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Concerns about DD relationship. Not pregnant but has agreed with DP that will abort if it were to happen

(137 Posts)
rhapsodyinblues Wed 02-Sep-15 01:20:10

I have NC'd for this.

DD is in a stable relationship with Her boyfriend. They are both 23 and met at university. They have been together nearly 2 years. DD has just graduated but is unsure what she wants to do yet and BF has another year to go before graduating. She says she will look for a temporary job until BF graduates.

DP has bought a house jointly with his parents where he and my DD live. There is no mortgage (it's in a northern city). Originally I was going to buy half of the house so my DD and BF would own it jointly but I pulled out at the last minute as their relationship was going through a rocky patch and I had some concerns that BF might be a bit controlling. Also, that my DD should not be tied to a house and a city when she hadn't made any career plans.

There was a big falling out after i effectively threw BF out of my house as he seemed to be upsetting her when she was working for her Finals, although I was reconciled to DD within a couple of days. I met with BF at the graduation and he came to the family meals etc and all seemed to be fine - and still is. BF said I'd got him all wrong and DD is very much in love and is happy that all is well. She comes home a lot and we are close.

I have learned my lesson. I am standing back and will be very careful not to be critical of BF again. However. I am a bit worried about 2 things DD has recently told me. The first is that BF can't possibly be controlling as they have agreed to have an open relationship. The second is that they don't want to start a family right now and DD will have an abortion if she were to become pregnant.

The thing is that DD is a committed vegan. She won't even eat a hen's egg so I can't imagine her opening a conversation along the lines of 'if we have a baby we will abort it'. Is this normal? I can see that couples would discuss whether or not to have a family and when but isn't this a bit unusual? My DD said they'd 'had the talk' as though it were normal. Is it?

Also, because she doesn't want chemicals in her body she is apparently trying to prevent pregnancy through natural methods by taking her temperature etc. I have urged her to opt for a more reliable method and said that I would never judge anyone for having an abortion but that it is a very hard decision. She seemed to take this on board.

However, I am back to worrying again. I know it is not really my business but equally if it all goes wrong with BF she will be relying on us to help and support her and I just hate to see her hurt.

Has anyone else gone through this as I know I may be worrying unnecessarily and I can't discuss this with anyone in RL.

gobbynorthernbird Wed 02-Sep-15 01:26:38

If they're using such unreliable contraception methods, it's not surprising that they've discussed what will happen when if she gets pregnant.

As to the open relationship, is this a joint decision? One that DD is happy with?

Justawaterformeplease Wed 02-Sep-15 01:26:49

Is this the boyfriend that was very insistent about coming to the graduation, at your expense if necessary? I can't remember the exact details but the whole situation is ringing a few bells. Apologies if not!

Doraydiego Wed 02-Sep-15 01:29:05

What has being a vegan got to do with talking about terminations with her bf?

claraschu Wed 02-Sep-15 01:35:51

I would be far more worried if she were saying she wanted to have a baby. It seems very sensible for her to plan to have an abortion under the circumstances. I am vegetarian/ close to vegan, and at her age I would not have wanted to have a baby unless I were completely sure both the father and I were 100% committed to each other, and wanted and could care for a baby.

You say it is hard to imagine her saying: 'if we have a baby we will abort it'. PLEASE remember that you don't abort a baby; you abort a tiny embryo.

HamaTime Wed 02-Sep-15 01:37:33

I've read your other threads.

I don't think discussing abortion with your sexual partner is particularly strange. It is strange not to use a barrier method of contraception in an open relationship. It is strange to be in an open relationship given the (forgive me if I'm mis-remembering) arsiness he displayed towards your dd's male flatmates in the past.

goddessofsmallthings Wed 02-Sep-15 01:41:04

There's no shortage of vegan condoms on the market and your dd is best advised to put them to good use as they may go some way to reduce the number of times she'll need to attend a GUM clinic if she and her boyfriend engage in sexual relations with other partners.
www.vegan.com/condoms/

rhapsodyinblues Wed 02-Sep-15 01:41:10

Yes Water, it's the same one but I don't want anyone to prejudge the position.

DD says that they have agreed both decisions, but I just can't imagine her raising these topics.

Verypissedoffwife Wed 02-Sep-15 01:46:16

I can't comment on the rest of it - just the pregnancy thing.

My daughter is only 14 and hasn't even had sex but she has thought about what would happen if she accidently got pregnant (due to a girl at school getting pregnant). She did say she'd probably have a termination. So I can see that if my 14 year old daughter could have that conversation with her mum on something that may or may not happen on the future, I'd hope she'd have the same conversation with her boyfriend when she starts a sexual relationship.

That wouldn't be my worry at all.

My worries would be:
Lack of reliable birth control
Protection from stds - particularly due to open relationship
And - who's idea was the open relationship?
And are both parties equally comfortable with that?

Verypissedoffwife Wed 02-Sep-15 01:48:45

Sorry did actually manage to comment on all of it after all!

Cabrinha Wed 02-Sep-15 02:06:01

1. She is being VERY stupid relying on rhythm method, and it must be so hard to not give her a bloody good shake for that.

2. Choosing to abort your own embryo is totally different kind if choice than veganism!

3. The most worrying thing to me is the open relationship. I don't doubt some people make tags work brilliantly. I also don't doubt that the vast majority of the time it's really a suggestion driven by the man so he can put his cock wherever he wants. Your poor daughter, and poor you. I know you're worried about driving her away, but I'd try for one conversation about how she feels about him fucking other women. Whether she actually plans to do it herself. I think she has told you because she doesn't want it, and it's a cry for help. At least push her to use condoms with the other men (there won't be other men, she doesn't want it, I'm sure) and especially with him.

You poor poor thing sad

mathanxiety Wed 02-Sep-15 02:28:28

What role does DD play in the household given the open relationship?
What does Open Relationship mean here -- is he allowed to have other partners or is DD or are they both free?

What I find worrying about this is that using natural family planning while in an open relationship and being open to abortion should she become pregnant may be as a result of BF refusing to use a condom. Refusal to use a condom, if this is the case, would be a red flag for me. Yes, I understand she doesn't want to alter her body by means of the Pill, but the alternative is usually condoms. NFP is notoriously difficult to learn and use and has a high failure rate.

The open relationship thing would be very worrying. I would try to tease out exactly what this entails.

My worry is that this is a man who is quite indulged by his parents -- lives in a house while finishing university, has an open relationship, lives with his GF who allows the open relationship, allows him not to use condoms...

If your DD were to get pregnant and for some reason not to have an abortion, I fear she would be dumped. Or he would sigh hugely and foist an open marriage on her where she would end up home with the DC(s) and he would be off living the high life.

A big question:
Why are her career plans on hold for the moment?
At this point in her life your DD should not -- make that NOT -- have put her career on hold.

rhapsodyinblues Wed 02-Sep-15 02:28:33

Thanks Cabrinha. No, she isn't interested in anyone else.

I think she would be upset if he went with anyone else.

Having read some other threads about abortion on these boards, I don't think it is an easy decision even when there are sound logical reasons. Of course it would be better not to get into that position in the first place.

rhapsodyinblues Wed 02-Sep-15 02:32:36

Ma. That is actually my biggest concern - instead of planning her career her life revolves around him and I still have doubts about him. I really wanted to believe I had got it all wrong about him and everything was fine.

Tiptops Wed 02-Sep-15 02:34:10

I remember your previous thread, and although you want answers without prejudging, I think considering how controlling the boyfriend has been previously the history is relevant.

I don't think the pregnancy plans are unusual. I have certainly discussed what we would potentially do if there was an unplanned pregnancy in previous relationships, and have talked about it with female friends too. Being aware of the potential scenarios you could face is responsible really. Whether you'd stick to the plan you make if you find yourself in the situation could be a whole different matter though. Just because she says she would abort doesn't mean she would once in that position. In the context of what her boyfriend is like, I'd be worried he would use her agreement to abort now against her if she found herself pregnant and with a change of mind, 'you AGREED we would abort, you can't go back on it now!'

The open relationship and lack of contraception is far, far more worrying. She is leaving herself wide open to all types of diseases, some which are incurable. If you've discussed all this you must have a good relationship with her, could you probe a bit further and find out whose idea this 'open relationship' is? I bet it wasn't her idea and she has no plans to sleep with other men. It's an agreement engineered by him so he can sleep around while keeping her waiting for him at home.

I'm sorry OP but he is just a horrible, controlling creep of a man. I really hope your DD sees the light and leaves him soon.

TheHouseOnTheLane Wed 02-Sep-15 02:35:49

I think that while your concerns are valid, you need to step back and let her grow up and learn through experience. You seem (naturally) to be VERY invested in her life....but she's an adult....if my Mother had known so much about my relationship when I was 23 she'd have been very unhappy....I think you need to separate yourself from her relationship....if she tells you things off her own back then nod, advise and stow it away.

Italiangreyhound Wed 02-Sep-15 03:05:44

rhapsodyinblues I can completely see why you are worried.

You sound like a lovely mum. You say I know it is not really my business Of course it is your business, she is your child.

It doesn't mean you get to tell her what to do, but it is your business.

I think it all sounds pretty worrying to me. It sounds like he is controlling, how can a woman possibly know if she wants to keep a baby before she is pregnant. I find the idea of using a unreliable method of contraceptive with a man you are not fully comfortable with (she must not be completely comfortable after family rows/you not going in on the house with him/open relationship etc - committed - not - my guess?

To me (IMHO) to plan how you will get rid of the baby if you do get pregnant, that all sounds very sad. No offence to anyone who has had an abortion or is planning one but many women do find it a terribly difficult decision and to be pushed into it 'effectively' before it happens! That is shocking to me and unless it is 100% consensual it sounds controlling.

I have had a lot of fertility issues and I feel that biological desires to have a baby can be pretty strong, your dd may feel differently if she gets pregnant, how will she or he cope, she would in some way be tied to him if she had a baby and chose to keep it.

I could have read it wrongly but it does sound controlling and like she may have been pushed into it. Plus if they have a genuinely open relationship and she has sex with an unreliable birth control method with another partner then she may well not know whose baby it is anyway, so it may well not be down to the boyfriend to say what he thinks about it at all!

Anyway, sadly, you won't be able to tell her what to do, and she is a young woman so she will make her decisions. Maybe she will decide on a career that takes her away from him, to a new city, maybe you will get to invest your money in a bachelorette pad for her elsewhere. in your shoes that would be what I would be hoping for!

My worries aside from the possibility she will have an abortion or a a pregnancy that does does not want AND that she may have a so called 'open relationship', which she may not want, (which frankly I feel is pretty euw - I mean I think young people normally want to feel their partner only has eyes for them, or am I terribly old fashioned (and happy to be!).

So aside form all that crap my worries would be:

She is in a relationship that has not been going for even two years, she is very young, they are not married, maybe only living together because his parents could afford to buy him a place and in your words 'as their relationship was going through a rocky patch' - I don't feel that is necessarily 'stable', to me and in her shoes I would want to keep my options open and not run the risk of getting pregnant or being pushed into an abortion (if that would be the case).

She is effectively putting her career on hold for a year for him, until he graduates, not sure if he would do the same for her (would he?)

Re BF said I'd got him all wrong and DD is very much in love and is happy that all is well. what does your dd say, in private?

Re living in the house no mortgage, so she will maybe not pay any mortgage or rent, she will pay for food and stuff, and when/if the relationship breaks up he will have a house! While if she bought a home with another friend/a different man/you guys she would pay a mortgage and food but end up with the asset of a home. He has effectively cut her options down while looking like he is generous!

And finally, to me, the most telling comment is "She comes home a lot and we are close." I wonder if she is so in love with him why she comes home so much?

In your shoes I would make it clear if she is not happy she can come home. No ifs or buts, no expectations on your part, no 'I told you do', just what is best for her. She is your priority, not this man who wants an open relationship with a woman who is very much in love with him (off to be sick in a bucket).

It's late so am being rather judgemental, I am sure he is a lovely lad!

Verypissedoffwife Wed 02-Sep-15 03:15:26

I've not read your previous threads but whatever your misgivings were at the time (before this latest bombshell ) were probably well founded. I know my daughter is a few years younger than yours but I can well imagine how I'd feel on your position. This situation isn't really good enough for my daughter - I'm sure you feel the same.

It's mainly the "open relationship" and how that came about.

And you're right - a termination is never easy. Especially for a woman.

rhapsodyinblues Wed 02-Sep-15 03:24:18

Lane. I take your point. Believe me, I don't ask about these things. Like you, I would never have discussed these things with my mother. I would rather not know in a way because it makes me worry and I feel helpless. She told me and her sister over a drink the other day. She is on holiday with us for 10 days. Before that she came home for a week even though it was so close to the holiday. Even her sisters ask why she keeps coming back. However she says she is happy and they have been in touch by Skype.

Greyhound thank you so much for such a long and helpful thread. You are exactly right in what I wish for! I don't want to see her hurt. I believe she is paying some rent and sharing bills but I have not asked. She has some savings and I have continued to pay her allowance for a few months after graduation in order to help her have time to look for a job. The house was very much a doer upper and she has been helping with the painting and decorating so I assume he hasn't felt able to charge too much whilst they were sleeping on an air bed! Maybe she comes home because it is more comfortable!

Italiangreyhound Wed 02-Sep-15 03:30:57

rhapsodyinblues an airbed with the man you love may well be comfortable. I may be wrong but I think she comes home because she needs you. Maybe her sister can get at the truth. Maybe a few more girls nights out or in with you and your daughters and she will admit how she feels, if she does indeed feel that way!

I've not read any previous threads of yours.

I thin kin your shoes if she hints at unhappiness I'd just be totally matter of fact, well you can always come home and look for a job from here, eve if not permanent you could put her up for a bit (I assume) and she could start looking at graduate programmes or better jobs now instead of wasting a year (I never got on a proper career track and now earn peanuts - in a job I quite like - but I wish I'd capitalised on my degree when I got it! Just be careful not to push her into a corner, make it clear it is her choice. She could even get a job elsewhere and go up to visit him, I bet in no time she would not be doing that.

To be honest it doesn't sound like he is committed to her, open relationship and all that, so why should she sleep on a camp bed and put her career on hold for him.

Good luck.

rhapsodyinblues Wed 02-Sep-15 04:01:51

Thanks greyhound. We still keep her room and she doesn't want anyone else to have it as she has previously said she may need to come back so perhaps you are right.

Italiangreyhound Wed 02-Sep-15 04:07:32

It's not unheard of for me to be right, but these are just guesses based on what you ahve said. Do let us know how it all works out!

grin

Bless you, must go to bed now, night night.

TheHouseOnTheLane Wed 02-Sep-15 04:17:42

When I look back to my bad relationship at the same age, my Mum just did as you are doing...offered continuing support and didn't judge. I knew she didn't like him.

In terms of her lack of contraception....I've been practicing the same method for the past 7 years with no hiccups but I'm not as young as she....not as fertile.

Could you suggest a diaphragm?

Samantha28 Wed 02-Sep-15 04:22:45

So can I just check ?

They have an " open relationship " in which he sleep with other people but she doesn't

She is risking her health by having unprotected sex with a man who has sex with others

She's risking an unwanted pregnancy by using a very unreliable method of contraception

She has agreed that if they do conceive a baby , she will have an abortion , ( even though you think she doesn't agree with it ) . And if she does decide to continue any pregnancy, presumably she has agreed to bring up the child without any support from him ?

She pays money towards a property he owns but she doesn't .

She is putting her career on hold for him

She has been helping him renovate a house which he and his parents own but she has no stake in. I bet she doesn't even have a tenancy agreement , so they can throw her out without notice .

You have other reasons for thinking he is controlling

Although she professes to be happy, she spend a lot of time at your home

Yes, I'd be very worried too if she was my daughter . I think you are doing everything you can .

scallopsrgreat Wed 02-Sep-15 04:26:09

He sounds pretty controlling to me and I don't know any back story.

However, like others, I don't understand what being a vegan has to do with abortion.

I'd also say that making the decision to have an abortion isn't necessarily hard. If you want one. I think making decisions about what will happen if you become pregnant before you are pregnant, is hard. And controlling from her BF's perspective. What would happen if she changed her mind?

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