"f#@& off all you do is moan"

[pastaratatouille]

He's probably right and I could probably use some tips on how to stop.

Background:
I recently recovered from PND and one of my big triggers for low mood appears to be the constant thinking about routine/ organisation etc with having a young child. DS is almost 1 now and it has gotten a lot easier, but still its me doing most of the planning and thinking, still directing my DH on what to do at what times, even though he claims he would do it automatically if I wasnt there to remind him. Annoying?!

He's so bloody untidy. However, Ive given up telling him about it. That's until last night, 6 weeks after him leaving a pile of paper, empty toilet roll holders, crisp wrappers etc on his bedside table. I couldnt bare to look at it anymore!

He never puts his washing in to the basket, its always in a pile in the bedroom, then he asks why I havent washed his work clothes. Uh hum.

He never puts things away.

He's constantly 'busy' with a range of important jobs like car fixing, garage sorting, leaving me to most of the housework and tidying at the end of the week! Now that Ive also gone back to work I'm feeling overwhelmed by it all. We both have demanding jobs, although I now work part-time.

I realise that what I'm describing here is standard lazy man behaviour, but how do I stop nagging? This morning, his outburst came as a product of him leaving our DS on our bed for me to finish dressing when I was still half way through dressing myself whilst he went downstairs to do something else. Our arrangement is that he gets DS ready in the mornings so that I can get myself ready, then I do breakfast. He just doesnt think at all. He admits this but says 'it's how I am, you cant just try and change me' which I find completely lazy and ridiculous.
So I snapped at him this morning, " Im still trying to get myself ready for heaven sake" and the subject line was my response. I am also fed up of nagging. How can I stop?! I miss laughing but I just feel so irritated and overwhelmed by DH, I cant relax and unwind from constant organising and thinking. Please be kind!

[Sighing]

He's not lazy. He's a twit who expects you to walk around behind him picking things up.
He's putting you on the back foot by calling it nagging. Call him out on his childish behaviour.
As for not nagging, there is a point where you have to let him fuck up so he will take responsibility which he should as an adult. Ask him. Perhaps keep a household calendar or a list on the fridge. Should he complain (which he will as he is avoiding all self responsibility) calmly shrug and remind him that was his job.

[WaltJunior]

I don't nag I refuse to be turned into a 'nag' by him. This causes festering resentment and we are now separating. My mum said I should've just nagged him that's what men need to stop behaving like children apparently

[BugPlaster]

I have this to an extent. Tell him that isn't moaning, it's stating a fact. Tell him to do his bit or things won't get done - like his washing pile. Use a calm, unmoany voice and remind him you are both parents.

[AttilaTheMeerkat]

His behaviour is that of an abusive twunt who is also putting you on the backfoot by calling you a nag.

Do you want your son to grow up thinking that his dad's behaviour is acceptable; you are also showing him that this is acceptable to you currently. Is this really what you want to teach him about relationships?.

[GilbertBlytheWouldGetIt]

Nagging is a sexist term which is used only to shut down a woman who is reasonably fed up with repeated requests.

If he did his fair share, you wouldn't have to repeatedly ask.

You can't win. Either you spend your life tolerating mess, or you wear yourself out trying to get him to share the household jobs, or you do it all on your own.

Might as well be single, have a lovely clean flat, and no nagging after a selfish man.

[pastaratatouille]

Thanks for your support. I thought I might come across as a nagging pain in the arse, which to be honest, I am. I should add that I am being really unreasonably irritable with him at times, but I think it's all a product of me being fed up with his lazyness and inability to 'think' when I'm around. Last night I snapped about him eating too loudly, picking at his nails, fidgeting etc. I think I'm just pissed off with him being bone idol, I'm picking at everything he does. Last night, he was 'soooo tired' when he came home, but I guess that's what happens when you go out until 11pm 2 nights on the trot on a work night when you have massive deadlines to meet too! His lack of ability to think and plan is pathetic, but I'm supposed to accept that it's the way he is when it impacts on family life! Argh.

[pastaratatouille]

Next time he says I'm nagging, Gilbert, I shall quote your brilliant definition of nagging!

[AttilaTheMeerkat]

You have a choice re this man and such entitled men do not change. You have more angry as a direct result of his behaviour towards you; its shows complete disrespect for you and his surroundings.

He is not a good role model for your son either.

Presumably too this man's mother did everything and ran around after everyone at home whilst his own father sat in idleness too.

[GilbertBlytheWouldGetIt]

I must point out at this point that my XH started out this way, but changed over time due to a combination of factors:

• he had been brought up with a mother who ran around after the menfolk, so hadn't ever had to notice the minutiae of tasks that go into running a house; this meant his laziness was actually born of ignorance and not selfishness.
  
• I spent a lot of time pointing out inequality. Not just in the home but in all walks of life. He's an intelligent person and after a few years became a reasonably well informed feminist.
  *I became very mentally ill at one stage and he had to take over everything (I don't recommend this as a strategy).
  
  Main purpose of this post is to demonstrate that a person can change, but it very much depends on the type of person they are to begin with.
  If he's an unreconstructed sexist git from an old fashioned family, you have a battle you won't win.

[Anniegetyourgun]

I'm glad to see you don't wash his work clothes if they don't make it into the basket.

People can't change their fundamental natures but they can change their habits.

[pastaratatouille]

That's really helpful Gilbert. Luckily, he's a very intelligent, sensitive-in-some-ways, can-be-insightful type. Just a little ignorant and reluctant to change. But I think I could change his some of his ways for the better. Nagging doesn't work though, that's for sure.
I think pointing out inequalities in other male/female situations is a good place to start.
His mother never tidied up after him Attila, but accepted his ways as 'the way he is' which is why I'm supposed to accept it too. Her house is tidy now! His Dad has similar traits, also he is a hoarder who now has a range of sheds for his stuff and his Mum shoves all his things in there. Unfortunately, we don't have room for more sheds!

[GilbertBlytheWouldGetIt]

Excellent, so there's hope yet!

Does he realise it's important to you, and not just a noise you enjoy making?

[GilbertBlytheWouldGetIt]

I agree, it's good that you don't do his washing unless it's in the basket.

May I suggest you don't do his washing at all? If he asks why you haven't done it, ask him why he hasn't. Preferably in a bored tone.

[WaltJunior]

Hallelujah gilbert

[scallopsrgreat]

It's amazing how all his 'important' jobs take him out of the house leaving the childcare and everything else to you. Just amazing. Imagine my surprise .

I think telling him about the impact his behaviour has on you and your child's life is a good start. It will also tell you whether that matters to him and what/who his priorities are and you can take it from there. He certainly sounds pretty selfish.

[QuiteLikely5]

Does he have any strengths?

My dh does the garden, bins, dishwasher (in & out) all DC bedtimes, cleans shower and anything else I ask.

Those things above are what he can do and he does them well.

Yes I wish he would sometimes have the burden that I have with managing it all but he doesn't and I've done it for years.

All I'm saying is pick your battles. If he ain't lazy and he is willing then it's not all doom and gloom.

And I don't think you should be constantly picking on his habits either. Best look the other way. It's a bit late now. You had a kid so imo you should have realised all of this prior to that.

Good luck

[pastaratatouille]

He will realise how important it can be that he's able to think and take responsibility himself and changes for a short while, but then his busy car fixing, garage sorting to-do list takes priority and he 'forgets'
Gilbert, another of his excuses for being lazy.
He isnt a tidy person so if I stop doing things it wouldnt phase him that the house is in a state. So stopping what I do isnt really an option either.Of course, he does the odd job like the hoovering etc now and then but its the having to get on his back and organise him in the first place thats really getting me down here. I need him to think for himself, like adults do, like he manages to do at work, rather than me feeling brain fried by thinking for the 2 of us all the time.

[Janette123]

pastaratatouille,
This sounds exhausting!
How about getting a cleaner in for a couple of hours a week? If you have just come out of PND the last thing you need is more stress.
And, tell him once that you won't wash his clothes unless he puts them in the basket. Then stick with that. If he complains, point him towards the washing machine.

[GilbertBlytheWouldGetIt]

is it the appropriate time to suggest a little light reading?

[Spell99]

You might try not mixing your genuine points with gripes such as eating loudly. All he can do is ignore/blank those out and he may be carrying that philosophy through to everything that does matter. At least a different tone to make it clear this is part of a different discussion.

[DonkeysDontRideBicycles]

Having a child really separates the men from the boys sometimes. I bet you are not a nag by nature but his attitudes send you spinning. I agree, pick your battles. He needs to learn that when you (both) started a family, some aspects of life had to change, whether he anticipated that or not, because that's what happens when we grow up. Don't get sidetracked by comparatively minor stuff like table manners or the fidgets.

[Lweji]

'it's how I am, you cant just try and change me'

I agree with others that you should concentrate on the important points, but, faced with this, you can only agree with him.
But you can give him two choices. He changes himself enough or he can go.

He has no excuse to have left his child half way dressed for you to do it.

But you could have simply said: No, that's your job. (and repeat)

[frankbough]

Maybe you should fix the car and sort the garage out and work fulltime...
And what kind of employment is part time and demanding.. Oxymoron surely...??

Trying to change someone is like wrestling with the wind, pointless, fruitless waste of mental energy..

[GilbertBlytheWouldGetIt]

Yeah, maybe you should do all the other work as well as the wifework.

Lots of jobs can be part time and demanding. Try to imagine a demanding job. Then try to imagine doing it for fewer than 40 hours per week.