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Rape -Judy Finnegan

(197 Posts)
HiawathaDidntBotherTooMuch Mon 13-Oct-14 23:05:08

DH and I were talking about this earlier. I hadn't heard anything about it, but he said 'Judy Finnegan got into trouble earlier for what she said about that footballer, going on to recount what she had said. Then he said 'you can understand what she meant though, there are different types of rape ...'. I flew off the handle, and said that I was offended and disgusted by what he had said.

He then went on and in about how sentences can vary to reflect the degrees of violence in rapes. I again flew off the handle and said that all rapes are violent.

He tried to explain what he meant. Which was that all rapes are disgusting, and every rapist should go to prison for their actions. But that some rapes involved more violence than others, just like some murders are more violent than others. He wanted to discuss it with me, but I couldn't speak to him, I was so disgusted. He has stormed off saying that I am pathetic and weird for not discussing what he had tried to explain.

I cannot get my head around what he is saying.

Iliveinalighthousewiththeghost Mon 13-Oct-14 23:11:05

Neither can I. If my D.P said that we would be over. If someone has those views over rape then I would not let them near my d.d.
And he called you pathetic. !!!

JaneFonda Mon 13-Oct-14 23:11:39

I know this isn't AIBU, but you were being quite unreasonable to not even want to discuss it with him - it's an important thing to talk about, especially to help clear up misconceptions that people may have.

I would say that sometimes, views like the one your DH expressed don't come from a place of malice, but from ignorance.

I think it's really important to be able to have an open conversation about things like this without flying off the handle and getting angry.

HiawathaDidntBotherTooMuch Mon 13-Oct-14 23:12:23

But I am incredibly angry. This is my husband saying these things.

SelfLoathing Mon 13-Oct-14 23:13:31

Not all rapes are "violent". It maybe you and your husband are using that word in different senses.

A woman who says no to her husband or partner but thereafter does not physically fight is still being raped but may not be the victim of physical violence as commonly understood. The act itself may involve no physical force (ie. violence) by the husband at all if the woman acquiesces - but it's still rape if she said no.

Darkesteyes Mon 13-Oct-14 23:13:39

ALL rapes are violent ALL of them Many women end up with internal injuries or tears from where a rapist had forced themselves into them. It IS violence.

Darkesteyes Mon 13-Oct-14 23:14:27

No means no. End of.

handfulofcottonbuds Mon 13-Oct-14 23:14:35

Unfortunate thread title, could be misleading sad

JaneFonda Mon 13-Oct-14 23:15:12

Perhaps you should take some time to let everything calm down, and then talk to him about it.

If you disagree with him, it's important that you can both sit down and discuss it - listen to each other's views, and explain why you feel he is wrong so he at least has a chance to be educated about this issue, rather than getting defensive after you get angry.

SelfLoathing Mon 13-Oct-14 23:19:24

ALL rapes are violent ALL of them

This is absolute rubbish.

Violence means use of physical force.

A woman may be too drunk to consent but have sex without violence. Still rape. No violence.

A girl under age may consent. Still rape. No violence.

A woman may say no but be too scared to resist and appear thereafter to go along with it. Still rape. No violence.

HiawathaDidntBotherTooMuch Mon 13-Oct-14 23:19:39

I am definitely not balm enough to talk about it with him tonight. And he has stormed off to the spare room anyway.

HiawathaDidntBotherTooMuch Mon 13-Oct-14 23:20:55

To me, it is violent to penetrate a person without their active consent. Surely to god?

SelfLoathing Mon 13-Oct-14 23:29:01

To me, it is violent to penetrate a person without their active consent. Surely to god?

The problem here is the words "to me". The word "violent" objectively means physical force. What you personally interpret it to mean is neither here nor there.

Statutory rape may occur where the victim may very well have been a willing participant. It's still rape though.

A person may say "no" but actually not be the victim of a violent rape. In fact, the rapist may think they are consenting. Doesn't matter what he thinks, it's still rape if she said no. But there may be no violence.

inlectorecumbit Mon 13-Oct-14 23:30:05

Rape is Rape is Rape

That's it really in a nutshell.

Stupid man

thenamehaschanged Mon 13-Oct-14 23:30:38

but it's still rape if she said no

It can also still be rape if she says yes under coercion - 'sleeping with the enemy'

Maybe the word violent is being misconstrued - as in Domestic Violence being used to describe all manners of domestic abuse where little to no actual physical violence has happened.

So there may not be any physical 'forcing' as such in some cases, but any form that a rape takes place in, comes from abuse and a 'violence' in the mind of the perpetrator

Lweji Mon 13-Oct-14 23:32:24

But surely you understand that there are different degrees of violence, which is (I think) what your OH is saying. Whereas punching someone is violence, repeated punching and kicking is much worse. And attracts longer sentences.

I don't think you need to fly off the handle, unless he was saying that some forms of rape aren't rape.

SoleSource Mon 13-Oct-14 23:32:41

I am totally agreeing with you OP but maybe he just needs educating.

scatteroflight Mon 13-Oct-14 23:34:35

I'm afraid I agree with your DP. It is unarguable that some rapes/murders, in fact any crime, can be more or less violent. It has become useful shorthand for women to deny this as the "rape is rape" trope both enables us to feel emboldened in resisting male violence and potentially helps to educate men. It also acknowledges that the suffering of a victim can be great whatever the circumstances.

However it is patently NOT true that all rape is similarly violent and women do a great disservice to logic when they argue that it is.

SoleSource Mon 13-Oct-14 23:35:23

not maybe he does need educating, rape is violence, power and never over for the victim no matter what! victims if they are fortunate might learn to manage their feelings over the incident.

hotblacktea Mon 13-Oct-14 23:37:08

looks more like semantics to me, you're fundamentally in agreement
try talking again when you've calmed down

grumpasaur Mon 13-Oct-14 23:39:29

Op with respect, I kind of see where your husband is coming from.

I was raped once, by two men, and it wasn't what I would call violent.

I just did what they told me to because the lead instigator had abused me emotionally for so long that I did what he said.

I have a woman at work (a client) who was gang raped by her ex partner and his friends. They held her down (face down), forced themselves repeatedly into her bottom and vagina and mouth, gagged her, beat her, and tore her almost completely open.

That is violence rape- and she suffered physically a lot more than I did, although we were both raped and both rapes were absolutely horrific.

So whilst rape is always awful and coercive and non-consenting, it's not always violent...

I think that is perhaps what your husband means?

grumpasaur Mon 13-Oct-14 23:42:37

Sole source- careful, I think you are perhaps tarring all victims as forever victimised, which does them (us, in my case!) a disservice.

as I said below I was raped. It was awful and it was absolutely about power and control; there was however no "violence" and I have moved past that awful time in my life (am now strong, happy with my husband, and have a good and satisfying sex life).

SoonToBeSix Mon 13-Oct-14 23:43:07

You are being unfair on your dh op, he explained what he meant.

HerdyHerdwick Mon 13-Oct-14 23:45:09


grumpasaur Mon 13-Oct-14 23:45:41

Also- sorry to hog the board- but I would argue that the experience my client had was probably more damaging than the one I had.

I never felt unsafe and my body was not permanently harmed- so the level of things I had to work through was lower to start off with, and my journey was purely emotional rather than physical.

I would not object to her rapists being given a stronger sentence than mine (although feel both should be shot!)

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