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Awful awful relationship with ds1

(53 Posts)
winkywinkola Sun 21-Jun-15 14:01:23

He's ten.

Today he cut up his sister's magazine because she said something to annoy him.

Last night he tore up a sign she made for her door because she said something unkind to ds2.

Today he told me my breath smells so bad his ears have gone numb when I asked him to pick up his coat.

He teaches ds3 obscenities like sticking up two fingers. Ds3 is 2 years old.

He throws toys in anger. Pens that shatter against walls leaving ink splatters.

He deliberately will keep the whole family waiting for 15+ minutes whilst he doesn't get dressed, blows his nose or looks for a book he 'needs'.

We are not soft touches as parents. Nothing works to improve his behaviour.

He had had long rages since he was two. They are fewer now but his acts of cold spite and anger are very upsetting.

I look forward to when he's left home. Nobody can help. He's on the waiting list for MIND who apparently are taking over some of CAMHS work. To reduce their waiting lists.

He's an angel at school. Not at all popular but academically very able.

It's just always so very unpleasant if we need him to do something. Unless we just leave him to watch telly for hours or play on his tablet.

Does anyone else have this kind of behaviour in their docs?

winkywinkola Sun 21-Jun-15 17:29:47

He does nothing to help like even swap seats in the car unless he can have money for it. It is always for money.

DawnMumsnet (MNHQ) Sun 21-Jun-15 21:58:24

Hi there, we're moving this thread over to our Relationships topic at the OP's request.

NuttyCake Sun 21-Jun-15 22:06:24

I don't have any dcs that old so may not be a great help. But just an antidote from my weekend. Ds age 4.being shitty all week resulting in some rages by Friday afternoon. We got a piece of paper on Saturday morning and wrote out together a list of rules. His rules and our rules to have a happy weekend.
Result was a happy weekend! I was cynical but it worked. Also, I changed the password on my phone, which he was grabbing every chance he got all week that download games. It's like crack cocaine. He's an addict. Withdrawal for the weekend actually had a very pleasant effect once we could distract him. I think there a correlation between those bloody apps and bad behaviour. You 10 year old may have same issue.

Hestheone Sun 21-Jun-15 22:07:56

My Dd1 age 9 is very similar,every slightest thing causes world war 3,only happy if she's doing eEXACTLY what she wants,no amount of punishments seem to bother her,had behaviorist so involved,no help,as you said,angel in school and good as gold when at friends(very few friends,all bit younger).just like you,I can't wait til she's an adult and leaves home,which makes me feel like a failure as a parent and a horrible person,I think she must be so miserable if she's constantly trying to make those around her miserable too

catfishing Sun 21-Jun-15 22:16:22

Tbh he sounds similar to my 9 year old. He is hardwork. However much of what you describe would not rile me hugely. If you don't make a big deal and genuinely shrug it off it may all become much more harmonious and loving.
Suggestions (just an alternate example of parenting )

1. Magazine. Meh, they are disposable. Ignore andr pointedly discuss buying d new mag with her.
2. Room sign. Ignore him completely while ostentatiously giving d much attention and helping her make another.
3. Insults. I would respond with "well your breath is so bad thewhole town fainted" then change subject/leave to prevent escalation.
4. Throwing toys. Take toy and replace with soft ball "throw this if you are annoyed"

5. Dwadling DRIVES ME INSANE. No suggestion. I seethe.
6. Teaching 2 yr old. I would acknowledge it is funny but give examples of how it could cause problems - ie if he does it at wrong time.

elderflowerlemonade Sun 21-Jun-15 22:20:13

Gracious. Some strange advice here!

The magazine is disposable but it wasn't his hmm it's not very nice for his sister for mum to say 'meh' about it, is it? Same with the room sign. Point isn't whether it's valuable or not - it's not his, and 'meh' ing it is giving her the message it doesn't matter.

No way would I respond to insults like that hmm I am sorry your son spoke to you like that - how horrible.

No way would I tolerate throwing toys in anger.

He sounds quite disturbed really - have you had professional intervention?

winkywinkola Sun 21-Jun-15 22:39:57

Yes. I think he's disturbed.

When we could afford it we sent him to a counsellor. She felt he was very upset by the arrival of his sister when he was two.

He detests me. He detests everything I ask of him - getting dressed, cleaning teeth, homework.

He adores his dad. His dad too thinks he is disturbed but isn't the one who has to get him out of the door etc.

I'm at a loss. A terrible loss.

elderflowerlemonade Sun 21-Jun-15 22:41:13

Have you tried asking on 'children's mental health' on here? flowers

RJnomore Sun 21-Jun-15 22:43:32

It sounds like attention seeking to me. Obviously you have your hands full - do you manage one on one time with him?

RJnomore Sun 21-Jun-15 22:45:00

Although my ten yo is a terrible dawdled too. She just moves to the beat of a different drum.

Drives. Me. Insane.

She gets very stressed if rushed though.

SoldierBear Sun 21-Jun-15 22:45:44

He sounds very unhappy, and is taking that out on the people he knows love him because it is "safe".
And you sound very unhappy and stressed too.
You said he isn't very popular at school. Does he have friends he plays with out of school?

GotABitTricky Sun 21-Jun-15 22:53:32

Sounds tricky for sure.
How about setting limits for apps or tv or whatever he likes doing?

My 11 year old obsessed with Fifa game on xbox, but it is limited to 1 hour per day now, and he has accepted this now. I get him to time it himself per microwave clock he can see from xbox, and for every minute he goes over it loses 1 hour next day(s).
Sounds harsh, but it works a treat and its bang on 1 hour every day. Remote controls hidden for bad behaviour.

libertychick Sun 21-Jun-15 22:56:44

I have no experience of this but your description reminded me of stuff I have read about love bombing. Might be worth a try?

You sound very down about it all - perhaps worth you talking to your GP to see if you could get some counselling / support? flowers and wishing you all the best in getting through this.

LivingTheDr3am Sun 21-Jun-15 23:04:52

Try 1,2,3 magic.... It has some really good ideas. Even if it turns out that the problem is more complex than 'typical' 10 year old behaviours. I would also stop over thinking the idea he hated you. Kids like reactions. Divas and dictators is another good read. Ultimately whatever the outcome you can only control your reactions. It's good to have some strategies when you are being tested by your own darlings.

pallasathena Mon 22-Jun-15 10:40:36

Kids need boundaries. Letting them get away with unacceptable behaviour, not enforcing known and understood consequences always leads to a child feeling lost, kicking out, not being able to understand his or her fit in the family dynamic.

You said he's an angel in school. Schools enforce boundaries/consequences on a daily, routine basis. He probably reacts positively to that. He knows where he stands, he feels safe with the routine.

He's comparing you to his teachers and finding you wanting. Get assertive sooner rather than later because when he hits his teenage phase, you're in for a very tough time.

TheFlyingFauxPas Mon 22-Jun-15 11:03:26

Have you considered ASD? He sounds a lot like Ds (12) Since diagnosis (10) I have realised a lot of my attempts to parent were futile. Children with SEN often do not respond the same way to eg - consistency and consequences. Can lead to further anxiety and worse behaviour. I am gradually learning to pick my battles, change my mind if what I want to happen isn't going to happen and helping him relax more with a massge at night etc. Can it be he just cannot help it? If he's an angel at school it could be that he's masking and bottling it all up then blowing up at home. You say he's not popular. I'd say that's a red flag. Have you heard of PDA? Did you watch Born Naughty on ITV lately? I am unsure whether DS has PDA but it's basically asking children to do anything causes HUGE anxiety. However do you parent a child who gets anxious when you tell them what to do? What worked in the programme and what often works with DS is - using the authority of another eg using a timer rather than you saying it's time to.... the timer says... I also get DS's toys to tell him - they get way better results than me! Also being flexible and accepting eg DS is allowed to leave his clothes on the floor and I will pick them up. No more hours of shouting with still no result! A calmer, less anxious child therefor calmer house for all is the reward.

Sophiste Mon 22-Jun-15 11:07:02

PDA (pathological demand avoidance) sprang to my mind too, though I am no expert. Friends of mine took their DS for a private professional assessment - perhaps worth considering if you can afford it?

winkywinkola Mon 22-Jun-15 11:13:56

He has boundaries. I'm so hard on him a lot of the time. He's always being told off. Always losing his tablet and telly time. It's just eroding him. It's terrible but I can't let him get away with the stuff he says/does. It doesn't make any difference to his behaviour.

He is also obsessed with his toys and things - obsessed about owning them, nobody else owns them and gets terribly upset if one of siblings might even think they own a toy of his, not him. He worries about visitors stealing his things too.

I'm very interested in the idea of using another authority like the timer.

I will research PDA. I thought he might have ODD. God. Labels, etc.

I really don't enjoy parenthood at all. It seems to be constant conflict because I would like him to have clean teeth, get dressed and be at school on time.

AliMonkey Mon 22-Jun-15 11:16:32

Have you read "The Explosive Child"? I found it really helpful recently as DS has similar outbursts (tearing things up, throwing toys) and the gist of it is to understand that children aren't normally deliberately doing these things to wind you up, it's because they don't have the necessary tools to deal with situations, so we need to help them to learn those tools. There's an associated website: I can't yet tell you whether it will work with DS, but seems to have worked for many others, so worth a try.

I suspect it isn't always the reason, but definitely worth a read and seeing if it sounds like it might help you to try to put into place some of it's ideas.

runningoutofpatience Mon 22-Jun-15 11:22:36

As a SEN teacher, I feel your pain, and also see traits of PDA and ODD in your description.

What about making him do things 'make up' for his actions - like if he destroys something belonging to a sibling, he must sacrifice something of his in return? Maybe if he knows it will cost him?

It sounds like he has a need for control in his environment, making everything about him? Do you think there was good bonding/attachment in his early years? (In no way trying to apportion blame) but perhaps look into attachment disorder as well.


schlong Mon 22-Jun-15 15:58:27

Op you say you don't enjoy parenthood. That's a massive admission. Your ds must pick up on that and reacts to it. Have you tried taking a humorous approach? Is it possible you favour the others over him? Kids have a nose for favouritism even at its most covert. Reassuring him you love him but not certain behaviors? And I'd ditch the tablet.

mistymeanour Mon 22-Jun-15 16:30:06

My second DD was like this as a child - very, very angry and difficult. I think she was resentful of her sister being born when she was 2, after having had a lot of attention as she had been poorly when little (and there was a question over having being deprived of oxygen). she was highly articulate and intelligent but had a massive struggle to learn to read and still has problems with directions. I think she got in a bad pattern as did we. I felt very judged as everyone thought she was a terror. I think catfishing gave good advice, you just have to ignore the "small stuff" - it is attention seeking - good or bad, attention is still attention.

We turned my DD around by having clear routines and structure (fixed bedtime, bath, teeth pj's, 1 story only a good cuddle and lights out etc) so that her environment and shape of her week was clear and controlled.

We took her out on her own locally either together (if we had cover) or seperately for example to the sweet shop to buy everyone a treat, the library, for a hot chocolate in a cafe - little short excursions to make her feel loved and special. It helped remind us what a lovely, charming child she could be and her behaviour did improve.

Long playdates made her behave badly later at home so we kept those very short and cut back on extra curricular stuff that over tired her.

Try and drop anything you can that particularly irritates your son, my DD hated going to shops, so I started getting an online grocery delivery and clothes online which cut out a lot of stress and got my DP to pick up milk etc on the way home from work. If she wouldn't get out of PJ's in the morning, I just said fine we'll take you like that. We also praised her good behaviour lots and told her calmly (after inwardly counting to ten) when her behaviour was unacceptable and then carried on as normal (even if she was thrashing around). If she misbehaved at a gym class or day out we just quietly and calmly brought her straight home (we explained to our other children that although it was hard on them that it would help things improve later) I read a book (which is probably outdated now) called The Explosive Child which really helped me. It all wasn't an instant success - and it took a long time and persistence but it really paid off - she is 19 now and we had no terrible teens or any problems at all since the age of about ten.

mistymeanour Mon 22-Jun-15 16:43:32

I wrote a bit of an essay above but I do understand how awful it can seem. I would like to add that if you decide to use a behaviour plan , then use one you are comfortable with and really stick with it month after month until it works. We tried and failed with lots of things at first because we did not stick with them long enough - often because as they went against our principles - thinking of the naughty step/time out approach, forfeits etc. Rewarding good behaviour and having a family routine sat better with us and so worked.

winkywinkola Sat 04-Jul-15 09:48:16

We have a clear routine. He gets regular alone time with either one of us.

He only ever does what his father asks of him. Which is particularly galling since I'm the one who has to get him to school etc.

The things that irritate him are the things that are necessary like cleaning teeth and getting dressed.

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