Sex and relationship advice please

[theadventerousone]

Long time user - name changed for anonymity.

So DP and I have been together for 4 years now. He is a great partner, does loads around the house, respects me, is there for me emotionally and is my best friend.

However, things have been getting a bit stale in the bedroom as of late. We haven't been having sex that regularly because to be honest, it's very vanilla and I'm just not that turned on by a kiss, missionary and quick finish (he seems to be perfectly happy about this).

I have spoken to him about this before and told him that he needs to step up and put more effort into foreplay which, he has to a degree but he's always just ready to go and every time I need to stop him and explain that it's going to take a bit more if I'm to orgasm. I think he just gets over excited because sex now is maybe only once every two weeks.

I tried to sit and speak to him about what we can do to spice things up again. He is very uncomfortable from the start - he really doesn't like to speak about sex but he listened anyway.

I suggested that we use some sex toys which will help me get in the mood more and it will be more exciting for both of us. I still consider sex toys vanilla but I understand that anything more might be out of his comfort zone so baby steps and all that.

He told me that he wouldn't use anything like that on me ever because he feels it would objectify me and he would then loose respect for me! I said but even if I am asking you to use them, it's not objectification at all. I said that we could try if and if he didn't feel comfortable then we wouldn't do it again but it was a resolute no.
I likened it to liking different tv shows - I don't respect him less because he likes footy and he doesn't respect me less because I like garbage reality tv but he wouldn't see it. Said it's a whole other realm and he would never be comfortable with anything like that.

Now I'm really at a loss as to what to do. I do love him and I would never make him do anything he is uncomfortable with but the stance he has taken on it has really annoyed me. I wouldn't mind if he had tried it before and found it wasn't for him - that's fine but to say that he will loose respect for me if he sees me with a vibrator? That boggles the mind.

I still do fancy him and want to work this out but I really don't know. I'm not happy with our sex life for now so I defiantly won't be 5/10 years down the line.

I guess he's just really old fashioned in some ways but then quite progressive in others (women's rights etc.)

Has anyone been through a similar situation? Any advice?

[pinkyredrose]

There's nothing like bad sex to kill a relationship. I've been there, tried talking, dressing up, all sorts but one day it was like a switch flicking and I just didn't want him anymore. The absolute worst is when a guy doesn't want foreplay, rolls on, comes, rolls off and that's it, made me feel like a walk sock. Sorry can't be any more helpful than that but if he won't talk or take your suggestions on board I do t know what you can do.

[pinkyredrose]

Wank sock that should read not walk sock!

[HappenstanceMarmite]

Madonna/whore syndrome.

[theadventerousone]

Yeap pinkyredrose that's how I feel sometimes. Actually I think that's more objectifying that anything because it seems that he doesn't care about my needs and my body is a means to an end.

But he does and that's what's upsetting. If he was a dick I'd be gone already but he really does care and really does try but I just don't know if he has it in him. We have such a good thing going other than this that it really would be heartbreaking if we were to end over bad sex.

His past partner cheated on him and now I'm beginning to see why. Not that I'd ever cheat but if she was getting stonewalled as I am, I wouldn't blame her!

[theadventerousone]

HappenstanceMarmite what's that?
I'm in work so not sure if I can safely google that!

[theadventerousone]

Ok so just had a look at Madonna/whore syndrome and there is defiantly merit in that. However, he hates any sort of porn and doesn't wank so perhaps it's more a sex drive issue?

[knowledgeispower]

Google it when you get home I think you really need to find a time when you are both relaxed and then tell him how you feel about the whole situation. Try the emotional sandwich thing - start by praising his plus points, state the problem, then finish on a positive. Then let him respond.

Maybe you could both take the pressure off a bit and just have more date nights/organised time together that may lead to more sex? How is affection during the rest of the time. Kisses/hugs etc?

[knowledgeispower]

Cross post!

[Handywoman]

Interesting you say he is progressive in his outlook wrt women's rights etc.

Let me tell you a nugget about my ex: he was a vocal defender of women's rights and about crimes against women's bodies etc.

We got married, had kids, he opted out of family life, contributed nothing to the upbringing of kids, controlled me and made my life a misery. In short, he became an emotionally abusive arsehole. His underlying fundamental belief was that women are for rallying around men's everyday needs and kids are women's work.

before anyone says I'm calling the OP's DP emotionally abusive, I'm not

I'm just saying that outward cognitive politically correct views regarding womens politics can mask otherwise more entitled views with regard to fundamental values around what women are about. Confusion about how the two can co-exist in a man can really trip you up, as it did with me (ten years down the line before I kicked my EA ex out).

There is nothing unreasonable about not getting turned on by roll-on roll-off PIV oriented sex.

I think his view of you is already objectiying: ie you are not a person with feelings or needs or deserving of equal pleasure in the bedroom. This quite apart from vibrators and what they may or may not mean to him.

I think if he doens't understand this, then you are only (rightly) going to become more resentful as time goes on and are better to opt out now.

[theadventerousone]

Thanks knowledgeispower I think the emotional sandwich is a great idea.

Affection is generally great, we always hug and kiss, hold hands, cuddle together on the sofa and that so no problem there. We are very open about feelings in general and if we are pissed off with each other are able to speak rationally, apologise etc.

Part of me is defiantly scared to have a very frank discussion about this. I was just testing the waters previously but I'm worried if he does indeed feel like he would loose respect for someone who is into that (me) then I could be fucking things up. I suppose it's a chance I'm going to have to take though?

[theadventerousone]

Thanks Handywoman. That sounds like a really awful experience, you're some woman to have the courage to go through all of that and be able to look back now.

I defiantly see where you are coming from but on the other side of the coin if I was to make him do things that he wasn't necessarily comfortable with, wouldn't I be objectifying him and using him to meet my needs? that'd be EA on my part? It's defiantly a double edged sword.

[Handywoman]

I hear you, OP. You've been brilliant and broached the subject and told him that you want to try something that you desire. He is letting pre-conceived notions about what 'women like that' are like (and possible fear about his ability in bed) overrule his ability to take on board what you've said - be wary of that, OP.

Having said that, it sounds like communication in other areas is great. Doesn't mean this isn't a sticking point. But the ball is in his court, surely he should be open to improving the chances of you achieving sexual pleasure? Surely that's a given? Does he pleasure you in other ways at all or is it PIV or nothing??

Can you change tack and get saucy with him and (in the actual moment) say you are turned on and would like him to do X? Thereby hopefully enticing him and directly instructing in a positive way, rather than provoking his fear outside of the bedroom?

I'm in a lovely relationship now with a man and can ask him for things directly - he loves it, he wants me to always get my jollies before him. Which I now think is kind of basic manners in the bedroom considering how things work down there for women (how things have changed for me!!!). Good luck.

[BertieBotts]

I don't think it's necessary to watch porn to have a madonna/whore attitude - it's just one of the common ways it manifests.

Either way I think it sounds as though you're not very sexually compatible?

[theadventerousone]

Thanks Handywoman, that's sage advice. You Mumsnetters never let me down!

I agree, it's pre-conceived notions about that sort of woman and that sort of man actually. He told me that he has heard men bragging before about doing x with their partner and thinks they are dickheads for doing so, therefore all men that do x are dickheads. I said no, not all men that do x are but alot of men who brag about it are. He conceded that point but not much else.

Yeah I mean he is open to other things. I do generally have to give him a nudge to go down on me but he is more than happy once he does. I think perhaps he's too caught up in his own desire. He says that he just gets too horny so it could be a psychological performance issue.
We have spoken about anal sex. Neither of us have tried it before and I said I wasn't sure but know I would need to be really turned on to do it - hence the sex toys. He then said it didn't matter and he wouldn't want to force anything on me. Like a vibrator is to get me turned on enough to meet his needs. I explained that is resolutely isn't - that it would be for me but I don't think he took that on board.

I could defiantly give him a nudge in the right direction during sex, such as do x and he would be happy to but I think if I was to whip out a vibrator the mood would be lost.

Good for you handywoman, I'm so happy to hear that after what you have been through.

[GrumpleMe]

It could be an ego thing. He might feel inadequate if a toy can get you there, but he can't.

Try stopping the action just before he comes, a few times. Say 'that was great!' and roll over and go to sleep. See if he gets the message then...

No, I know one shouldn't play games. But I'd still be tempted. :-/

[theadventerousone]

Yeap Bertiebots I reckon that's what it boils down to and it makes me really really sad. We are perfect in every other way

[HappenstanceMarmite]

Where a man puts women into category of either "whore" (loves dirty sex/treat her as a sex object only) OR "madonna" - bearer of his children etc. But can't see that a woman can be both of those to him.

From Urban Dictionary:
A man with a madonna-whore complex is a man who will sleep with and lust for a sexual and beautiful woman but he will never respect her as "wife" material and he will never marry her. In his eyes, she is tainted, impure, unworthy of the status of wife---yet he may possess passionate and contradictory feelings for her. He may even be in love with her but will never allow himself to be with her in any real sense.
He will look for a "good girl" to marry---usually a woman who is cold sexually but, for example, is good at "wifely" domestic things: cooking, cleaning, homemaking in general, etc. A proper, pure "madonna" type woman who will bear his children.

[HappenstanceMarmite]

Sorry cross posted as took a phone call as poised to post!

[theadventerousone]

Thanks anyway HappenstanceMarmite the Urban Dictionary definition quite succinctly helped me understand me more!

God help me if he does indeed think that way. There is no going back from that. It is so against what I believe in as a modern woman and what he apparently believes in.

Just been thinking though and I do probably think it is something to do with his mum. She cheated on his dad and stepdad and has never really forgiven her for the hurt that was caused. Maybe he thinks any woman with sexual desire is a bad woman out to hurt him?

[pocketsaviour]

He is not interested in your pleasure. End of story. Assuming you haven't got kids, I would get out now, before you chain yourself to 15-20 years of a shit sex life that revolves only around his dick.

"Objectify" you. Jesus christ on a motorbike. The bullshit these fuckers pull to excuse their selfishness gets worse every day. Oh yeah I feel really objectified that I'm actually getting a fucking orgasm that you apparently can't be bothered to give me. Douchebag.

[badbaldingballerina123]

I agree with handywoman that these apparent views can mask other beliefs. I also agree that he's already objectifying you. If EVERY time you have to stop him and explain you need more to orgasm there's something wrong.It sounds like his orgasm is a given and yours is optional. I wouldn't accept the weak excuses about this or him pretending he didn't realize . Would he be happy to have sex and get nothing out of it ?

Roll on , roll off with no orgasm for you doesn't sound like a man who's into women's rights. Unfortunately my experience is similar to handywomans.

[0x530x610x750x630x79]

yep, his mum was a whore he has married a "good" woman.

My dad was out every night at the pub, i have married a tee-totaler :)

[theadventerousone]

I genuinely don't think he is a bad person though. I know that may sound very naive to experienced ears and maybe it is. In every other aspect of life is a good partner and generally puts me and my needs first. For example I had a job interview a few weeks ago and he sat up every night with me helping me think of good answers, lost out on sleep and put his things to one side to help me. still didn't get the job! I had a pretty rough time with a member of my family and he was my rock, wouldn't have made it through without him.

It's slightly more complicated than just getting out now. I live abroad with him so there would be alot of financial and emotional implications, along with the heartbreak of ending our relationship.

But I am starting to think that if this cannot be resolved then I will just have to leave. I can't be unhappy with my sex life for the next 30 years, that's such a depressing thought. The more we talk about it on here, the more I realise that he steps up or I leave - I can't make him do something he doesn't want and he can't expect me to be satisfied when I'm clearly not.

[badbaldingballerina123]

Was it really necessary for him to sit up and lose sleep every night to help you think of answers for the interview ? Who's idea was it to do this ? My Dh would go over it with me for an hour , tell me he's got every confidence in me and that would be that.

Whether he's a bad person or not he's not respecting you sexually. In your shoes I'd have a frank discussion about your sex life. I simply wouldn't have sex with him while he felt my pleasure was optional. I'd tell him that in no uncertain terms.

[theadventerousone]

Not necessary no but I was punching way above my weight with that position and needed a boost to help me through. It was his idea to help but my idea to keep him there for hours because I'd no confidence in my answers.

I agree badbaldingballerina123 I'm going to go home this evening and have a very frank discussion about it. I feel sick already as I think this could be a breaking point - if it is then it's not to be, I won't sit back and be unhappy.

Thanks for your advice everyone, I'll update tomorrow for those interested!