Who to believe. My mum or dd? Someone's lying.

[VivaLeBeaver]

Background. Mum has got history big time for being quite bonkers and rude. She speaks her mind with seemingly no concern for people's feelings. She has been unbelievably rude and nasty at times to myself, dh and my brother. Though now would deny all this and say she's only ever said stuff because she's concerned about us but people think she's been hyper critical, etc.

Dd is 13yo and while I would like to think she's a good kid and honest I accept I could be biased.

Some stuff she's done in the past includes writing me a 4 page letter after I told her I was pregnant spouting shit that dd could be disabled as I was living in sin and I should have an abortion. She once went crazy about how messy my house was when I was Ill in hospital to the extent she made dd cry. I have tried to keep her at arms length over the years.


So a few weeks ago she had dd overnight as a favour to me so I could go to a wedding. Dh was out the country. I posted about this at the time as again (so dd tells me) mum went spare saying the house was messy. Dd tried explaining we had the builders coming on the Monday and that's why stuff was piled up in the dining room.

When I picked dd up the next day she was upset saying that my mum had been saying that I was fat, that I had "too much meat on my legs" and that my brother "has a gut on him and will get diabetes and die". According to dd she also called dh a "bum licker"

I was upset after dd told me this but never got the courage to confront my mum. I did tell my brother about it who wasn't very happy. I'd kind of forgotten about it.

Anyway its all blown up. My brother has confronted my mum.

My mum admits the comments about me and my brother been fat but says the comments have been taken out of context and that she was discussing diets and healthy eating with dd. she totally denies saying anything about the house been messy and Denies calling dh a bum licker.

My brother has told her its disgusting that she's prepared to call dd a liar. And it sounds like they're both going NC with each other permanently over this. Mum says she can never forgive my brother for the things he's said, that he's said she has to apologise to dd and explain herself to him. She says she won't be spoken to like that by him.

I think my brother is pissed off that I'm prepared to let her get away with it.

I do believe dd over my mum I think but there's always a nagging part of me that says a 13yo could be stirring.....she doesn't like my mum.

Part of me thinks my mum is so bonkers that she will have convinced herself she never said it and will now genuinely think she didnt.

As a phrase I'd say that my mum is more likely to use the term "bum licker" than dd. though mum just denied that to me and said she would never say anything so "vulgar". My mum when mad has a mouth like a sewer and calls other car drivers fucking bastards, twats, etc. and she knows I've heard her use language like this......so why say she wouldn't use vulgar language?? Because I think she genuinely forgets she's like this and paints herself a different reality.

My dd can swear, but I've never heard her say "bum licker".

My gut feeling is just to forget it all.

[EveDallasRetd]

I think your brother has the measure of your mother, and going NC is the way ahead. I'm surprised that you don't feel the same tbh...and yep, I'd believe your DD.

[Cabrinha]

Your gut feeling isn't based on not knowing who to believe.
Come on, you know your mum is the liar here.
Your gut feeling is because you're scared to confront your mum.

[ghostvitruvius]

At the least it sounds like it isn't a good idea for her to spend time with your DD, especially unsupervised.

Even if she didn't say the exact words "bum licker", sounds like she was rude and nasty.

[LemonBreeland]

I find myself wondering why you have this woman in your lives at all. I think your DD probably has good reason not to like your Mum. Your DB sounds sensible to me.

[NickiFury]

I couldn't forget it all and I wouldn't let her near my dd again! I think your dd is at an impressionable age and doesn't need to see adults behaving like that. I also believe your dd.

[molesbreath]

I agree I don't think a 13 year old would know the term bum licker.

[BOFster]

I would believe your daughter.

[Meerka]

.... Your mum is bonkers. You're right.

Sorry but your daughter has a shit load better instincts that you do.

Your mother is, according to you, highly prone to verbal abuse and she lies to people and to herself. She has been extremely rude to your husband. She has told you you should have an abortion because you were not married.

Why on earth did you leave your daughter with her and not at a friend's house, your brother's house or anywhere else but her?

Your brother has courage and decency to call her out and try to protect your daughter where you are not. Now that is his decision but my strongest advice from now on is to stand by your daughter not your mother. How often has she said appalling things directly to your daughter? I think you better find out becuase she's said appalling things directly to you, and she's said appalling things about you. Very hard to believe she's not doing the same to her. She's thirteen.

How did you comfort your daughter?

Please get Toxic Parents, read it and consider getting some assertiveness training. And thank your brother. He's doing what you're not.

[ThePinkOcelot]

You need to ask?! I would believe your dd tbh. Why dont you? I wouldn't be too happy if I was your dd.

[SpidersDontWashTheirHands]

Your Mum sounds awful. I'd keep yourself and your daughter away from her if I we're you.

[squitchey]

You already know the answer - it's overwhelmingly likely, from what you've said, that it's your mum who is lying. It's just an unpleasant truth to face because it means you'll actually have to confront it this time rather than sweeping it under the carpet again. I sympathise - having to deal with something like this is truly horrible, it's much easier to listen to the doubts and not do anything.

[itiswhatitiswhatitis]

the horrible things she said about you and your brother are bad enough to warrant going NC given her history so I'm not sure why it matters if the other parts are true or not (I think they probably are)

[VivaLeBeaver]

I've told dd that I believe her. She won't be seeing my mum again unless I'm with her. That's probably only the second time in five years she has seen her without me been there.

[Permanentlyexhausted]

My gut feeling from reading your post would be to believe your DD.

Perhaps you could say to DD that you plan to speak to your mum about it so is she absolutely certain that is what grandma said?

[Meerka]

That's very good to hear. Please stand by your brother too and let him know you appreciate his actions.

Not many siblings would intervene so strongly in a situation like this. He's had your back.

[VivaLeBeaver]

Dd heard me talking to my brother about it last night. Just the stuff about me and him. She then piped up "and she called dad a bum licker".

Totally unprompted, six weeks after she last mentioned it.

I think I'm just trying to believe that mum must have genuinely forgotten she said it in the heat of the moment. I struggle to comprehend that she could in cold blood try and convince me that dd is lying over her just to save her own neck.

[PoppyWearer]

I agree with what all others have said and also commend your brother for standing up to her like that. I've been in a similar situation, and had related counselling, and it destroys people.

I also believe your DD. Have you read about narcissism wrt your mother?

[LineRunner]

I would believe your daughter and support your brother.

Are you so very scared of your mother? If so, all the more reason to keep your DD and yourself away from her while you explore why you feel like this.

[PulpsNotFiction]

I agree with the other replies, it's your mum and guess that you're finding that hard.
You'll not get her to see she's in the wrong, so don't waste your breath, sounds like its the final straw for your brother but that you're not there yet.

[Oakmaiden]

I struggle to comprehend that she could in cold blood try and convince me that dd is lying over her just to save her own neck.

From what you have said, I struggle to understand why you don't expect her to lie and deny it.

[Thrholidaysarecoming]

Why are you still enabling you mother?

Of course you know she is lying. she has form for being a nasty piece of work yet are still giving her the benefit of the doubt.

This is all her doing. You can not fix or cajole this woman in to being a nicer person. What happens now? you let it disappear? You let your dd get bullied by this woman and then let her back in to carry on?

what's happening now is your mothers poisonous behaviour is starting to wash over your dd, she is starting to be a casualty.

[VivaLeBeaver]

Yes I do think she has a lot of narcisstic traits. She totally thinks she's better, more intelligent than other people. Thinks others are wrong, stupid, etc. completely oblivious to her own faults.

I'm worried my brothers pissed off with me now.

[Meerka]

I think you need to take a very long look at your mother, a dispassionate and neutral one. Write down her behaviour over the years and what she's trying to do now. Leave it a week then re-read it.

Then to go and look at some of the links in the first post in the Stately Homes thread.

You're wanting to believe in your mother, to think that it can't possibly be that bad. But it is, and if you just bury your head in the sand you're going to be deliberately shutting your eyes. You're pretty lost in the FOG atm, it's clear, but this situation is bad.

[TheLittleOneSaidRollOver]

This situation is a clear example of being in the FOG: Fear. Obligation. Guilt.

The Toxic Parents book is a worthwhile read.

[TheLittleOneSaidRollOver]

x-post with Meerka