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STBXH wants to visit the children in the early mornings?

(136 Posts)
BelleBoyd Mon 23-Jun-14 04:38:46

My H and I are separating. My decision-he's against it and unwilling to go. He says he won't go till we've made all the access decisions.
He is looking for a room in a flatshare or he's been offered a room at his aunts. He won't rent a flat as he says he doesn't have the money. He hasn't an interest in having the children overnight-he's never done nights as in feeding DS or getting up with DD if she wakes or is unwell. He also finds it hard to get up early.
Anyway I am happy for him to see the children- 4 month old DS and 4 year old DD as much as he likes on the weekend to go swimming/park etc. But he wants to come to the house in some of the early weekday mornings to see them both sometime between 5-8am and also to do bedtime. He arrives home usually at bedtime-7.30pm and it always excites DD and I find it harder to get her to bed. If he's late and I get her to bed before he's back it's much smoother plus DS is usually asleep by 7pm.
Seeing the children at these times would be really disruptive to their routine and I think not in their best interests. I do want him to have as much access to them as he likes but not that doesn't benefit them. I'm also worried they would be confused if his visits are in my home apart from the fact it would be difficult for me also.
I've suggested him taking DD to school but he says he can't. Or coming home early to take them out after school but he also says he can't.
He wants me to "prove" that seeing them here and at those times isn't appropriate..he is very controlling.

Itsfab Fri 27-Jun-14 18:28:44

Then I apologise and wish you luck for a safe and happy future. You don't need to tow the line with SW. They are not the boss of you either and I am sure you wouldn't put your child at risk, just remember you can't trust your STBEH.

BelleBoyd Fri 27-Jun-14 18:22:40

That's a bit harsh- it was my decision to ask him to leave, I've ordered an injunction form if he doesn't on the agreed date.I'm doing what I can to get him out with as little disruption to my DD as I can. If that means just one more week I can handle that.
I hope I will be able to stand by what I want re access arrangements as well. I've stopped him using my car-he has no key of his own.
I am certainly not doing what he tells me and obviously I need to tow the line with SW.

Jux Fri 27-Jun-14 17:38:16

He's been bullying you a long time, hasn't he? You're used to placating him, and he expects to get his own way pretty well all the time. He thinks he can wear you down with his unreasonable demands so that you agree to everything and he will then use it against you later.

Please call WA and get yourself some real life support from professionals who understand exactly what's going on. It will change your life beyond recognition. This time next year you will read this thread in disbelief that you could put up with it as long as you have.

You need to gird your loins, square your shoulders and go into battle.

Itsfab Fri 27-Jun-14 17:18:02

shock at the SW advice.

Another SW said a teenager wasn't a danger to herself. That child is now dead. I would be very careful about assuming SW are some kind of oracle and know best about your child.

I wonder what is really going on as you seem to be unable to make your own decisions and are just doing what you are told. By him, by SW, etc etc.

BranchingOut Fri 27-Jun-14 14:24:50

Also, while taking him off the insurance might be a good idea - is there a risk that he might still try to drive the car anyway?

BranchingOut Fri 27-Jun-14 14:24:20

I think a contact centre could be a good idea until he gets suitable accommodation lined up.

I think it would be very unwise to let him take DD to his mum. Please be careful. Or why not all go together - even if you don't particularly want to, it might be safest to do so.

The SW has answered the question from the point of view of 'will the child come to harm', not from a separation/divorce point of view.

AcrossthePond55 Fri 27-Jun-14 14:06:16

I don't think the SW means that you must go along with him. I think she just means that you shouldn't argue in front of children, which is correct. It could mean that you must just say 'We aren't discussing this now' when he starts in.

Again, you need to say whatever it takes to get him the hell gone! Tell him you'll paint purple polka-dots on your bum if it gets him to leave. You can do whatever you like after he's gone.

I think this man has you 'bullied' into a corner and you're so used to 'not rocking the boat' that it doesn't occur to you just how much power you have.

Hell's bells, get a locksmith on standby & next time he leaves for a few hours get the locks changed.

AliceDoesntLiveHereAnymore Fri 27-Jun-14 11:34:29

Odd information from the SW. When I spoke to SS, she said that in an abusive situation, it's more appropriate to have the contact either in a public place or at a contact centre. That's what they (and the police domestic abuse person) have suggested to me.

SolidGoldBrass Fri 27-Jun-14 11:21:04

I think what the social worker is telling you is that your child is not necessarily at risk but that you do not have to comply with this man, either.
You need to stop caring what he thinks. He is your enemy. He is ludicrous as well as unpleasant. He has no power over you.

Honestly, please believe he has no power unless you give him any. You own the house. You don't need his permission or his co-operation to divorce him and keep him at a safe and comfortable distance. Get that occupation order and have him removed. Set suitable conditions for access that benefit the children and you.
He is the least important person in the family. Start treating him that way.

Lucked Fri 27-Jun-14 09:48:51

She may be fine with it from the children's safety point of view but she isn't taking into consideration your health and needs. Remember she did say if it's what you want, implies to me she is also okay with you telling him he can't have access to your home.

Where is he going when he goes?

Butterflyspring Fri 27-Jun-14 09:44:28

Bloody hell - I think they are totally wrong. Nobody would condone access in your home - especially when his behaviour is so abusive. You going to contact Women's Aid and see a solicitor now?

BelleBoyd Fri 27-Jun-14 09:14:37

Just spoken to SW and she says she's happy for him to take DD to his mums for a visit and that he's fine to have visitation in the home if I'm ok with it. She suggested my mum being here when he visits which isn't workable to ask my mum over every time..
I'm surprised she's said this.
She said her only concern is us having arguments in front of DD which effectively means when DD is present I have to go along with whatever he does/says to avoid argument.

AcrossthePond55 Thu 26-Jun-14 23:25:53

Sounds like a lovely chap. I'd tell him whatever he wanted to hear to get him out. As long as it's not in writing, there's nothing he can do.

As for his stuff, once he's gone I'd bag it up nicely and drop it off at auntie's house when he's not there.

If you don't, he's just going to keep making up more stuff that has to be decided before he'll leave. Sounds like a form of blackmail to me.

Jux Thu 26-Jun-14 22:52:36

Phone your insurers tomorrow and take him off the insurance so he can't drive your car. Get the occupation order forms even if it means you have to go and pick them up yourself, rather than waiting for the post.

You don't sound like you're taking this very seriously, but you don't have to read too many threads here to realise that controlling twats have no bottom line and the most dangerous time is when the bullied partner is trying to end the relationship.

You can't see him taking dd and not bringing her back (and therefore hanging onto your car too?) and you think we are exaggerating as we don't know you or him in rl. We don't need to because a lot of us have read thread after thread after thread over years and years, and have seen the pattern of behaviour too many times.

Do you really want to take the risk that this man, who has hardly behaved normally so far (bullying you and harrassment? setting unreasonable and impractical access conditions before agreeing to leave your house? forcing you to promise to keep trying when he knows you don't want to?) will behave like a normal, well-balanced person in the future? Why on earth would he?

For heaven's sake, protect yourself. Stop treating him like he's rational and reasonable. He isn't.

AnyFucker Thu 26-Jun-14 21:22:12

You are being foolish

You are still trying to "manage" him

He will have the last laugh, because he isn't a decent person and he has no qualms about using dirty behaviour to get what he wants

You are likely to regret not using the power of the law and the experience of professionals to support you

SolidGoldBrass Thu 26-Jun-14 20:43:44

You don't have to agree to any of these things, and he can still be forced to move out.

Certainly, no competent couples counsellor would take you and him on: couples counselling doesn't work when there is abuse and is a really bad idea.

However, it probably would be quicker to say Yes, dear and change the locks. Because, as said upthread, an agreement made under duress is not binding anyway. Mind you, unless you fear physical violence, wouldn't it be satisfying just to say to him 'There is no way we are getting back together, you inadequate little prick. Get out of my house.!'

AliceDoesntLiveHereAnymore Thu 26-Jun-14 20:42:32

he will reluctantly agree to move out if I agree to his conditions-a telephone consultation with a child pschycologist, couples counselling with a commitment from me to try and get back together and his access proposals

seriously? the man is a nut job! have you gotten legal advice on this particular tidbit?

The first thing anyone ever says in these situations is "I never thought he'd do that.."

Itsfab Thu 26-Jun-14 20:34:53

Maybe he will secretly record you agreeing to all his demands and then you will be stuck.

Itsfab Thu 26-Jun-14 20:33:46

"Don't think he has it in him."

There are too many threads on here to read which should tell you this is a dangerous thought to have.

BelleBoyd Thu 26-Jun-14 20:11:49

I'm pretty sure he wouldn't have any desire to take DD for any amount of time even to spite/control me. Don't think he has it in him..
The overnight trip is his mums idea. She has organised it with him and not consulted me. His mum is visiting the kids on Monday and I'm going to show her the SS assesment.
I've left a message with the SW and will run it by them as well as informing them I've received legal advice and am waiting for the injunction forms.
The latest from H is that he will reluctantly agree to move out if I agree to his conditions-a telephone consultation with a child pschycologist, couples counselling with a commitment from me to try and get back together and his access proposals.
I'm wondering whether to verbally agree to these and then once he's out change the locks and proceed from there. I'm thinking this might be quicker than an occupation order.

SolidGoldBrass Thu 26-Jun-14 19:36:11

I think you need to get legal action started fast so that he can't take her away and keep her. At the moment he might just do it anyway.

Jux Thu 26-Jun-14 17:52:04

Keep saying no to him. Do not give an inch.

Are you still cooking, cleaning, washing, ironing etc for him? Please don't.

Once you've reported him this will all be a lot easier.

AnyFucker Thu 26-Jun-14 17:45:23

if he decides to play silly buggers and hold onto her the police will unfortunately have their hands tied under present parenting arrangements

you would be very foolish to do this

AnyFucker Thu 26-Jun-14 17:44:06

Don't back down on anything

If you do, on the smallest thing, he will see it as a chink to exploit

he simply wants to continue to control you, via the children, as that is one of the few pathways he has left

MsPavlichenko Thu 26-Jun-14 17:30:51

Agree with others, say No. It is another opportunity to control and manipulate you via his DC. You are not being paranoid.

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