please keep reporting every time you witness an incident.

It took 6 years worth of issues for my ADD to be removed into care. It has a long lasting effect. Every report helps build a picture up.

[PoundingTheStreets]

I find this quite puzzling. Based on what you've said OP I'd say they're probably part of the Troubled Families initiative and so probably quite heavily monitored. Based on the level of public services involvement, I'm quite surprised that 2 years down the line the children haven't been removed because of the risk of significant emotional harm if nothing else.

[goddessofsmallthings]

Have you called the NSPCC yourself, OP?

Regardless, I would suggest you call them (again) and say that despite police and Childrens Services involvement, for the past two years 2 young dc have continued to live in a home where dv is rife and there is substance abuse and add that it's believed that one/both of the dps have mental health issues.

Say that this isn't the first time you've called or As far as you're aware others have previously brought this matter to attention of the NSPCC... and if nothing is done to safeguard these children in the near future you intend to write to Edward Timpson, Minister of State for Children & Families with copies to your MP, to local and national press, and to the Charity Commission.

In situations such as this we can but keep on trying and,hopefully, another try will produce a favourable outcome for these little dc.

[lavent]

One more thing - I find emailing Children's Services has more effect than speaking on the phone. That way there's a paper trail....

[hairbrushbedhair]

Iv called multiple times now

So (apparently) have others

It's not my business why the DC haven't been removed... But I also am like others, shocked they're knowingly being put at such risk by multiple aware agencies

[hairbrushbedhair]

There's no school involvement but there are people who work in education locally aware (people who have a duty to report concerns due to their jobs know)