How to handle this?

[Idiotdh]

Today we went some distance to a school sports event ds was taking part in. They lost but good game and ds enjoyed it. Afterwards there was some food laid on for the players but dh asked if ds would rather wait and come with us for us all to eat together on the way home which dh had planned to do in about twenty minutes. Ds said ok, fine, said goodbye to team mates and teacher.

The conversation went like this.

Dh;Shall we go to main food joint and we can all choose there?( mainly McD, think there is salad bar and jacket potato place too)
Me; Yes, fine.
Ds; Yes please , Mc Donald's?
Dh;Junk food?
Ds ;There's not much else in that place, KFC a bit further on?( near home)
Dh;Ok if thats what you want?Dont you want to go shopping too?
Me; Happy either way we can shop if you want to for a while.
Ds ; not really, just want to eat. Can do for a while though.
Dh ; well we can't all just do what we want all the time can we?

Dh, suddenly indicates left off motorway. This is towards original place planned. Says 'Well I'm stopping here look there is a KFC here anyway.' Then continues to drive past KFC part to area closish to original venue planned.
Ds; Can we go there (KFC?)then?
Dh ;Stops car far from KFC near to original planned place (McDs) says'Do what you want, Im going to the toilet we can just go home as far as Im concerned '
'I'm not going to KFC ds can go there if he wants give him a fiver it's over there ( quite far, across roundabouts etc, not accessible by foot)
Me; Let's just go and eat together at main food place, ds is hungry.Its not fair to wait any longer.
Dh; shouts ; Bugger off then, we can just go home if that's what you want.
Dh walks off with car keys. Says meet you here in 15 mins. I say ok shall we get food or are you shopping now. Dh seems to mutter F off and storms off leaving us in car with no keys.
I get back in , say come on ds let's go get something, what do u want, ds shouts ' I don't care ' and bursts into tears and breaks his heart..have never seen him do this and he is a very placid child who just tries to please.

I feel incredibly let down by dh behaviour with this... All we did was try to agree a plan , ds did nothing wrong and dh just made it impossible no matter what ds said. I think he's been incrediblybadly behaved and really let ds and me down. I am shocked at how unreasonable difficult and rude he has been. I am so angry I have not spoken a word to dh since. After dh came back to the car he rapped on the window and barked' What are you doing I thought you would be ready by now' . When we got out he said to ds' You can't go out like that, with a bright red face'.

I took ds via the loos to McDonalds and was furious but just refused to react or argue. We (ds and I )got food. We went back to car and came home. I have apologised to ds on behalf of his father but can't explain it.

What is this all about? Is he an unreasonable bully? Is he on the ASD spectrum, because it is really hard to communicate with him, he just doesn't follow the flow of conversation then loses his temper..so is either being deliberately difficult and obtuse, or he has some sort of problem.

I know he has been completely unreasonable out of the blue and ruined everything.. But what do I say now. Do I tell him to apologise to ds and me? Do I tell him to get out?

Please can I have some advice. LTB may be the right advice, but these are sporadic incidents and ds will still be seeing his father regularly (and always wants to spend time with dad)if I do LTB so it won't necessarily solve the problem. As in, I have to make or try to make dh change this behaviour and apologise and display to ds he was in the wrong...if I don't address this properly now, even LTB isn't going to be enough.

[CogitoErgoSometimes]

If this kind of thing happens sporadically he sounds like someone with a filthy temper and no patience. Unpleasant, intimidating.... certainly an unnecessary level of aggression in the circumstances. How I'd personally deal with it is to demand an apology from him for being unreasonable and make sure it extends to DS as well.

[Idiotdh]

I felt it was completely unfair. Every time ds agreed, dh changed the plan, culminating in storming off with us none the wiser.
It's ds who needs the apology because I could see he was utterly frustrated and quite heartbroken really. It was sad to witness him crying..he was bereft and felt let down and confused.

[Idiotdh]

We all have occaisional parenting fails. But then we sort it out and apologise.The problem with dh is, he can't ever see he is in the wrong and doesn't seem to feel guilty or empathise.

[CogitoErgoSometimes]

It's important to stand up for DS and show him that Dad behaviour was unacceptable. But the apology should be to both of you as you were both on the receiving end.

[CogitoErgoSometimes]

On the matter of being unable to see he is in the wrong...... This is not a problem of understanding. Any man faced with an angry wife and a sobbing child knows he is in the wrong. However, if he doesn't care that everyone is upset, that is quite different. Selfish, insensitive, bullying, whatever you want to call it, someone who doesn't care will never apologise.

[Idiotdh]

Ok, thanks.
I don't want a row when ds is awake. Shall have words in the morning.
If dh agrees and apologises, appears to feel bad, even though he has some form, I can move on on the basis he doesn't repeat in the future.

If he avoids and refuses to apologise and tells me to stop being so stupid, or worse, what then?

[Idiotdh]

Cross post. I fear that the second is the case.

[CogitoErgoSometimes]

Then you have to think hard about what kind of life you want and how best to achieve it. You already seem to be leaning towards LTB so presumably this is something that you're actively considering. Whatever you decide, I think you have to be a lot more assertive and a lot less compromising in the short term

[Idiotdh]

I wish to have a happy home life with both parents being fair and reasonable and without much conflict. After similar events in past I have considered my future but recently decided to try to improve matters at home. This seemed to have happened the last few weeks. I can't control dh...he doesn't listen. If you agree with him he is usually ok but if you disagree it would be instant conflict.

It's odd because he criticises other people who are arrogant etc...gets very worked up about it in fact. There was a David Mellor item on the radio today and he was saying..f ing Tory. I said well its arrogance, not his politics that is the problem. He said, yes but that is more likely to happen in someone who has money etc, and I said no, it's just being arrogant and not very clever to behave so badly. So he thinks DM was rude and entitled but can't see he behaves badly himself.

[Idiotdh]

I am not a Tory btw .

[Idiotdh]

Thank you for help. I will ask him to apologise and update tomorrow.

[Idiotdh]

I have spoken to him and asked him to apologise. He immediately got angry and said he has done nothing wrong...ds and I have.

He said I am the one who should apologise as I ruined his day as he had wanted to go shopping . He said ds didn't want to go shopping and it was obvious he only wanted to go to KFC .

I said no, that wasn't the case but what was out of order was him shouting and swearing at his own child and being unfair.

I asked him who taught him to behave like that because no one ever behaved like that in my own childhood and he needs to reflect on his own behaviour instead of blaming me when I haven't done anything wrong.

This is a tantrum about him thinking he was not getting his own way isn't it? Then blaming me for it. This has happened before. Does this sound like someone on the ASD spectrum because he just does not see my point of view at all and seems to have no empathy.

[CogitoErgoSometimes]

Selfish, arrogant people who would rather argue the toss than apologise or compromise are ten a penny. They don't make very good team-players or partners. Diagnoses of ASD are for doctors to make.

[MrsPepperMintonCandyCane]

If he has always behaved like this then he won't change and you need to decide what to do now. He sounds like a selfish bully.
Instead of looking for a reason like ASD you need to look at what it is doing to you and your DS. I would be thinking very hard about if you want him to be treating you both this way, and if not what steps you'll make to give you and your DS the life you deserve.

[Idiotdh]

I know..I have never genuinely considered that before and do not wish to infer people with ASD are in any way unpleasant as in dh case. It is the inability to communicate that stands out. It's as if he is at a loss to understand where the conversation is leading and jumps to conclusions.

In my life I grew up with two intelligent caring reasonable brothers and a wonderful dad, at work the men are the same. I just have been fortunate that I don't know anyone else like this and unfortunate that I married someone like this. I find it very odd. And so far from my own nature and those of my close family .

[Idiotdh]

I will give him this owning to reflect and come up with the apology. If he doesn't, I have some hard decisions to make.

[FunkyBoldRibena]

Sounds like he was spoiling for a fight and determined to have one.

[Idiotdh]

It sounds to me as if he has thought about it and decided he didn't really want me to come along on this trip and I somehow must be to blame.

[CogitoErgoSometimes]

It's not an inability to communicate or empathise. The thought process of the inadequate bullying type is as follows....

'I am right. I am always in the right. Others must always do as I say. Anyone who disagrees with me is in the wrong, does not respect my authority, and this is not acceptable. I do not apologise or compromise because I always have to be right and to apologise would be to admit weakness. I am entitled to have a go at anyone who disagrees with me... especially if they happen to be inferior creatures such as small children or women. I won't have a go at anyone person if I think they are superior to me, bigger than me or have more money than me .... I'll just grumble about them in behind their back because I'm a coward'.

[AttilaTheMeerkat]

Such arrogant men like your DH never apologise nor accept any responsibility for their actions. He caused all this to arise and you and your son got caught in his crossfire. He knows very well what he is doing; all communication is one way and from him alone. You and your son mean nothing to him; in his head you're supposed to do what he says and without question. Any apology from him therefore is not really meant and the cycle continues.

Such selfish and self absorbed men who always have to be right are more likely to be narcissistic in terms of personality. I doubt very much that your H is on the ASD spectrum to be honest with you particularly if he has never been clinically assessed. It also shows you to have a very poor understanding of ASD.

What is your DH like around other people?. My guess is that he acts very differently to those in the outside world when you are with him in company.

[quirkycutekitch]

Sounds like my father - if things don't go exactly as he plans in his head he has a freak out - they don't change.

[saffronwblue]

Good luck with your thinking.

[AttilaTheMeerkat]

"I asked him who taught him to behave like that because no one ever behaved like that in my own childhood and he needs to reflect on his own behaviour instead of blaming me when I haven't done anything wrong".

What was his response to your above comment?. Silence?.

I would think his behaviour is indeed learnt and deeply ingrained within his own psyche. What are his parents like, what's the background her?. That often gives clues.

[NickiFury]

I don't think he has ASD. I think he is one of those who is happier when there's conflict and will drive a conversation till it creates drama. They feel more comfortable with it, usually because there childhood was like that. I'd have demanded those bloody car keys and taken ds to KFC.

[Idiotdh]

Just ignore the above comment re ASD of mine..I think dh communication is problematic but this may well be intentional. People with ASD are not like this. The reason I mentioned it was because he can't handle it when plans change. Again this is more likely selfish behaviour than neurodevelopmental in origin so again please ignore and no offence intended.

Attila ...Silence.

With other people he is polite . He is rude about people on TV/ radio.

Ds does not want to lose his father because they share an enjoyment of certain activities together, sport, history mainly.