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Lies again???

(40 Posts)
Bocolatechiscuit Fri 02-May-14 16:31:03

Hi there,

I'm new to mumsnet having only posted once before on behalf of a friend of mine worrying about her newborn. This time though I have a worry of my own and wondered if you wise lot could offer me some advice or even just a bit of perspective.

I've been with my new partner just over a year. We live together with my son and his son comes to us every other weekend. He is a wonderful man in many ways and absolutely adores me. My ex had lied and cheated and I had put up with it for years before finally plucking up the courage to make the break. My new partner knows how the lies killed me and how important it is for us to be open with each other and totally honest.

On Wednesday his ex wife called me to discuss some issues we have been having with my partner's boy when he comes to stay with us. We're really lucky in that we are both on amicable terms with our exes and deal with the children together. Something came up in the conversation though which made me suspicious. She seemed to be skirting around some issues to do with the son which I couldn't understand.

The following morning I spoke to my partner about it and he was equally cagey. I can't be too specific for various reasons but I could basically tell he was lying to me. Thanks to my ex I can spot lies a mile off and just knew. I asked him outright and he just lied to my face, denying anything. All day we were in touch whilst at work and he continued to lie, insisting I was being paranoid, called me stupid, how dare I question his integrity, how dare I believe he could be deceitful, texting me things like 'I AM NOT TELLING LIES'.

In the end it transpires he HAD lied. Over and over and over. Despite so many chances he had refused to admit it and actually turned it around to me and was really quite angry with him for dating to disbelieve him. It turns out he had asked his wife not to tell me something regarding their son and when I grew suspicious, asked her to continue lying for him. They were texting all day yesterday discussing how they could cover it up and then he deleted all the offending messages before he came home.

I am absolutely devastated as I believed he would never lie to me. As it happens I totally understand why he didn't want me to know this issue regarding his son-there is a tremendous amount of guilt and shame there, but what I don't understand is all the lies, anger, deflection onto me and the deleting of messages to cover himself further. I saw patterns of what happened with my ex. He denied things just like he did, right up to the point of having no choice but to admit, but even then only admitting the tiny bit that he had to, and still denying the rest.

I don't know where to go from here. Can I trust this man? He sees it as him getting into a mess by lying the first time and seeing no way out. He was so upset last night and has been begging me all day for forgiveness.

Am I right to be devastated or am I overreacting and allowing my issues with my ex husband to cloud my judgement?

Sorry it's long, but any thoughts would be appreciated.

Thank you.

Boc. X

CogitoErgoSometimes Sat 03-May-14 08:08:24

Tears was it? Well I suppose it's marginally better than calling you stupid and paranoid. hmm Being extremely charitable, he could be genuinely remorseful and have learned from the experience, but that's not going to stop you from thinking back over your relationship so far and wondering if he's hidden anything else or from having your suspicions in future. I'm not surprised you're sad.

BillyBanter Sat 03-May-14 08:24:12

If he'd said 'it's private and I'd rather not say' would you just have left it?

It's not ok that he lied but you seem to say yourself there was an understandable reason behind it. Once the lie is told he stood by it until he couldn't any more. He sounds like he was stuck between a rock and a hard place.

I think you need to make it clear that lying is not acceptable, and pushing your buttons on something from your history is even less acceptable but maybe you also need to assure him that he shouldn't have to be worried about your reactions to things. (It's hard to tell without knowing the full backstory)

Isetan Sat 03-May-14 08:46:58

Actions speak louder than words. You thought he would never lie to you because he said so and now you know different because he's done so.

Listen to Hissy, if you are inclined to 'get past this' then you have to take a very hard line and show him (actions and all that), not tell him, that this is serious.

He knew what your boundaries were and not only did he step over them he rubbed your face in it and recruited his Ex to take part in the performance.

Isetan Sat 03-May-14 09:02:12

BillyBanter "There is something but I'd prefer not to say" was an option. Given her history he chose to do the one thing that was guaranteed to hurt her and questioning her mental health was designed to get her to STFU.

There is a calculated disrespectful nastiness to his behaviour which will make it difficult to dismiss.

BillyBanter Sat 03-May-14 09:12:02

I didn't say it wasn't an option. I asked if she would leave it if he had said that.

There is a backstory here that we are not privy to.

Bocolatechiscuit Sat 03-May-14 21:22:24

Thanks again everyone. We have had a horrible day-lots of tears and sadness but importantly lots of talking too. I've shown him the thread and believe he does genuinely accept what he has done was very wrong. He knows we have a long way to go to getting anywhere near to normal and that he has to work his socks off for me to trust him again, but we both hope and believe that with lots of hard work we can save this.

Thank you again-I really do appreciate it.

oneperfectlimousine Sun 04-May-14 08:05:06

Yes, he knew it was a deal breaker to you, and went ahead and did it anyway - then got aggressive when you challenged him. If he gets away with it now, there will be more. Is he sorry for lying, do you think, sorry for being aggressive, or sorry that he was caught - sorry for himself that is? IMO there's a big difference between sorry for his behaviour and sorry for himself because now he might lose you.

I'd also agree that there were better ways to deal with the situation - saying that they were keeping whatever it is between himself, his ex and his son for now maybe.

mammadiggingdeep Sun 04-May-14 18:52:24

You now know he can lie. And lie. And lie. And keep it up until he HAS to come clean.

Can you be with him knowing that?

Isetan Mon 05-May-14 10:52:01

What exactly OP do you personally have to work on? The lie is the red herring here, the name calling and questioning your mental health is the red flag. The only thing he has learnt from all this is that tears and puppy dog eyes work better at getting you to STFU than abuse.

CinnabarRed Tue 06-May-14 09:53:47

I agree with Isetan.

The other thing I raise is this: in the cold light of day, was it a reasonable thing to have kept from you?

By which I mean: could it affect you, your son or the way either of you interact with your P and/or his son?

I'm concerned that it's something about which your P feels shame and guilt. Ask yourself: did he do something wrong, or bad, that casts additional and unflattering light on himself and which might call his judgements into question? Or his parenting? Is your DSS better off for you knowing? Is your P's reaction of shame and guilt wrong somehow (eg I would struggle to accept it if my DH were ashamed of a gay brother - I know it's not this issue, but something like that might bring a whole other issues to light).

NotNewButNameChanged Tue 06-May-14 10:14:08

There is a thread in AIBU where a guy was saying that he loves his DP who has a 17-yr old daughter who will be his stepdaughter when they marry and live together but that his DP has said that she will never, ever discuss the stepdaughter's father. Ever. He has no idea if this is because the stepdaughter is as the result of some abuse, whether the father is still around, whether he might suddenly show up and cause trouble. And he is not allowed to ask. It is forbidden to even discuss it.

The almost universal consensus was that it is nothing to do with him.

No doubt those people would also argue discussions with the mother of his child isn't actually anything to do with you.

That's one side of things. Of more importance is how he went about it and how he behaved afterwards. THAT, for me, is the deal breaker.

DonkeysDontRideBicycles Tue 06-May-14 10:19:56

It's not ok that he lied but you seem to say yourself there was an understandable reason behind it. Once the lie is told he stood by it until he couldn't any more. He sounds like he was stuck between a rock and a hard place.

He did more than just lie, he piled on the "You're so paranoid and deluded" schtick. And dragged his exW into it.

He knows what OP's former partner was like. He's been in her life a year. He could have lied or evaded without the extra "how dare you" bombast.

But you are keen to salvage this so best of luck I hope he realises how forgiving you are and more importantly that he is honest with you in future.

BrunoBrookesDinedAlone Tue 06-May-14 10:32:01

No. Don't save it.

What you now have is a dynamic where he has colluded with his ex wife to deceive you. So she knows that he's willing to lie to you, and will side with her against you. I couldn't live with that kind of absolute betrayal, and I couldn't even try to stand up and believe that I was even slightly respected when it comes to the ongonig necessary negotiations, discussions, everyday life that she will have to be a part of because of the children etc.

You're right, it's not the original lie - though that is bad, you could accept that issues surrouding his son might very well not be your business (although just saying that would be better than trying to lie).

It's what has come after that - utter deceitfulness. You know what he's capable of. The fact that he's paraded how little he respects you in front of his ex (who will either be thinking 'thank god that sucker isn't me any more' OR laughing her socks off at you) would simply be the icing on a very nasty cake.

Infernal Tue 06-May-14 18:40:07

Once the lies start, they go on. You need to explain to this guy that this is the last time. Relationships cannot be built on lies. Stick it to him and his ex, that you won't tolerate it.

AnyFucker Tue 06-May-14 23:16:55

This thread illustrates precisely why it's often not the original lie that is the problem, but the gaslighting and attempts to batter down your self belief by the liar that is really so very corrosive

What a shame this man really did demonstrate so overtly he is just like any other liar, and yes, employed the very same tactics your ex did

The rose tinted spectacles are crushed and in the dustbin now, I expect

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