Bitter mother... I'm at breaking point

[mumtoone1]

I'll try and keep it as brief as possible while at the same time trying to help myself by venting some of the anger out.

My mother is a very bitter person. I could stop there but i'll go on...

It all started around 8 years ago when my mum and dad, married for 25 years split up. My dad had had enough and finally called an end.

Shes still angry about this. she has remained on her own the entire time slowly sprialling into a bitter mess and drinking excessively (though she never admits it). I understand she is lonely.

My brother doesn't speak to her due to her bitterness and nearly all of her family and friends have disappeared, therefore I am the only one left.

She believes they are all wrong and she is the sane one.

I am married, have a great relationship with my husband and son and more importantly my dad as well as my inlaws.

She gets jealous at any mention of their names. We live close to our inlaws and she resents the fact that we see them constantly as well as holiday with them. I love their company.

She complains that we never visit (we try to visit at least once a month, we live 2 hours drive away).

We are unable to spend more than a few hours together before we argue. The arguments are normally due to her comments. Example below;

Mum "what did you get up to last night?"
Me "went out for dinner and then to the cinema"
Mum "Oh what it must be like to be made of money..."

Mum "What did you last weekend?"
Me "visited dad"
Mum "I don't know why he gets to see you all the time, after what he did to me, what goes around comes around"
Me "What does this have to do with me?"

Her comments are beyond bitter. She drinks excessively now, though refuses to admit it. The last few times I have phoned her around 6:30pm she has been drunk but has refused to admit it, saying she is tired. She says she cannot afford to drink but I borrowed a carrier bag from her recently to take something home and inside was a reciept for a bottle of barcadi.

She loves my son to death, but lately, he has been annoyed by her comments (he is 12) she says things to him like "do you not love me anymore" (apparently jokingly) and "why do you never call me" He's still a child and it hurts him and its got the point where he doesn't even want to call her anymore. He's old enough to see the biterness too.

My husband dislikes my mother and normally hides in another room as he can't stand her comments towards us and me. I've had her up for Christmas day every year since she split with my dad however 2 years ago I decided no more as I wouldn't see my husband.....

I told her today I was going on holiday with my inlaws this year. She began making jealous comments and asked why they got to spend so much time with me and she didn't. I had to hang up.

I wanted to tell her the truth. The truth that I couldn't handle 1 full day with her let alone a 2 week holiday.

I sometimes wish I could tell her I don't ever want to see her again.

And relax....

[HotDAMNlifeisgood]

I don't really know what to suggest, but I empathise.

I limit interactions with my mother, dodge holiday "opportunities", and just breathe and change the subject when she gets a catty comment in.

You can cut or limit contact with her if you want. You are perfectly free to choose how many visits, phone calls etc she gets, and stick to what you have decided is best for you.

Your son is wise - children have a very strong sense of right and wrong, I find. However, he may be socialised into accepting this kind of behaviour from others, not just from your mother, if it is presented to him as normal and acceptable, and something to be glossed over. And given the fact that she drinks, too, I would make sure not to leave him alone with her.

Regarding her influence on his development, have you had talks with him about how her comments make him feel, where you reinforce that he is right to feel upset by them - that she is not kind and polite? This of course then opens the question of whether you should call her on her bitter comments whenever she makes them in his presence... Hard to teach him that it is wrong, but then watch her get away with it in practice. What do you think you should do?

[plentyofsoap]

I am sorry you are in this position it is very hard. My mother sounds similar in regards to the bitterness and it is draining. For other added reasons I went nc along time ago sadly without much regret.
Even if you tried to get extra help for her (gp) would it be accepted? If it is having a negative impact on your dh and ds you have some serious decisions to make. Some people never change but they are always responsible for their own lives.

[AttilaTheMeerkat]

I presume you are now the only one who still bothers with her. Its hard to be the last one left.

You have a choice re your mother and she is not going to change.

What do you get from your relationship with your mother, what needs of yours are being met here by her?.

At the very least your boundaries re her are set far too low and you're giving her more ammo to lob in your direction. Let her go.

A good rule of thumb here is that if she is too difficult/nasty/toxic for you to deal with, then she is far too toxic for both your vulnerable and defenceless child.

[chattychattyboomba]

I had it out with my mum a while ago. I told her that she may be angry about what has been done to her, and that is a horrible feeling, but that she can't expect me to take on her anger because it is between her and my sister/dad/nan/aunt (common denominator???) and I am entitled to have a relationship with these people. And please do not bitch about or slate them in front of me because I have a lot of love for these people and it hurts me to hear it. Also explained that I wouldn't bitch about her to them.
Naturally she blew up completely. "How dare you not stick up for me I listen to your problems! Never again!"
That's when I said- "that's because you are my mother and maybe I was stupid enough to expect that you would want to support and advise me as a mother should, you know? Like motherly wisdom? And I never bitch about those you love, but a daughter is not responsible for fixing her mother's problems...that's what their friends are for!" (Go find some bloody friends and get a life!)
To which she replied- no that's what husbands are for and I don't have one so I'm sorry but you are selfish and blah blah blah.

Old dog, new tricks etc.

Anyway that's why I live thousands of miles away and have the option to distance myself emotionally.

I really feel for you. It's a tough balance when this is the person who gave you life, but are a negative impact on it.

[mumtoone1]

Thanks guys. Glad I'm not the only one in this position!! xx

[sonjadog]

What would happen if you told her that you couldn't stand being around her negativity and that's why you wouldn't ever go on holiday with her? Would she take that on board at all?

My mother has negative tendencies and she could be a lot harder work than she is. I had a difficult conversation with her about it a little over a year ago and although she was very upset at the time, she did take in on board and has improved greatly. There aren't any alcohol issues in the picture with her though and I know through experience that that does change the issue a lot.

[mumtoone1]

Whatever way I word it she'll take it badly. She honestly does not see what she is doing wrong.

We've had discussions in the past and things improved for a bit but then always gone back to where it is now.

I envy my brother for cutting ties all those years ago. I wish I had done it first. I suppose what's stopping me now is I fear what she would do. I have know doubt she would either drink herself into a terrible mess or something much worse. All of which would be on my head.

[sonjadog]

I don't think there is really much you can do about it until she wants to get help herself, but she may never do that. I know several older women who have wasted over twenty years of their lives being bitter about their divorces. It seems that the victim mentality is so well-entenched that they can't see anything but it now.

If I were you, I'd try to detach as much as possible. Be there for her in a practical way, but no enabling and no tolerance of negative comments about your in-laws or other family members. Refuse to be drawn into conversation about any of them. If she goes on, then you suddenly have something important to do and have to get off the phone.

[Tex111]

Just to say you're not alone. Similar issues with my mother and I've recently made the sad decision to distance myself. I try to do my duty as a daughter but nothing else. No emotional involvement or tolerating bad behaviour. The turning point for me was seeing my children upset by the horribleness I had learned to tolerate. The situation does make me very sad but I know that my mother will never change.

[LoonvanBoon]

I sympathize, OP, as my mum was similar in many ways. She didn't drink too much, & as she died before I had children there were obviously no grandchildren issues. But she seemed consumed by bitterness - as in your mum's case, connected with her divorce - & the victim mentality she assumed in relation to that did spill over into other relationships.

She made it very, very difficult for me to maintain any kind of relationship with my dad during my teenage years, & couldn't tolerate any mention of his name without making some nasty comment. She was vile to me at times when I did insist on visiting him, & included my dad's partner in her spite, even though they didn't meet until years after the divorce. It was awful.

Then there were fall-outs with other people (friends, relatives) which would be accompanied by the same victim narrative, & the accusation that I was "disloyal" because I refused to get involved in her rows; or, even worse, stayed on good terms with the people in question.

In our case I never cut contact permanently, though there were times when I considered it. I certainly never went back home for more than a couple of weeks after I left for university because it was just intolerable - by then she was jealous of my friends, boyfriends, friends' parents if I spent time with them - everyone was seen as some kind of threat to her.

However, as I got older & developed a sense of my own boundaries (though I'd never heard the term!) things did start to improve. I started doing a lot of the things sonjadog refers to - refusing to listen to her bitch about other people, refusing to discuss my dad with her, putting the 'phone down if necessary when she started. I didn't go home at Christmas after a couple of dreadful ones. And I did once effectively go NC for several months, because I told her I just wasn't prepared to discuss certain people with her; & that she needed to accept that before she contacted me again.

Things weren't perfect, by any means. I did try & talk to her about how much her attitude had hurt me, but she always refused to admit how difficult she'd been & even now (she's been dead over 10 years) I occasionally feel angry when I think about what she was like when I was still living at home & not able to put boundaries in place. I would never behave like that towards my children.

But in general being assertive, firm & consistent did yield results, & we had a good adult-to-adult relationship in the last years of her life. Perhaps she wasn't as bad as your mum, OP - she was certainly still capable of having fun & being good company, & wasn't full of self-pity most of the time. Just very bitter towards a number of people, & lacking in self-awareness.

Have you tried to set boundaries & rigidly enforce them? Have you tried talking to her about how upsetting you find it listening to her nasty comments? As I said, the latter didn't work for me, the former did to a large extent, but everyone's different. Sorry to go on so much about my own situation - your post resonated & brought back memories.

Incidentally I don't regret the fact that I had to be quite firm with my mum, even though she's no longer around. It allowed us a better relationship that we'd ever have had otherwise, & was essential for my mental wellbeing. And if I'd had my children then, I'd never have hesitated to put their emotional wellbeing first.

Oddly my mum was lovely - all the bitterness gone - when she was ill & dying. It had seemed so entrenched, yet I wonder if it was ever more than a terrible habit, almost like an addiction. That does make me feel dubious about the idea that the human race can be neatly divided up into the "toxic" & "non-toxic" people. I think the reality is much less black & white.

[kentishgirl]

I feel sorry for your mum; she's very unhappy and her unhappiness is making her behave in a way that is driving those she loves away from her. She is trapped in a cycle of negative thoughts and behaviour that are harming her.

But I also feel for you for being in this difficult position.

You've spoken to her about it in the past and it hasn't helped. Perhaps she needs a bit more of a shock to the system with you clearly spelling out how her behaviour is effecting your relationship, and that you are starting to think of going non-contact like your brother. But that you want to give things one last try (I get the impression you love your mother but just can't handle any more of this). Tell her that. Lay down some rules - not to bad mouth other people you love, not to do the pity party thing about you seeing other people and not giving her all your time. Try and balance it out with some positive suggestions - she's unhappy, she's lonely, what can she do and how can you help her overcome that. How can she improve her social life? What have you got to lose? Either she'll wake up and things will be better, or she'll go off in a huff and you won't have to keep talking to her.

[ormirian]

How about writing her a letter laying out the difficulties you have with her attitude. Don't be harsh or angry, just factual. Tell her that until this is addressed there will be no visits. Advise her to see a counsellor.

Victimhood is a drug, an addiction, IMO. Wallowing feels good, and I am sure booze helps that along. H had an affair in 2012. It was so tempting to wallow in self-pity and recriminations but in the end it was killing me and making reconciliation impossible. She needs to face and accept what happened, she doesn't need to accept blame, but accept that the break-up happened, and then move on. A counsellor will help her. You are not her counsellor.

[struggling100]

I feel for you, OP. It's not easy to be in the middle of warring parties, and I have to say I think you're being superhumanly patient with her in the circumstances. Maybe even a bit too patient??

First of all, your Mum is in a bit of a state. I imagine she's still raw with the pain and bitterness of being left, hence her jealousy and oversensitivity about your spending time with other family members. She really needs to see a counsellor and get some proper help. However, you can't make that happen. I think the only way you can deal with this is to set some limits in your relationship with her, which unfortunately is going to involve a difficult conversation. One thing that I think it's important to get clear with her is that there is a difference between caring for someone very deeply and 'taking sides'. You may already have done this, but if I were in your shoes, I'd sit her down and tell her that I loved her to bits, and would do anything to help her out, but that I wouldn't take sides in a fight between family members. I would explain that it made me feel just awful to be pushed to do so, that I understood that she was angry, but that I wouldn't accept negative comments about others and that if she made these, I would have to leave. And then stick to it, very firmly and very calmly!! The key is to set the boundary and not to lose your temper (easier said than done!)

Second of all, I really think you should tell her that you're worried about the drinking, in as gentle and non-judgemental a way as possible. She's clearly ashamed of it, since she's lying to you and telling you that she's tired rather than wasted. Perhaps contact some charities that deal with alcohol abuse and get some specialist advice about how to raise this, and what services might be available in her area to ensure that she can receive help.

[Lbtyrie]

This very much describes my mother too. I do feel for you. I have not found any solutions other than being confident in your dealings with her, drawing clear boundaries, not feeling guilty at her constant demands. Limiting the amount of time when you do visit. It sounds like you have a handle on it. It’s just frustrating that there is no cure and all the management is on you.

I also struggle with her relationship with my stepfather. It’s like my children are to be offered up to him as some pseudo family for him. His attitude to girls is a bit ropey too. I am tempted to move abroad some times..

[TurtleCavalryIsSeriousShit]

My MIL was exactly like this. I'm afraid it doesn't get any better.

She was still bitter about her divorce, 25 years later! She was the eternal victim. Nothing was ever good enough.

There was also the drinking. I tried very very hard with her, but had to cut contact when she grabbed a butcher's knife whilst drunk and tried to cut her wrists in front of me. We struggled for the knife and I realised that I could've got hurt and I had a small baby at home.

She did many other things and refused to apologise as it was the drink talking.

She pushed everyone away and unfortunately I predicted how she would pass away and I was right. She lay in her house for 3 weeks before anyone found her. (In the past she would ignore all calls until we get the police to knock her door down and she'd be sitting in the living room with her vodka, laughing.)

I think you're going to have to disengage. Don't feel guilty. She has brought this on herself.

If you still want contact, maybe you should call her out every time. Say 'Well, the in-laws don't moan as much as you' when she complains about you seeing them. But do it sort of lighthearted and then change the subject. It might sink in after while? Who knows.

Good luck!

[DiscontinuedModelHusband]

another to say you need to call her out on it.

you don't need to do it nastily - it can come from a place of love.
set some clear boundaries and stick to them.

point out who's losing out the most from her behaviour - it's not your dad, or brother, or inlaws or their families - they're carrying on happily!

it might make no difference.
my grandad refused to attend the same family events as my grandmother for 60-odd years (just making exceptions for weddings).

though he did accept that we would continue our relationships with her regardless, and didn't try and dissuade us from that.

though i suspect that it took a long time for him to reach that level of acceptance.

[MyNameIsRachelAndIWantAPresent]

I could have written your post. My parent split up 25 years ago and my mum turned into a bitter and manipulative child.
You can try calling her out, but it never worked for me and just added fuel to the fire and increased her victim mentality.
We are now LC/grey rock as I can't be bothered to deal with it anymore. I simply ran out of patience.
But my DM has been an amazing grandparent and there were a few years when she was almost normal, but since the kids have grown up and moved on, her frustrations have returned full force and it's all coming back round to being my fault. If I were a better, kinder daughter, her life would be wonderful. But whatever I do, it's never enough and she'll never be happy. So as my actions make no discernible difference to her, I've stopped doing pretty much everything. Sad, but necessary for my own mental health.

[DiscontinuedModelHusband]

@MyNameIsRachel interesting - what do you think your mum would have wanted you to do differently?

[MyNameIsRachelAndIWantAPresent]

@DiscontinuedModelHusband - I have no idea. I've tried to include her in our family life as much as I can, but it never makes her happy. She is always unhappy. She never appreciates what she has, she is always concentrating on what she doesn't have and how she can manipulate me into giving her the MORE she craves. Years ago, I went through the process of giving her more and more, hoping it would make her happy, but it never did.
I think she has too much time on her hands. I'm guessing she talks to her friends about what their daughter's do for them and then conflates all that into what I should do. So say she has one friend who always goes for Sunday dinner, one friend who always has lunch, one friend who is taken shopping - she would then expect me to do all of those as that is what 'everybody else' does. So I am compared to the sum of everybody else's daughters.
She also has this weird logic that because I work full time, have a house to look after, kids etc, I have to be the one who organises everything. She would never ask me (or the family) round for a meal round because she can't be bothered to cook. She never invites me out to the cinema, theatre, or anything at all. So she sits at home thinking about the things she could be doing if only she had a better daughter.
If I invited her for tea every night she would still be upset because there would be lunchtimes when she was not invited.
My brother (golden child) never gets any of this. For example, If she is not invited to an event by me, I get an earful because she is ENTITLED to go to everything . If my brother doesn't invite her to a similar event with his family, she would never say anything to him.
But after 25 years, I've finally given up stressing about it. It's a game I can't win, however hard I try. It's taken me years to realise that she will always be unhappy with me so there is no point in even trying.

[Robin2323]

Would you accept this from a beloved 3 year old?
No
Your dm is acting like a toddler .

Firm boundaries.

As for being your fault if she turns ti drink - unless You are pouring it Down her throat- you are not responsible x

[Motherof2babies]

I know this thread is old and I am hoping someone might answer but have any of your settled your issue with the parent ?

I have a toxic mother, always negative, always criticizes, bitter beyond belief. No matter what you do it is never enough and is easily forgotten. She is single and lives alone. She seperated 13 years ago from my adopted father who lived a double life 10 out of the 23 years they were together. (Yes... I know... hard to believe but he promised both my mother and the other woman that he would leave the other) needless to say she has been bitter about relationships since. Out of those 23 years with him, she wanted marriage and he didn't. She would ruin our Christmas every year when she would not find an engagement ring in the tree by drinking excessively. She would become verbally agressive when she drank, even physical at times.

I was 18 when she had a huge argument with him. He left the house and refused to answer his phone. She proceeded to try and force me to call him because she knew he would answer if the call came from me. When I refused to get involved, she proceeded to smash my personal belongings inclusing an imported jewelery box that I received as a gift. I had to grab her and push her onto the sofa because she was out of control. I spent my night shaking at the fact that I physically has to grab her to get her to stop. Well, the next morning came and she claimed to not remember a thing.

Fast forward 23 years....

Her brother and sister do not want to talk to her. She hasn't spoken to them in years and often when she gets drunk, she calls me or her sister between 7:30 p.m. - 8:00 p.m. to give us crap for nothing and insult us.

I work with her, so each time she gets drunk, she calls me to pick a fight and threatens to fire me (which she has.... numerous times). I got so fed up that I returned to school at 40 to pursue another career and get away from her (which I am in the process of completing). She is a control freak and will stop at nothing to get her way.

I used to fight with her because she wanted to always take vacations several times a year (which was not the problem) but she wanted to dump her dog at my house even when my ex did not want dogs at home. My ex and I would get into severe arguments about her and her dog and even though I would tell her she is causing problems between me and the ex, she didn't care as long as I took her dog.

I have 1 child from a previous relationship and one from my current marriage. She claimed that she was happy for me that I got married and claimed that she liked him. We then were all at a restaurant when she tried to get me to watch her dog and I told her enough already. She then stormed out of the restaurant on foot after calling me a bitch. She continued to persist until my husband was fed up and basically told her no means no and respect our decision. From this point she hated my husband and resents our daughter (even calling her bitch as a baby because she was crying)

She is not grandmother of the year. She purchases things here and there for the kids but does not interact with them at all. When my eldest would go to her house, I would ask her what she did all day and basically they would go out for breakfast then she would color or watch TV on her own. She tries to buy her way into her life not do any activites.

If I don't call her on a weekend (when I see her ll week) she is bitter on Monday and gives me the silent treatment. I have told her that I am fed up with her outbursts of insults and threats when she is drunk and she then proceeds to tell me that she will get help just to get what she wants because she never gets help for her drinking.

I am sorry to ramble on but I am curious to know if anyone solved their problem with their parent and what did you do ?

She keeps telling me that I would regret and be sad if she passed but not to mean and I don't wish it on anyone but I honestly believe I would feel relieved.

Thanks for reading !

[Bonbon21]

" I have know doubt she would either drink herself into a terrible mess or something much worse. All of which would be on my head."

You need to lose this guilt trip.
Your mother is an adult. She, and she alone, is responsible for her life now. She CHOOSES to mope and drink and bitch and bring other people down. You are not responsible. She made her choices throughout her marriage and her life since she has been single.
Tell her she is driving you away.. like she has already done to your brother.. tell her she has a choice... and make it clear YOU WILL WALK AWAY.
You owe it to your son, your husband AND yourself to live the best life you can. You make that choice.

[cheeseismydownfall]

@motherof2babies, I'm sorry, that sounds very hard. You'll get much better support if copy and paste your post into a new thread - lots of posters won't see your update and it is frustrating to reply to a zombie thread.

[cheeseismydownfall]

ZOMBIE THREAD

[Thisisworsethananticpated]

Totally emphasise
That’s all I can say