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Sex... Again(77 Posts)
Have got myself into a silly situation... Again... <head desk>
New bf... The one who can be flakey and immature... <yes I know although he has been a bit better recently>
Been doing BDSM, he is mostly the submissive ATM.
Was initially reluctant to play dom but found I enjoyed and was good at it. Have discussed with him previously that my ability/desire to be cruel comes from having been abused by men and is directly tapping into those (well repressed) feelings of hate.
He initially found this exciting. I know... He's quite immature, the relationship is not particularly serious. I felt this was better than freaking out, we discussed it...
I have discovered he is not particularly good at knowing what he is comfortable with though. He wants me to be ever increasingly cruel, which I am. He usually is very excited by this.
However, the other night I broke him... Literally... When he said the safety word, we were doing something he decided he wanted as a reward, it was ill advised in my view, but he was insistent without really thinking/knowing about what it would be like/listening to me about necessary preparation. I did stop immediately when he pretty much inevitably didn't like it, but felt utter contempt and full of hate for him and found it very hard to mellow and become sympathetic and comforting.
He was extremely emotional for a good hour after but said he was excited by it the day after so confident I haven't hurt him. What I'm concerned about is how it made me feel and where those feelings were coming from - pure hate and contempt, thinking 'you utter privileged weakling to get to say no and not endure the pain and humiliation your kind has heaped on me.'
We talked about it and thought we should back pedal to just having normal sex, he suggested I should speak to rape crisis about my repressed hate. But this whole thing now feels quite fucked up.
Maybe it is. But I don't feel interested in 'normal sex'. It's like I need it to be painful and cruel in some way for me to be interested.
I haven't name changed which is perhaps unwise but I don't like to. I'd appreciate it if you could be a little kind, even if you tell me the obvious, and help me work out what is going on and how to fix myself... Is it the relationship or is it me or both?
BDSM relationships are so misunderstood.
In all fairness they are easy to misunderstand. I mean, I regularly leave bruises on my GF when she's been A Very Naughty Girl. Without context, it'd look like abuse. In context, she's a masochist and goes into an ecstatic state when restrained and administered pain. Loves it. And because it's risky play with deep emotional connection, we have to talk openly and in great detail to each other about our feelings and so on.
I'd start with asking your GP for a referral for a mental health assessment of some kind.
Yup, kisses agree with you there, easy to misconstrue.
I've been recently referred for a MH assessment with anxiety related to the abuse. They referred to cbt, the therapist diagnosed generalised anxiety disorder and is working on anxiety related to fear of uncertainty and loss of control. Not sure if I should just bring it up there? I don't think I can go back and ask for a separate referral or if the general NHS counselling would be appropriate?
You're not on my...side of things so I don't really have the experience to offer advice there. Although I suppose from this side what I can say is it is really really good that you are discussing and examining it, both with him and by yourself. This is good behaviour.
And I would recommend holding back on mentioning the BDSM, or maybe the more, I dunno, organised bit of it. Maybe just talk about "rough sex".
People are weird, they don't understand things outside of their own desires and experiences.
You need to seek counselling/therapy to deal with those feeling of hatred.
Victims of abuse can get into funny situations sexually because the boundaries were blurred so early on (I speak as a survivor) I also have issues with hatred although these are aimed at myself. My issues revolve around being objectified and secrecy.
It needs dealing with otherwise it seeps into other areas of your life, trust me, I'm struggling with it now!
I don't know. I deliberately asked this in the context of a general board and under my own name because I felt it would be helpful to me in understanding my feelings to have a general reaction. Tis important to be confronted with accusations that I might be abusing him or that I have a general hate for men because I think I'm able to think about that quite objectively and decide whether it is a reasonable thing to suggest rather than just thinking about it in my own mind by myself.
It has been helpful therefore to me to write this post in that I feel able to decide I'm not generally manhating scum, that I need to be clear with him that we need to stop this and also talk about kisses' very perceptive comment that he is topping from the bottom, which admittedly is also something I can do. Also that I may need to find an outlet to explore the extent of any repressed hurt I have. I had to squash a lot of it down because xp took me to court for contact (lasted 3 years) and so I couldn't really outwardly acknowledge the pain and had to squash it in order to be calm, controlled and reasonable in court to protect dc. Have had some counselling since but perhaps not enough.
I don't think it is all that surprising that these feelings come over you in that particular situation given your circumstance. It is kind of pushing to an area that would trigger you (I don't mean the BDSM as a whole, just this particular circumstance within it). As a fan of BDSM , in my experience it is the most caring and trusting place I can be, how can it not be by virtue of what it is? I think that by putting yourself into an area where it has triggered UNcaring thoughts you have just identified something that you probably do need to work through in your own mind before continuing, particularly with someone who is unsure of his own boundaries. I don't think there is anything 'wrong' with you.
As an aside, I am new to the boards (and have NC'd already!) but you gave me some advice the other day and I found your responses very considered and helpful. I don't think you came across as having issues with men, you came across as being a very strong individual who knows her own mind. It is absolutely the responsibility of the poster to consider all opinions within their own set of circumstances.Perhaps if one is not mature enough to take all answers knowing that the people on the other end of them can never know the full story and you can never know theirs then they are not in the right place?
I also started the road with CBT for anxiety, it didn't help a huge amount and opened a can of worms. I'm glad it did tbh but if I were you I'd be prepared for seeking 1:1 therapy
Tinsel - yes I have a big issue with being objectified which has led to me not liking to be looked at all or found attractive in any way.
In the past I have been more inclined to seek being hurt myself although not through BDSM and not in this relationship. Is complicated because physical pain is something I enjoy but have had a complicated relationship with always - self harm etc.
But yes, can see these are things which need professional expertise rather than MN. Although I'd prefer to be honest and therefore get proper relevant help even if it means people misunderstanding some of the dynamics - there is always the possibility it is me who is misunderstanding and outside perspective can help me see that sometimes.
Offred are there any specialist sex abuse/rape counseling services where you live? I think you may find a psychosexual counsellor or agency specializing in sexual abuse quicker to help you deal with the aftermath of your rape trauma than a more general counsellor.
And kudos for not NCing.
Maybe I should look into paying for some 1:1.
The CBT has been helpful with the anxiety so far and also helping me understand where I'm going wrong with trying to deal with it myself but have been told it will likely get difficult as that is to a certain extent the point.
Thanks walking that's kind of you to say.
There is a local rape counselling service I have used before yes, although their resources are quite stretched. I felt under pressure to get over it last time I used them. I think probably private counselling may be better. You think psychosexual?
Yep I'd pay private for psychosexual or holistic (not hippy holistic but person centred) therapy. They'll be no pressure to finish up although it might cost a fair bit it's a pretty good investment.
They know the right questions to ask but definitely be as open and honest as you can. I started mine with a matter of fact 'these are my issues'
Saying that although I've dealt with the abuse etc I've still not fully dealt with the impact on me in the sense that I need to feel objectified by someone which means I put myself in stupid situations. It's a long road I guess!
Certainly is a long road yes. I've looked up psychosexual in my area. Seems to be cbt based. Will look up person centred and talk to my friend who does it for advice.
Offred - sorry you're going through such a difficult and confusing time. I've always enjoyed your posts on here
I would maybe not bring this into your current therapy and finish the CBT as it is for now, unless you've only just started? And if you are in a position to, see a psychosexual therapist afterwards. Sex therapy is often quite behavioural if the problem calls for it but not always, and they will have a much better understanding of the bdsm lifestyle than an NHS counsellor who may or may not have had much experience of it before
Oh and I think integrative is generally the way forward in terms of approaches. But then I would!
Offred I imagine a couple of the reasons you didn't name change was because you wanted to hear from a wide cross section of people who've seen your posts and to gain a wide range of views from people following lots of different lifestyles.
So although I have significant reservations about BDSM relationships legitimising violence and sometimes being used by people acting out their emotional hurt and hatred under the umbrella of consent, my disclaimer is that I've never been in a BDSM relationship myself.
So I won't talk about something I don't know enough about and instead tell you what I see.
I've been on Mumsnet for years and I used to sigh with relief if I saw a post from you, especially if others were telling some poor woman she had to suck up crap behaviour from some bloke because that's what women do.
Now when I see a post from you, I don't feel like that anymore, even if my initial unease turns out to be ill-founded and your advice is warm and sensible like it always used to be.
I was thinking about this after a thread the other day where I think for the first time ever, we locked horns.
I think my unease is to do with your listening and boundaries.
I've seen you projecting quite a bit, regardless of what the OP is saying and even when your posts are unwelcome to the OP and are making her feel worse, you just won't back off even when she asks you to.
So I'm wondering whether your boundaries have become very skewed by your experiences- and whether your understandable preoccupation with what's been going on in your life is affecting your experience here and others experience of you?
I think you need some specialist help and others are better placed to advise on that, but I didn't think it was a bad suggestion upthread to step away from here for a while. I'm not sure it's helping you or everyone you respond to, right now.
If this feels too personal and close to the bone, I'm sorry. Although I admit I've been frustrated with you lately on here, I think you're one of Mumsnet's good eggs who's had a rough deal in life and you've got good motives.
Years ago I was in a BDSM relationship as the Dom. (Long term relationship, lived together). It did not awaken any repressed hatred in me, possibly because the worst things that had happened to me in my teens was emotional abuse and bullying, no physical or sexual abuse.
I found the only thing that reset my perspectives and allowed me to enjoy
consider normal sex again was several years of celibacy following two miserable rebound relationships.
But OP, be grateful this has made you see you could be helped by counselling. I always say no experience is good or bad, its all experience.
This is all about comunication isn't it?
It's ok for you both to explore, and for you to explore didfferent sides of your psyches at the same time. So long as both consent it is cool.
Where this leads you is another matter.
I have never been able to consider switching but have friends who can. I think the consent issues that are a vital ingredient of BDSM need defining between the two of you. As a Dom I recognise that the needs of the sub are placed above my own.....in many ways I can be a catalyst that simply makes the desires real....I wonder if switching for you simply opens up a personae that does not satisfy you. I hope you find the resolution that is right for you both. I also think it is very brave to open up conversations about BDSM which I realise for some are disturbing. I believe some of the very mature advice in other responses for this thread are well thought out and sincere.
I think it is very dangerous for anyone ( including myself) who is not an expert to really advise here.
But without being an expert and not being able to say I'm acquainted with you Offred via your previous posts here, all I can say is that your first post here made for uncomfortable reading.
I feel uncomfortable because it is clear you derived a lot of satisfaction- call is sexual or emotional or both- from hurting another person ( even if they did consent- but then you've said he is weak and immature anyway..)
As this satisfaction comes from previous abuse you have suffered and you are now inflicting pain on another person, then that to me screams ' You need psychiatric help'.
If you had written this as a man hurting a woman there would be a huge outcry.
I don't see this as any different and you- and your bf- are in a dangerous place.
I think you should hot foot it to your GP and ask for help - and be really honest. There is a lot of help out there for people who have been abused, so find it.
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