Divorce - unreasonable behaviour - advice needed please.

[ALaughAMinute]

My solicitor has suggested I go for an amicable divorce and has asked me to list 5 or 7 specific incidences of unreasonable behaviour.

How do I do this? Where do I start? I can't say he called me a "fucking old cow" yesterday because I asked him to give me a hand with the shopping bags can I?

I said I would email my solicitor a list over the weekend but I can't think of anything. I just feel numb.

Any tips?

[Handywoman]

Of course you can say that! Unreasonable is in the eye of the beholder. And I mean that sincerely. Some couples would talk to each other like that on a daily basis. For others it would be a line not to be crossed.

When my xh told me to 'shut the fuck up' it was totally not the norm for us and it was a deal breaker resulting in the ultimatum of go to the GP and sort out your anger or leave although I have since learned the important lesson that he was angry because he is abusive rather than the other way around and have LTB

[Handywoman]

On a more practical note: my solicitor asked me to write the main thrust of the UB down and she offered to draft a legally water tight yet non inflammatory version. Your SHL should be able to do the same. Just get it down on paper and take your solicitor's advice.

[ALaughAMinute]

Thanks Handy, I can't think of anything so I might ask my solicitor to write something generic for me.

[LazyLouLou]

If it will be amicable you just need to outline why you feel you are incompatible.

You say tomato he says tomayto type of thing.

So not being able to speak civilly to each other, having lost respect for each other, making financial and social decisions without discussion, disregarding each others opinions/requests, watching telly in different rooms, not sharing a bed/having sex... all those little things that wear you down and make sharing your lives unhappy.

[pocketsaviour]

You need to give specific examples, so you can say
"Called me a 'fucking old cow' when I asked him to help me with the shopping"
"Told me to 'Do it ya fucking self' when I asked him for help getting the kids dressed"
"Repeatedly refused to pick up the kids from school, making me take time off from work instead"
"Swore and shouted at our toddler for spilling his milk"
"refused to speak to me for 2 days after I rejected his sexual demands"
"Would not contribute money towards the baby's nappies and said I had to pay for them out of my maternity pay"
"Told me I was far too fat and ugly for anyone else to want"

etc etc.

Honestly it's a very wide umbrella term. And I suspect you have become so used to his shitty behaviour that you think calling you a "fucking old cow" somehow isn't unreasonable?

You can also put down things like
"We have not had a sexual relationship in over 12 months by his choice"
and
"He drinks heavily every evening but refuses to cut down"
or
"He smokes inside the house and in front of the children despite repeated pleas to smoke outside".

[Granville72]

OK, judging by your other post -

Emotionally / verbally abusive
Physically abusive
Steeling your possessions
Disposing of your personal and private documents

Is he -
Controlling with money
abusive to the children (if you have any)
refuses to help around the home
controls your life in any way - hobbies, work, social life?

[ALaughAMinute]

Thank you for your suggestions, definitely some food for thought here.

I think as my solicitor wants specific incidences I will have to start taking note of what happens, although it might be a bit late to do that now as he wants the list by Monday. I will definitely use yesterdays incident, but what about the fact that I don't want sex with him? Can I say I don't want sex with him because he's unloving and selfish?

Not sure what I can say about his controlling behaviour other than he controls everything and doesn't take my thoughts and feelings into consideration. Trouble is, that's not a specific incident is it? I could also say he's unsociable and bad tempered but that's not specific ether.

Hmm, I can see this is going to be difficult especially as my daughter has her boyfriend staying this weekend so we will both be on our 'best' behaviour.

[43percentburnt]

Give us an example of his bad temper and him being unsociable.
How is he selfish?
Do you have equal access to leisure time?
How do you split the bills? Does he check your statements? do you have your own money to spend as you wish?
What does he control?

Tell us the little details that annoy you I'm sure we can help you word them (you'll probably not need any help once you get going!).

Ie he checks the credit card statement and questions whether I needed to spend that much on that item. I don't have access to my own credit card. Or he checks my personal credit card statement to see what I have spent my money on.
Or, he won't let me take my car to the garage for its service as he says I will get it wrong. If I took it without his permission he would say I had been ripped off and I am not capable.

[ALaughAMinute]

Thanks 43, I just thought of one:

We recently had an argument when we were having our evening meal and he threw his plate on the floor.

He controls everything including the finances but I'm not sure what I can say about that because I can't think of anything specific.

[Phoenix0x0]

What about the fact that he has hidden your passport?

What about he classes the family home as his?

I would start writing a list of things he has done. This way examples of this may pop into your head.

[Minime85]

Hi. I did mine myself after seeking solicitor advice in one session and looking on line. I only used two specific dated incidents which included him name calling and shouting at me. Other than that I put no sexual relationship, I was left out of his social time as he socialised without me, he sat in kitchen on his phone whilst I was in living room and wouldn't interact with me and that he left the marital home on the date he left. Judge didn't question it and went straight through and because I did it myself was a lot cheaper!

[Zebraface]

It can be anything OP
Not putting lid back on toothbrush
Breaking wind regularly
Having bad breath

It's just legal excuse for getting divorced. You can't challenge them,& don't take them to heart if you are on the receiving end. Just an excuse

[Anniegetyourgun]

Pushing and shoving, you said previously? That's definitely unreasonable.

[Katniramal]

not sure what I can say about his controlling behaviour other than he controls everything and doesn't take my thoughts and feelings into consideration. Trouble is, that's not a specific incident is it?

Because my ex's behaviour was so controlling, I put "I had to agree to every suggestion he made. There was no negotiation or consideration" then I listed a few incidents - being forced to go out when I was one week post hysterectomy unwell, spending money on large items without discussion, etc. Can you think of anything like that?

[IthoughtATMwasacashpoint]

Under what circumstances did he push and shove you? if it's happened a lot there are several instances.

He stole your bank statements and refused to return them

He has stolen your passport and is refusing to return it

2 examples there alone

[ALaughAMinute]

Phoenix, I can't be sure he's hidden my passport and in any case I think it was out of date. I'm writing a list but I don't want to post it on here in case he finds it. He does act as if the family home is his but again, it's hard to be specific. Good point though, I will think about that one.

Mini, I wish I could do mine myself but I don't think I could ever get my H to agree on anything. Interesting that you only used two dated incidents because I can think of two but can't think of any more. Hopefully two is enough then?

So far I've got two dated incidents plus a load of other stuff such as he's antisocial and we don't have sex etc. I've also said that he's bad tempered and slams doors all the time. And of course the fact that he says he hates me and can't wait to get rid of me, I'm quite getting into it now.

Zebra, breaking wind regularly? Yep, I could include that one!

Annie, I did say pushing and shoving but my solicitor has suggested I go for an amicable divorce. I think the idea being that we try to agree a financial settlement 'nicely' rather than get each others backs up. I wasn't sure at first but the more I think about it, the more I think it's the way to go. My solicitor is top of his game so hopefully he knows what he's doing. I guess time will tell.

Katn,

Because my ex's behaviour was so controlling, I put "I had to agree to every suggestion he made. There was no negotiation or consideration" then I listed a few incidents - being forced to go out when I was one week post hysterectomy unwell, spending money on large items without discussion, etc. Can you think of anything like that?

Nice one. That's a good way of putting it. I can definitely think of a few things like that.

The suggestions on this thread have been a great help to me. Thank you.

[Anniegetyourgun]

I think concrete examples are supposed to be within the last 6 months to show the behaviour is ongoing, btw - although stuff that happens less frequently, like annual holidays, you'd probably get away with referring to longer ago eg have not had family holiday for x years.

My solicitor asked me to come up with examples of unreasonable behaviour. I covered two sides of A4 in very small writing! He politely suggested we condense it into 5 or 6 recent examples. It was quite hard to decide what to leave out. I kept a diary at his suggestion so that I would have actual dates and times of recent incidents. I felt a bit weird and creepy doing it, but needs must. Then I found out XH had been keeping notes on me for the last 24 years, even before we married. Now that's creepy.

[ALaughAMinute]

Annie, OMG that is creepy, no wonder you got rid of him!

Interesting that you covered two sides of A4 in very small writing because as someone else said - once you start you can't stop! I'm doing quite well now after some of the suggestions on this thread.

Where would I be without you lot to help me eh?

[Minime85]

Yes I was told on mnet to use incidents in 6 months from date we separated and not from before that.

I honestly only had two dated things. Ex saw it before it went to court so it wasn't a huge slap in face when it arrived on his door mat. I initiated divorce but he left me so he would have had a bloody cheek to get annoyed about it. But it doesn't make anyone to blame if you think stbexh is worried about that? It's just a divorce.

Sounds like you have more than enough to be honest. More than I did.

Money stuff comes separately once decree nisi issued which is a different piece of paperwork

[ALaughAMinute]

Mini,

Sounds like you have more than enough to be honest. More than I did.

Funny to think I thought I didn't know what to say because once I got going I found I had more than enough as you say. I've now got 7 incidents with dates.

The incidents I've mentioned are all in the last six months and my solicitor said it was okay to give approximate dates if I couldn't remember.

I am very lucky to have Mumsnet, you have all been a great help to me. Thank you.

[Snoozybird]

I divorced exH for unreasonable behaviour "amicably" and still have the paperwork, PM me if you want a couple of examples as to how the incidents were worded on the actual divorce petition (which was granted by the court no problem).

Good luck

[ALaughAMinute]

Thanks Snoozy, I will.