Help with friend/stalker situation

[ICanHearYou]

My friend is a gregarious, beautiful woman, talented artist, dancer, singer and teacher. She is currently abroad teaching performance arts to children.

She is in her mid to late 20's, we'll call her Sue

She has always had this slightly creepy older friend called Paul (NRN) who, from about 18months ago has started hanging around the same places as her, generally 'being around'.

On Tuesday I had Paul come round, just for a chat and because he was really depressed, he asked me quite calmly if I had heard anything from Sue and I told him she was doing really well and had met someone. He Flipped out. Started going on about how she had lied to him, he wasn't told anything and 'friends tell each other everything' that she wont even communicate to him about the website he has created for her (he is a web designer) and that it is upsetting him a lot.

This went on for some time and he told me that she had fancied him the first time they met and he missed a 'window of opportunity' to make her his and if he had been more forceful/direct then she would have loved him and they would have stayed together.

he is around 50.

I told him straight that I thought that was strange because she was off exploring the world and doing loads of stuff and he wanted someone to take to art-galleries with and so on. I didn't really understand how that would work out.

He then told me that his ex-wife was much younger than him and he had allowd her to have an 'open relationship' and this had worked really well for them, he took her to boyfriends houses and paid for everything and so on. I said he sounded more like a father figure and he got really upset.

Anyway so I spoke to Sue and said that I thought Paul was being a bit full-on about her and that actually I felt like him obsessing over her was stopping him leading his life and must be pretty weird for her.

She has stated that she never fancied him, never showed him any signs of that, that he invited her to a theatre date with friends and it ended up being the two of them and that was it. He is turning up at music nights she puts on and saying 'thank you for inviting me' to her and so on, basically he has made it so that everywhere she is, he will go.

Since she's left the country he has been attempting to contact her every single day, he will produce newspaper articles that he has found from the small Eastern European town where she is working that she is in and translate them and announce he is putting them on the website. She never asked him to build a website, doesn't really want one.

He will write on the website pretending to be her, she will then say 'well I would never say that' and give him different text to use. She admits she has been naive but she is a reasonable person and he is constantly telling her how normal it is that he takes an interest in her life.

She told him she had a tummy ache 2 months ago and he 'stayed up all night worrying' and looking up abortion clinics in Eastern-Europe. She just had a tummy ache.

He has told me that having her to 'care for' is the only thing stopping him going to sleep crying every night.

She then told me that he asked her repeatedly for her address and she of course turned him down. He then went online, got the address of the theatre school where she teaches and began sending her parcels.

These didn't make it to the theatre school and were sent all around the town before finding her. She was embarrassed by this so gave him her address (?)

He has since been sending her lots of little things, chocolates, poetry, an erotic short story and more recently he has sent her a mobile phone.

She took some money from him for a train ticket to Berlin (silly silly Sue) and she is keen to pay this back though has no money. I've told her I will pay it back to him on her behalf.

She wants to cut him out of her life (understandably) but he keeps following her everywhere. I told her to send me the mobile phone to return it to him and to record and destroy anything in future that he sends? Is this wise advice?

She said she might 'message him to tell him that she will never contact him again' I said to just not message him again ever and not tell him that.

Any advice?

[HumblePieMonster]

Keep the hell out.
They're as bad as each other. You're willing to become financially involved? Don't.
You have him round at your house? Don't.
Avoid like the plague, both of them.

[ICanHearYou]

I won't ever have him near my house again.

She is a dear, dear friend. I can't cut her out it would be like losing my sister.

[GoatsDoRoam]

Your advice is the right one. She just needs to follow it: stop being "nice", stop responding, stop engaging. Just meet every single one of his parcels/messages/statements with complete and utter silence.

(he is clearly a creep of the highest order and she may eventually have to involve the police. But for now, she has to stop treating him like a reasonable person he is not one and DISENGAGE. completely. Just blank him: his advances are unwanted, and any reaction from her (even negative) just fuels him on.)

[Theoldhag]

He sounds vile! Poor Sue.

Has she blocked him from all contact? Phone, email etc?

Can she speak to the police and ask them to put a stop to his harassment?

If I was her I would send one last email, telling him that any more contact from him and she will involve the police.

[CogitoErgoSometimes]

I think Sue needs to operate the Siegfried Farnon 'PNS' (Polite, Nasty, Solicitors) system

1. Tell him, in writing, not to contact her again. Has to be very clear and unambiguous
2. If he ignores this, follow up with a letter advising that the police will be involved if he persists.
3. Call 101 non-emergency police and have them pay him a visit.

She should keep all correspondence etc as evidence

[Theoldhag]

Ps same goes for you block and report to police if this creep carries on.

[ovaryhill]

I don't think you need advice, what you advised her was absolutely right, no contact at all, nothing, and that would go for you too as I would imagine you night be on the receiving end of more of his nonsense once he realises what's happening,

[patienceisvirtuous]

I think she should tell him they can't be friends any longer because she doesn't want to be (and that is reason good enough). Then if he continues to harass her she should contact the police.

You should stay out of it except be a friend to either/both if you wish.

[ICanHearYou]

yes I agree about the negative energy being 'energy' and should be avoided. That is why I am telling her not to message him.

However, I do think she needs to return the mobile phone because the fact he sent it is just so so creepy.

[Vivacia]

All of the above but also, stop accepting money and gifts from him!

[pictish]

I think you need to take a step back as well.

Sue is perfectly capable of laying it on the line to Paul. "Your attention is unwanted. I like you but I'm not in love with you, and I don't agree that friends tell each other everything or are in constant contact either. You are too intense and it's making me very uncomfortable."

Why doesn't she say that?
And why are you offering to get involved with it all?

If Paul is pestering her, she needs to tell him straight, then if that yields no results, she should contact the police for advice.

I see no need for third party involvement from you, beyond supporting her as an ear while she tries to extricate him from her life.

I had a friend go through similar with a male friend about 5 years ago. He had harboured fantasies and feelings around her for many years, which she certainly never encouraged. When she eventually told him it was never going to happen, and told him off for being so intrusive, he stopped and moved on to someone else, who he now has a baby with.

[ICanHearYou]

She has told him plenty of times, blocked him on facebook, ignored him for weeks on end.

Shes been ignoring him for the last 9 weeks (he was very clear about that) which is why he came to my house to get info.

[ICanHearYou]

Sorry, 9 days. She has blocked and avoided him before but he always finds a way to turn up.

[pictish]

But yet she accepts his money.

[Lovingfreedom]

I think the best thing 'Sue' can do is to completely ignore this guy and the best thing you can do is ignore him too. Listening to him and trying to understand is not helpful as it adds to the drama.

[ICanHearYou]

She has told him, she has given him no encouragement.

She has told him she finds him creepy and obsessive and thinks it is unhealthy.

The ways he has got back into contact with her;

Starting a website on her behalf, writing as her in ways she wouldn't normally, so she contacted him to tell him she wouldn't speak like that and ask him why he had built the website, he said they had discussed it one night and so he did it.

Sending her packages to her theatre address that got passed around the town

emailing her with pictures of her from a festival she went to in Europe that she had not told him/me/anyone she was going to.

she feels like she can't tell her friends anything because if she does he will find out and stalk her with it. It is totally isolating her,

[Lovingfreedom]

If Sue has been avoiding him and NC for 9 weeks I think you made a mistake by engaging with him tbh.

[ICanHearYou]

She feels shitty about the money, really shitty.

She said she was desperate to get to Berlin and posted something on a local site about people travelling that way and he saw it and told him it was fine for him to give her the money and she shouldn't feel bad about it or like she owed him anything.

I did tell her she was stupid for accepting it and she does understand that.

[ICanHearYou]

I did make a mistake but I had no idea when he came round of the level of his creepiness or that they were out of contact.

I just invited a friend round for dinner who was really depressed, I had no idea it was going to turn out like that. I've already told him I absolutely will not be speaking to him about her ever again.

[pictish]

I can understand she may have found herself between a rock and a hard place and took the help he offered, but really...it's not going to help get rid of him is it?

[Vivacia]

I think you'd feel better stepping back from the situation too OP.

[ICanHearYou]

pitish, I agree, she agrees.

Unfortunately short of a time machine we/I don't know how to change that situation. It is what it is.

so is returning the money to him the best option? Via me?

Or is that a bad idea?

I know I shouldn't be getting involved but she is my friend and she is scared to come home.

[pictish]

Then really...she needs to contact the police doesn't she?
There is no way of getting around it. He's obsessed. The website, the photos, everything....

She hasn't told him to shut down the website she didn't ask for. Why not?

[CleanLinesSharpEdges]

I just can't get over the fact that she's happy enough to accept money and a mobile phone from weird creepy stalker guy.

Silly silly Sue indeed .

[ICanHearYou]

Er she didn't accept a mobile phone from him. He just SENT it to her in the post. She's not touched it.

shes been stupid enough with inventing things!