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Please Read (Social Services)

(365 Posts)
Rivah Wed 16-Apr-14 20:25:17


(Sorry if I have posted this in the wrong category and sorry for the bad grammar, I am using my phone)

Feeling quiet alone right now and would appreciate some kind advice please.

I am a mother of 2 boys age 5&6 there father was recently remanded in custody,

I got a phone call from his aunt yesterday she told me that he wants the boys to go and stay with her until he gets out, because he “doesn’t trust me with them” he is only doing this out of spite because I stopped him from seeing the boys. (Due to him leaving them at places, and taking them to places where children shouldn’t be going to, and exposing other women to them)

I have told his aunt that I will not give them to her and that they are staying with me, now she has threatened to call social services.

I was admitted into hospital last year where I spent 6 weeks due to having an emotional breakdown during early stages of my breakdown I had the home treatment team come and visit me daily. There was a day (when it was decided I should go into hospital for a break) I was really low, my symptoms were (low mood, continuously crying, not eating) I wasn’t doing this in front of the boys. They said that they were concerned about the welfare of the boys and got in contact with social services who came and paid a visit, they had no concern about my living conditions, but they were concern about the boys staying with me whilst I was feeling the way I was.

So I called for their father’s aunt to come and get them (We were close at the time) she helped me a lot with my recovery which I am very grateful for.

Since my Boys father has been in custody my eldest is like another child (both of them are usually so well behaved) he has started being very aggressive, hitting me and his little brother, swearing, not listening etc.

Today I took the two of them out with a friend of mine I didn’t want to due to the way he has been behaving but it wouldn’t be fair on my 5 year old, he played up all day we all just choose to ignore him, until punched his little brother in the face in a shop knocking him to the floor, I couldn’t ignore that, I was so angry I slapped him I didn’t mean to slap him as hard as I did.

I am really worried now in case EX’s aunt calls social services and my son tells them that I hit him, me and her are not on good terms anymore and she can be very devious.

So could I please have some help with how to deal with my Sons behaviour he hasn’t stopped since we got in this evening, and he is just getting worst by the day.(Worried that I might have another break down) And please some help in how to deal with Social Services if they pay me a visit.
Thanks for reading

wolfwhistler Wed 16-Apr-14 20:33:58

The little boy needs help, he is angry, confused and upset. He has been thru such a lot that even a full grown adult would struggle with.

Get help for him

heyday Wed 16-Apr-14 20:37:05

You are obviously very stressed at the moment. I think you should sit down with your children and tell them a bit about what us going on. Tell them that daddy loves them but he can't be there at the moment. Apologise to your son. Although he was being naughty it's not right to hit him. You should say sorry and tell him that hitting is not good behaviour. You need to ensure that you keep firm but fair boundaries in place as I presume that your boys are feeling very frightened and vulnerable at the moment. Do you have any support? Friends? Family? That you could turn to. The boys will be back at school again soon so you will get a little respite then. Are there support agencies around that could give you more advice,perhaps ones that deal with those caught up in the criminal justice system. You must look after yourself and try to ensure that you eat and sleep as well as you can to help you cope with these mammoth demands upon you.

Rivah Wed 16-Apr-14 20:43:22

Thanks for answering. How can I get him help? And I don't have much support I think I need professional support.

freemanbatch Wed 16-Apr-14 20:44:29

get ahead of the game, make a doctors appointment and ask for help for yourself and your children. take anything they offer and do all you can to help your children.

you could speak to social services yourself, tell them the children's dad is in custody, your kids aren't coping and you need some help in supporting them. social services can be brilliant in times of crisis, they really aren't as scary as people think.

good luck

bochead Wed 16-Apr-14 20:48:40

Go and see your GP and ask for a referral to family therapy as soon as you can. Do the same when you return to school (two pronged approach more likely to work in getting help this century).

In the meantime what will SS see if they come out? Poor mite has been thru a lot and you are asking for help - can't see what Aunty can cause in the way of trouble there tbh? She's barking up the wrong tree anyway. You aren't allowed to just "GIVE" your kids to anyone for longer than 28 days anyway now by law without clearing it first with SS. Daft cow.

Given that one parent has disappeared from the scene while he's in prison, it's not rocket science to think that actually your daily presence in a wee boy of 5's life is more important for that insecure child's emotional security than ever right now. It's MUCH cheaper for them to provide you with a bit of counselling and behavior management training than to fund a foster placement for two kids. Your goals and those of SS align - Aunty is the one out in the cold here.

Distance yourself from the Aunt till you feel a bit stronger, as her threatening you isn't the way to help at this moment in time, it's just bullying & totally counter productive. It's the holidays and the sun is shining - hit the parks with your lads, laugh cry and play with them and remind them you love them to bits.

Be firm, loving and consistent with them, stick to a sensible routine - let them witness with their own eyes that Mum is 100% reliable, providing secure emotional boundaries and that they need expect no more unpleasant suprises on the horizon. The book 123 magic is used on a lot of parenting courses to help families in turmoil achieve this. It might be worth grabbing a second hand copy off amazon.

Fidelia Wed 16-Apr-14 20:55:04

Your boys are probably very scared that you are going to leave them too. Children who are scared,and especially scared of being abandoned,often either get angry and lash out, or get withdrawn and depressed.

I know you are dealing with so much right now, but both your boys need lots of hugs and reassurance, that you love them and daddy loves them and nothing they did made daddy go away.

I also agree that you need to say sorry to your son for slapping him and explain that sometimes we get angry because we're scared or hurting. It's ok to feel scared, hurt, angry, but it's not ok to hurt people..and then try to encourage him to talk about his feelings throughout the day.

So when he gets angry etc, try and name the feeling to him "I can see you're feeling X" or ask him "Are you feeling X?" and then reassure him "It's ok to feel X (but it's not ok to do Y [if he hurt someone etc])" and then offer him an alternative "Would you like a hug?". He may reject you, but you've offered him affection and love, which helps reassures him that even when he pushes you away, you aren't going anywhere.

He will get through it, but it will take time. He's hurting and he's scared...maybe you can relate?

Rivah Wed 16-Apr-14 21:30:06

Thanks for the advice ladies, really feeling low at the moment. I am not going to apologise to him for slapping him, he has and still is continuously bullying his little brother. I will sit him down and speak to him tomorrow but I can't see it doing much help as he is now out of control he is telling me he isn't scared of me and he's not going to listen to me.

NotQuiteSoOnEdge Thu 17-Apr-14 00:04:04

Your last post is a little worrying. Can you see that your 6 year old is scared and is lashing out through fear? He's lost his dad and that is frightening, whatever the reason. He's left with all these worries. Is it my fault? Did I do something? Why did daddy do X? Why can't I see daddy? When's he coming home? Will mummy be ok without him? Will we all be ok without him? He controls and bullies his brother to feel a fleeting sense of control in an out of control life. The bravado is part of the same thing. He's essentially testing YOU. Can you handle it? Can you keep us all safe? Can you contain all my angry feelings or are you going to disappear too?

Of course, what he is doing is totally wrong, but there are some very important reasons behind it. He does, unfortunately, need you to be a steady safe parent who consistently holds the line. It takes time, but if you calmly and consistently keep saying 'it's ok to feel X, not ok to do Y?' he will get there.

Can you tell this has been my life for the last 10 months with my 6 yr old DS? It's exhausting. But try to keep your love and empathy for your son at the forefront, and hold fast.

You do need to say sorry, because if it's not ok to hit, then it's not ok to hit. For anybody. You would expect him to apologise to his brother. You absolutely must MODEL the behaviour you want to get, there's no way round that one. Sorry.

CAMHS have got my back, and have been an amazing support. You could ask your GP for a referral, they can see both him and you to help with this.

And don't worry about the aunt. You are their mother. There won't even be a discussion. They need you more than anything.

maggiemight Thu 17-Apr-14 04:13:18

Notquitesoonedge has it right.

Your little boy is not being naughty he is anxious and confused, his DF has gone, his DM has been unwell, what will happen next, where will I go, will Aunt take me, will DM go away like DF???

So you need advice and support on how to help him and to protect DS2.

FolkGirl Thu 17-Apr-14 06:24:08

Notquitesoonedge is absolutely right.

Your little boy is not being 'naughty'. He is desperately sad and terribly scared and very confused. He lacks the emotional maturity and vocabulary to realise and tell you this, so he needs his mother to realise it. What he needs is your reassurances and your love, which is the best way to counter this behaviour rather than punishments. He is crying out for you to wrap your arms around him, hold him tightly and make some sense of his life at the moment.

Punishing him will make him feel more alone and just send him the message that, "You know you are feeling like this world is an unsafe place right now? Well it is, and this is your proof." He needs you to make it right for him.

I would apologise to him for slapping him if I were you. I would also advise lots of cuddles and telling him how much you love him. Ask him what he would like to do over the holidays and try and fit some treats in. Go to the dr/speak to the school and organise some support.

SS will only be concerned if you are not safeguarding your children and meeting their needs.

Rivah Thu 17-Apr-14 17:03:08

Hi Evening

I tried sitting him down and talking to him, he wasn't interested wouldn't stay seated. Today has been another BAD day, he is still bullying his little brother I told him it is wrong and told him to apologise but he wouldn't. I took the two of them to the park in which he carried on his violent behaviour to other peoples children. Had to apologise to another childs parent she wasn't happy and told me "I need to control him" it took us an hour to get home from the park because he wouldn't move (it's a 10 minute walk) once home I set a punishment for him which was no playing on the games console, or the iPads which led him telling me how much he hates me, how stupid I am and him calling me a "b*th" I didn't retaliate I just ignored him. Needed to take a trip to the Sainsburys where he started kicking and punching (because I wouldn't get him an £80 toy) felt so embarrassed, I didn't hit him back. It was a struggle getting him back to the car and in the car. Now we are home he has spent the last 5 minutes kicking his football at my television.

I haven't yet explain to him about their Dad, I have told the both of them "Daddy has gone away for being naughty" 5yo asked me "How do you know?" my 6yo asked me "What did he do?". The truth is their father is been charged with Murder, I don't know the full details but I know that that charge if found guilty is up to life imprisonment. Telling them that their Dad might not ever be coming home will break the pair of them.

Their Aunt called me this morning from someone elses number saying she is coming for the boys tonight "so have their things ready" she then put the phone down. When she does come here I will not open the door to her.

(Sorry about Grammar using my phone)

mummytime Thu 17-Apr-14 17:15:10

I think you need to tell them that Daddy has not been put in prison for "being naughty". They are probably terrified that someone is going to put them in prison.

If his behaviour is really challenging, you need to go to your GP and ask for help. Your DS can be referred for counselling (yes even at 6). You need some parenting advice. But you need to start doing.
You've had some really good advice here - please take it.

Joules68 Thu 17-Apr-14 17:20:10

What time tonight? Can you be out?

Are the boys close to her? Will they see her and want to go..... Could make your eldest worse.

FolkGirl Thu 17-Apr-14 17:20:22


I don't have time to answer in detail, but this aunt has no authority over you or your children.

You do not have to give your children to this woman when she turns up. You are their primary carer, there is nothing she can do.

Do not let them go with her. If she starts banging on doors/making threats then call the police.

They can do whatever they like but if your children's dad is being charged with murder, then SS would take a very dim view of you allowing them to be taken to him by a woman (aunt or otherwise) who just demanded to take them.

Make a doctors appointment tomorrow and request some support. That is what you should have done today. So do it tomorrow.

Matildathecat Thu 17-Apr-14 17:20:33

If she comes and starts making a fuss call the Police.

And please, please ask for help with the boys. Do you have a local children's centre? They often have great resources available and you can self refer. As others have said do also ask your GP for an urgent CAHMs referral. Proactively asking for help and support will look very good and also hopefully be very helpful,

I really feel for you the eldest does sound draining. Try to keep to a very low key and predictable routine to make life feel safe. Try to avoid calling daddy naughty and going away as it will be confusing to them if I am naughty will I be sent away? On a practical level can you try to separate them as much as possible? And do you have anyone who could lend a hand?

Lastly try thinking about the boys as much younger than they actually are for now. Scared, confused and unsafe. Treat them as such, very calm, empathetic and avoiding conflicts wherever you can.

And very lastly please look after yourself. This all sounds really, really hard.xx

heyday Thu 17-Apr-14 17:23:16

It sounds like things are getting on top of you at the moment. Your sons must be devastated to hear that their dad went away because 'they were naughty'. They probably think what's the point in being good as the worst thing has already happened ie their dad has left them. It sounds like things between yourself and their auntie is quite broken but are you sure that it wouldn't be of some help if she took them for a couple of days to give you all a bit of a break from the intensity? You need family counselling and lots of professional support. For all your sakes I truly hope you get it.

Rivah Thu 17-Apr-14 17:27:06

MummyTime I will call my surgery on Saturday and make an appointment. Joules68 If she does come both the boys will want to go with her as they love auntie, she didn't tell me what time she is coming, and I won't leave my house because of her I'm sick and tired of bein bullied by his family. Matilda this is very draining I've already had two panic attacks today.

FolkGirl Thu 17-Apr-14 17:30:49

If she does come both the boys will want to go with her as they love auntie

Just keep telling yourself that you are the parent and, as the parent who isn't being charged with murder (!), you have the power of veto as to what happens to those children.

Don't give the children to this woman. You have no control over what she or their dad will do once you do. You need to protect these children. Their dad and this aunt are thinking about what meets their dad's needs at the moment, not what meets theirs.

FolkGirl Thu 17-Apr-14 17:31:32

Have you got someone who can come round and support you?

FlankShaftMcWap Thu 17-Apr-14 17:35:09

Given that the Aunt has expressed her intention to take your boys tonight I think you should call the non emergency police right now and explain the situation. At the very least you want this flagged to ensure a swift response if you need to call them again this evening. Do no open the door. Do not engage her in conversation. Is there anyone you trust who can stay with you tonight? You need support with this.

As far as your DS is concerned I think you need to go down the route of ignoring bad behaviour as far as possible and rewarding good behaviour. Lots and lots of hugs, affection and tell both boys you love them as often as possible. Fill as much time as you can with activities, make easter cards, decorate eggs, paint, read, board games, anything at all to keep their minds occupied and give them positive stimulation.

This will pass. I had a very similar situation with my DS, a family member did in fact take him from school and when the police brought him back to me he was a different boy sad
Hideous time, but it passed. It will for you too, you just need to ensure your boys feel loved and secure no matter what.

Rivah Thu 17-Apr-14 17:41:44

I have no one who can come and support me FolkGirl. Flank I am not going to call the police just yet I might if she comes causing a scene I'll try some activities with the both of them tomorrow thanks

VelmaD Thu 17-Apr-14 17:51:47

Rivah, in a six year olds head he may well be doing naughty things to see his dad. His dad went to prison for being naughty ergo if he is naughty he will go there to and see daddy.

I totally feel for you. My boys are hard work at six and seven, and the physical violence can drive me to tears at times. But you can get through it. I am a loud parent - one of those that tells them off loudly and clearly so everyone around can see we are trying. They also get removed from things and toys long term - ds2 lost his tablet for three months once, they've lost the Wii for a month before. I physically removed them and they knew about it. And it did to an extent work - most of our behaviour is lip and Asd related now.

chocolatesaltyballs Thu 17-Apr-14 17:55:53

OP I agree with calling the police on 101.

I've found a couple of links of organisations that may be able to give you some support:

FlankShaftMcWap Thu 17-Apr-14 17:59:55

If she turns up and causes a scene you may end up in a situation where your boys are aware of who is there and why, you say they would probably want to go with her. This worries me and that's why I feel you might benefit from police advice right now.

My DS was taken by a family member who was obsessed with him and spoiled him rotten. Of course he wanted to go with her when she took him. When the police intervened and brought him home he was very resentful and angry that I hadn't let him stay with her. He couldn't understand why what she had done was wrong and it manifested itself in some pretty horrific behaviour. I'm worried for your DS if an Aunt he trusts and loves turns up demanding to take him. Gosh what an awful situation you're in, my gut is twisting for you OP.

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